Melbourne Zoo Future of Melbourne Zoo 2023 (Speculation / Fantasy)

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There is an enormous body of scientific evidence that supports exhibit size increases with a decrease in stereotypic behaviour. Your personal observation may be different however.

Getting back on topic the reduction in the variety of species in the region is not going to be greatly reversed, I would say Melbourne will continue to reduced the presence of large animals they choose to house on site in the future.
 
Babirusa said:
There is an enormous body of scientific evidence that supports exhibit size increases with a decrease in stereotypic behaviour. Your personal observation may be different however.

Getting back on topic the reduction in the variety of species in the region is not going to be greatly reversed, I would say Melbourne will continue to reduced the presence of large animals they choose to house on site in the future.
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I’m hopeful WORZ will be able to accommodate those that are likely phased out of Melbourne. We all know they have the space
 
Josh F said:
I think we all need to accept the fact that animal welfare standards are continuing to encourage larger enclosures and less species. This is the new industry standard and it’s not going to revert the other way as much as we may agree or disagree with it. That is the reality.
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I don’t necessarily agree. Space may not eb reverted the other way, but with enclosure size steadying, larger species that were under a cloud of sorts may return
 
PaddyRickMFZ said:
I don’t necessarily agree. Space may not eb reverted the other way, but with enclosure size steadying, larger species that were under a cloud of sorts may return
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What do you consider a larger species under a cloud? I know a lot of the talk on this thread is about Tigers and Bears but also consider this from an ecological perspective. How do you replicate something that moves 15km plus in a day? I know that’s a slippery slope to think about but the point still stands. My personal opinion is that I wouldn’t be surprised if we see Tigers out of zoo collections in the next 20-30 years or only kept in large multi hectare open range facilities. Some of the parks in the US that run similar facilities seem to be the way to go in avoiding this issue that many have with pacing in particular. Time will tell of course but many of these large species shouldn’t have been kept in city zoos to begin with if we are being completely honest about the animal welfare and not the economics of driving people through the door. Elephants and rhinos should never have been at city zoos arguably neither should giraffe and various larger species. They are simply a hang over from a bygone era.
 
Josh F said:
What do you consider a larger species under a cloud? I know a lot of the talk on this thread is about Tigers and Bears but also consider this from an ecological perspective. How do you replicate something that moves 15km plus in a day? I know that’s a slippery slope to think about but the point still stands. My personal opinion is that I wouldn’t be surprised if we see Tigers out of zoo collections in the next 20-30 years or only kept in large multi hectare open range facilities. Some of the parks in the US that run similar facilities seem to be the way to go in avoiding this issue that many have with pacing in particular. Time will tell of course but many of these large species shouldn’t have been kept in city zoos to begin with if we are being completely honest about the animal welfare and not the economics of driving people through the door. Elephants and rhinos should never have been at city zoos arguably neither should giraffe and various larger species. They are simply a hang over from a bygone era.
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The thing to consider is do big cats travel kilometres each day/night for any other reason than to seek out food or mates?

African lions sleep an average of 20 hours a day since it’s considered wasteful to expend energy on unnecessary locomotion. When provided with adequate nutrition within a captive environment, it’s apparent lions are content to sunbath in their exhibits without any obvious signs of boredom or distress.

Consigning all zoological megafauna to a bygone era is a slippery slope. Cetaceans have disappeared from the majority of our zoos and aquariums; elephants in city zoos are following. These phase outs were decisions made on logic I don’t necessarily disagree with, but phase out big cats, bears, great apes etc. and even the general public won’t bother going to the zoo.
 
I wouldn’t be surprised if our zoos become more native species focussed whether dedicated zoochatters are a fan of that or not that’s each to your own. We have more than enough endangered species and even just native species to begin with that an incredibly diverse collection could be held by many zoos based on this method alone.

I am not saying all megafauna will go but what I am saying is don’t be surprised if quite a few of them do. Particularly the ones that exhibit stereotypical behaviours that from a public perspective and animal welfare perspective are less than ideal.
 
Zoofan15 said:
The thing to consider is do big cats travel kilometres each day/night for any other reason than to seek out food or mates?

African lions sleep an average of 20 hours a day since it’s considered wasteful to expend energy on unnecessary locomotion. When provided with adequate nutrition within a captive environment, it’s apparent lions are content to sunbath in their exhibits without any obvious signs of boredom or distress.

