Melbourne Zoo Future of Melbourne Zoo 2023 (Speculation / Fantasy)

[Jambo]

{Note from mods - this thread continues from here: Future of Melbourne Zoo 2022 (Speculation / Fantasy) [Melbourne Zoo]}





A look ahead into 2023:

Here’s a list of the potential births/transfers that might occur in 2023.

Potential births:

Kimya the Western Lowland Gorilla - Has been given the recommendation to breed with Otana. Hasn’t successfully conceived since this recommendation was given (its been a few years now), but fingers crossed she’ll fall pregnant soon (if not already).

Isobella the Spider Monkey - Should conceive again soon, last giving birth almost three years ago now.

Bonito and Mushu the Emperor Tamarins - A new pairing; fingers crossed this pair can successfully breed asap.

Wombats - A male (Kipp) was imported early 2021 for breeding with Melbourne’s trio of girls. No successful births yet, but hopefully we’ll have our first this year.

Little Penguins - It was hatching season during my last visit a few months ago, so potentially we may have some little chicks now come the end of summer.

Potential Transfers:

New male White Cheeked Gibbon / entire new pair - Since Jin Huan’s departure to Tasmania, Li Lian will need to be re-paired. Another alternative though, is for Li Lian also to be sent elsewhere (Rockhampton potentially as a non breeding pair?); leaving Melbourne to import an entire new pair. They have been extending their current enclosure, hopefully to allow space for breeding.

Black and White Colobus - Unless Melbourne elects to phase out this species, a mate may be sourced for Kipenzi. This could go either way though and this could also be a departure if Melbourne chooses to send Kipenzi to another facility.

Male Hamadryads Baboons - With extensions to the current back of house area being completed, Melbourne may finally look to commence breeding again, and source some new males (sending their current males into a bachelor group elsewhere).

Asian Short Clawed Otter pups - They could potentially be sent elsewhere, to allow their parents to breed once again. Kyabram is looking to hold otters, so Melbourne’s young quartet may be the best option for them.

Asha and Manju, Snow Leopards - This pair will be sent to Wellington in Autumn, potentially allowing Melbourne’s pair to breed again, although a keeper mentioned this won’t be for at least another year or two.

 

[Grant Rhino]

A look ahead into 2023:

Here’s a list of the potential births/transfers that might occur in 2023.

Potential births:

Kimya the Western Lowland Gorilla - Has been given the recommendation to breed with Otana. Hasn’t successfully conceived since this recommendation was given (its been a few years now), but fingers crossed she’ll fall pregnant soon (if not already).

Isobella the Spider Monkey - Should conceive again soon, last giving birth almost three years ago now.

Bonito and Mushu the Emperor Tamarins - A new pairing; fingers crossed this pair can successfully breed asap.

Wombats - A male (Kipp) was imported early 2021 for breeding with Melbourne’s trio of girls. No successful births yet, but hopefully we’ll have our first this year.

Little Penguins - It was hatching season during my last visit a few months ago, so potentially we may have some little chicks now come the end of summer.

Potential Transfers:

New male White Cheeked Gibbon / entire new pair - Since Jin Huan’s departure to Tasmania, Li Lian will need to be re-paired. Another alternative though, is for Li Lian also to be sent elsewhere (Rockhampton potentially as a non breeding pair?); leaving Melbourne to import an entire new pair. They have been extending their current enclosure, hopefully to allow space for breeding.

Black and White Colobus - Unless Melbourne elects to phase out this species, a mate may be sourced for Kipenzi. This could go either way though and this could also be a departure if Melbourne chooses to send Kipenzi to another facility.

Male Hamadryads Baboons - With extensions to the current back of house area being completed, Melbourne may finally look to commence breeding again, and source some new males (sending their current males into a bachelor group elsewhere).

Asian Short Clawed Otter pups - They could potentially be sent elsewhere, to allow their parents to breed once again. Kyabram is looking to hold otters, so Melbourne’s young quartet may be the best option for them.

Asha and Manju, Snow Leopards - This pair will be sent to Wellington in Autumn, potentially allowing Melbourne’s pair to breed again, although a keeper mentioned this won’t be for at least another year or two.

All of these sound likely: Sending the otter pups to Kyambram should be a no-brainer, and the snow leopards to Wellington is a done deal already as we all know. The gibbon and baboon comments seem logical too.

I'm surprised they will wait a year or two to breed the snow leopards again though - did the keeper say why they won't do it immediately by any chance?

I've got some more speculations and questions I will add in:

Possible Colobus headquarters: I was at MZ a few days ago and I had the idea that the area between the giraffes/zebras and the baboons could be turned into an enclosure with a moat for the colobus - even if it was done as an island exhibit. The alternative is to turn the tapir enclosure into a colobus island enclosure since the water moat is already there. I don't think either of these will happen, but it makes sense to move the colobus to an area with other African species.

Cotton Top Tamarin question: Are there only a pair of cotton top tamarins on display at the moment? I thought they had a family of approx 6 of them (parents + kids). However I've been to the zoo at least 3 times in the last few weeks and there only seem to be 2 on display. Have the kids moved out? Are the parents going to breed again soon?

Elephants out, hotel in: I've heard nothing on the grapevine, but after thinking for a while about what MZ will do with the elephant exhibit after the elephants leave in 2024, I think the most likely scenario is that the area will be turned into a hotel: Canberra, Werribee and Monarto already have accommodation in the zoo so I suspect Melbourne will do the same. I can't think of any particularly suitable species that works with the elephant enclosure (except perhaps Indian rhinos), so I suspect that at least part of the elephant exhibit will become a hotel. Perhaps around the hotel there could be some smaller species displayed - such as tamarins, marmosets, fennec fox, meerkats, birds, reptiles etc....

Future of the treetop monkey area: I don't think anything will happen with this in 2023, but it will be really interesting to see what happens to these enclosures going forward. As has been mentioned they seem to be expanding the size of these enclosures and linking them up etc - but then there hasn't really been anything major happen in this area either. I really have no idea what will happen there.

Coatis future at MZ and their enclosure: If there are only 2 elderly female coatis left at MZ, then they will have to either import some more or phase out the species. If they choose the first option then "nothing to see here", but if they choose the second option then what will happen to the coati enclosure? A large group of squirrel monkeys could be a nice fit, but then that doesn't really suit the "predator prey" area - unless you market them as predators (or insects, small reptiles, birds, eggs and small mammals). Watch this space...

Thoughts???

 

[Zoofan15]

I'm surprised they will wait a year or two to breed the snow leopards again though - did the keeper say why they won't do it immediately by any chance?

Regionally speaking, it’d be difficult to place any cubs at this point in time. I’m not aware of any additional facilities wanting to hold this species at this point in time and the two new holders (Tasmania Zoo and Wellington Zoo) will have full siblings of the next litter, so won’t want additional cubs for breeding - Wellington will be non breeding anyway on that note.

Billabong represent the best chance for placing cubs in the future. They have two males (born 2003 and 2005), but they require seperate housing and I doubt they’d be interested in acquiring more until they pass. This will be within the next few years, which will tie in well with Melbourne breeding again.

Melbourne have accommodated cubs from the last litter for the past three years, so theoretically could do so again once they have a long term plan locked in (i.e. Billabong reaffirms interest).

 

[dylan downward]

All of these sound likely: Sending the otter pups to Kyambram should be a no-brainer, and the snow leopards to Wellington is a done deal already as we all know. The gibbon and baboon comments seem logical too.

I'm surprised they will wait a year or two to breed the snow leopards again though - did the keeper say why they won't do it immediately by any chance?