Consigning all zoological megafauna to a bygone era is a slippery slope. Cetaceans have disappeared from the majority of our zoos and aquariums; elephants in city zoos are following. These phase outs were decisions made on logic I don’t necessarily disagree with, but phase out big cats, bears, great apes etc. and even the general public won’t bother going to the zoo.
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They don't need to travel these distances daily but it is what they evolved to do, that biological drive doesn't stop when they are captive, there is a strong correlation between the presentation of stereotypic behaviour and territory size in carnivores, lions however do adapt to captivity far better than tigers do.

It is a new reality that a larger number of species cannot be kept in traditional zoo enclosures and they will be phased out and only held in larger open range spaces. Most bears have already been phased out in Australia and I agree tigers seem to be the next species to head that way too, as the knowledge and husbandry practises continue to improve there will be a great number of animals disappear from zoos and the general public is going to have to accept that they will not see a lot of what you'd expect a zoo too have.
 
Babirusa said:
They don't need to travel these distances daily but it is what they evolved to do, that biological drive doesn't stop when they are captive, there is a strong correlation between the presentation of stereotypic behaviour and territory size in carnivores, lions however do adapt to captivity far better than tigers do.

It is a new reality that a larger number of species cannot be kept in traditional zoo enclosures and they will be phased out and only held in larger open range spaces. Most bears have already been phased out in Australia and I agree tigers seem to be the next species to head that way too, as the knowledge and husbandry practises continue to improve there will be a great number of animals disappear from zoos and the general public is going to have to accept that they will not see a lot of what you'd expect a zoo too have.
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If Sumatran Tiger were to phase out of MZ, I am confident it would be to transfer to WORZ, where I could envisage tiger-walking paths for the tiger winding around the Waterhole and Elephant trail, with potentially that area becoming a proper SE Asian area, instead of an African elephant stand-in.
 
The Sleepy Hippo said:
If Sumatran Tiger were to phase out of MZ, I am confident it would be to transfer to WORZ, where I could envisage tiger-walking paths for the tiger winding around the Waterhole and Elephant trail, with potentially that area becoming a proper SE Asian area, instead of an African elephant stand-in.
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There’s a lot of potential here. The two city zoos with Sumatran tiger complex; and the third and fourth planning to build them will each have three exhibits, but as we’ve seen at Taronga, this has little effect on breeding recommendations, when the tigers are over represented.

Werribee could build a complex considering of six or more exhibits - allowing them to breed regularly and rotate the tigers through a series of exhibits (as they plan to do with the elephants).

I’ve long been of the opinion Werribee are foolish not to diversify into other continents besides Africa. Australia can’t import the variety of African species needed to make an African zoo comparable to anything of note on the world stage - so Werribee’s options are either go massive (like Monarto) or diversify (like Dubbo).
 
The Sleepy Hippo said:
Por qué no los dos?
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I wish they would.

With the exception of the elephant complex, we haven’t seen a lot of ambition from Zoos Victoria with regards to developing Werribee:

While Monarto have the largest lion exhibit in the region, Werribee’s current facilities don’t allow more than one lioness to breed at a time.

Orana, Monarto and Dubbo all accomodate breeding herds of giraffe; Werribee have a small bachelor herd.

Orana, Monarto and Dubbo are building facilities to accomodate a mass import of Southern white rhinoceros; with no participation from Werribee. Dubbo also breeds Indian rhinoceros and black rhinoceros.

I’ll also add Orana and Monarto lack the government funding Werribee receives.
 
Zoofan15 said:
I wish they would.

With the exception of the elephant complex, we haven’t seen a lot of ambition from Zoos Victoria with regards to developing Werribee:

While Monarto have the largest lion exhibit in the region, Werribee’s current facilities don’t allow more than one lioness to breed at a time.

Orana, Monarto and Dubbo all accomodate breeding herds of giraffe; Werribee have a small bachelor herd.

Orana, Monarto and Dubbo are building facilities to accomodate a mass import of Southern white rhinoceros; with no participation from Werribee. Dubbo also breeds Indian rhinoceros and black rhinoceros.

I’ll also add Orana and Monarto lack the government funding Werribee receives.
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I would choose scale and diversity. Having seen many of Werribee's animals in the wild, and now finally having been to Monarto, I must say that Monarto's lion enclosure was the first time I've felt anywhere near the same feeling as seeing wild lions.
 
The Sleepy Hippo said:
I would choose scale and diversity. Having seen many of Werribee's animals in the wild, and now finally having been to Monarto, I must say that Monarto's lion enclosure was the first time I've felt anywhere near the same feeling as seeing wild lions.
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The elephant complex will be the single biggest project in the region. My hope is Zoos Victoria see it as a springboard to other projects of a similar scale (like a large tiger complex), rather than an accomplishment to ride for decades.

I accept funding isn’t infinite, but I’d like to think certainly within the decade we’ll see a second project notable enough to put them on the world stage. Monarto has now completed several such projects.
 
Foreshadowing Exotic Phase Outs (2006)

I came across this interesting article from 2006, which foreshadows the rampant phase outs seen across Australian zoos:

Exotic extinction looms in zoos

Say goodbye to the African elephant, the black rhinoceros and jaguar, for sure. Possibly to the leopard, the polar bear and hippopotamus as well. Most exotic mammals in Australia's zoos are headed for local extinction.

The number of foreign species that the public can see will start to shrink from 127 mammals to as few as 31 in years to come, a survey of the zoos has found.

Their survey, Going, Going Gone. A zoo without exotic mammals? was conducted for the Australasian Regional Association of Zoological Parks and Aquaria. The alarming change it shows includes the loss of 30 out of the 46 different primates - monkeys and their relatives. There would be only eight carnivore species left out of 31 now, and even open-range zoos face a crisis in African hoofed animals such as the hippo.

"The majority of exotic mammal species in our collections are spiralling down a 'tunnel' of extinction, which, depending on the average lifespan of individual specimens is anticipated during the next five to 15 years."
 
Tbqh, I don't see the big cats being phased out of city zoos outside of those that are particularly small.

As for megafauna, I feel that there are plenty of city zoos like Houston and Dublin that have provided them with excellent homes whereas others like Melbourne are making the right decision in moving them to an open sister zoo. Especially elephants and giraffes as they're big AND social.
 
tigris115 said:
Tbqh, I don't see the big cats being phased out of city zoos outside of those that are particularly small.

As for megafauna, I feel that there are plenty of city zoos like Houston and Dublin that have provided them with excellent homes whereas others like Melbourne are making the right decision in moving them to an open sister zoo. Especially elephants and giraffes as they're big AND social.
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I find it difficult to imagine also. African lions, Sumatran tigers and Snow leopards are too enabling and along with the Western lowland gorillas, the bread and butter of Melbourne Zoo. Transferring out the elephants is a progressive move, but an absence which won’t go unnoticed by the general public. It will be a while before Zoos Victoria will consider letting something else high profile go from Melbourne.

I agree with you on giraffes. A number of us hope Melbourne will phase them (and zebra) out for Okapi and Eastern bongo long term; but Adelaide have disappointingly scrapped plans for a gorilla complex to accomodate a Savannah exhibit featuring giraffe - and it appears Zoos Victoria are similarly under the impression Melbourne can’t do without them.
 
Zoofan15 said:
I find it difficult to imagine also. African lions, Sumatran tigers and Snow leopards are too enabling and along with the Western lowland gorillas, the bread and butter of Melbourne Zoo. Transferring out the elephants is a progressive move, but an absence which won’t go unnoticed by the general public. It will be a while before Zoos Victoria will consider letting something else high profile go from Melbourne.

I agree with you on giraffes. A number of us hope Melbourne will phase them (and zebra) out for Okapi and Eastern bongo long term; but Adelaide have disappointingly scrapped plans for a gorilla complex to accomodate a Savannah exhibit featuring giraffe - and it appears Zoos Victoria are similarly under the impression Melbourne can’t do without them.
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I think if you ask many visitors I think you’ll find Giraffes are not a make or break species. An okapi would have similar success, but gorillas, bears and big cats are simply unrivalled in terms of visitor appeal and will more than certainly be noticed. Elephants are an obvious one but the fact that they are moving to WORZ is enough for many visitors to feel content
 
PaddyRickMFZ said:
I think if you ask many visitors I think you’ll find Giraffes are not a make or break species. An okapi would have similar success, but gorillas, bears and big cats are simply unrivalled in terms of visitor appeal and will more than certainly be noticed. Elephants are an obvious one but the fact that they are moving to WORZ is enough for many visitors to feel content
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That’s the impression I get. A giraffe calf is an attraction and I don’t doubt in the second half of the 20th Century when both Taronga and Melbourne were producing giraffe calves in large numbers, their respective exhibits drew crowds of people; but small non breeding herds or herds producing a calf every 2-3 years have had their day (and do little to engage visitors).

The Okapi is the great unknown. We’ve never had them in the region before, but it’s difficult to say if that novelty would be lost on the average visitor.

Big cats, bears, great apes and elephants will always be the main attractions of any zoo. They’re throughly ingrained in pop culture and for good reason. They’re charismatic, entertaining and evoke a connection with the visitor.
 
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