I've got some more speculations and questions I will add in:

Possible Colobus headquarters: I was at MZ a few days ago and I had the idea that the area between the giraffes/zebras and the baboons could be turned into an enclosure with a moat for the colobus - even if it was done as an island exhibit. The alternative is to turn the tapir enclosure into a colobus island enclosure since the water moat is already there. I don't think either of these will happen, but it makes sense to move the colobus to an area with other African species.

Cotton Top Tamarin question: Are there only a pair of cotton top tamarins on display at the moment? I thought they had a family of approx 6 of them (parents + kids). However I've been to the zoo at least 3 times in the last few weeks and there only seem to be 2 on display. Have the kids moved out? Are the parents going to breed again soon?

Elephants out, hotel in: I've heard nothing on the grapevine, but after thinking for a while about what MZ will do with the elephant exhibit after the elephants leave in 2024, I think the most likely scenario is that the area will be turned into a hotel: Canberra, Werribee and Monarto already have accommodation in the zoo so I suspect Melbourne will do the same. I can't think of any particularly suitable species that works with the elephant enclosure (except perhaps Indian rhinos), so I suspect that at least part of the elephant exhibit will become a hotel. Perhaps around the hotel there could be some smaller species displayed - such as tamarins, marmosets, fennec fox, meerkats, birds, reptiles etc....

Future of the treetop monkey area: I don't think anything will happen with this in 2023, but it will be really interesting to see what happens to these enclosures going forward. As has been mentioned they seem to be expanding the size of these enclosures and linking them up etc - but then there hasn't really been anything major happen in this area either. I really have no idea what will happen there.

Coatis future at MZ and their enclosure: If there are only 2 elderly female coatis left at MZ, then they will have to either import some more or phase out the species. If they choose the first option then "nothing to see here", but if they choose the second option then what will happen to the coati enclosure? A large group of squirrel monkeys could be a nice fit, but then that doesn't really suit the "predator prey" area - unless you market them as predators (or insects, small reptiles, birds, eggs and small mammals). Watch this space...

Thoughts???

If the coatis do get phased out I think it could definitely fit perfect for a red panda exhibit which could work into breeding them

and I think otters moving to Kyabram would be great for both places with Kyabram getting a new species and Melbourne having room for future breeding

 

[Zoofan15]

Coatis future at MZ and their enclosure: If there are only 2 elderly female coatis left at MZ, then they will have to either import some more or phase out the species. If they choose the first option then "nothing to see here", but if they choose the second option then what will happen to the coati enclosure? A large group of squirrel monkeys could be a nice fit, but then that doesn't really suit the "predator prey" area - unless you market them as predators (or insects, small reptiles, birds, eggs and small mammals). Watch this space...

I’m under the impression this species will be phased out regionally. They’re subject to restrictions in Europe re. breeding and in Tasmania, so it wouldn’t surprise me to see other regions of Australia follow suit. Either way, it seems like the region has long lost interest in coatis.

It’s a shame as they added a South American species to the predator precinct. Though the exhibit space isn’t huge, with extensive modifications they could accomodate either Caracal or Clouded leopard. Both species are experiencing a surge of interest in the region and are well suited to a city zoo. Due to the proximity to apex predators, the latter would unlikely breed, but a non breeding display pair would support the region nonetheless.

Elephants out, hotel in: I've heard nothing on the grapevine, but after thinking for a while about what MZ will do with the elephant exhibit after the elephants leave in 2024, I think the most likely scenario is that the area will be turned into a hotel: Canberra, Werribee and Monarto already have accommodation in the zoo so I suspect Melbourne will do the same. I can't think of any particularly suitable species that works with the elephant enclosure (except perhaps Indian rhinos), so I suspect that at least part of the elephant exhibit will become a hotel. Perhaps around the hotel there could be some smaller species displayed - such as tamarins, marmosets, fennec fox, meerkats, birds, reptiles etc...

Wow, interesting thought. I hadn’t even considered this! I feel like Werribee would be the more likely location given it’s an African themed open range zoo. It’s only 45 minutes away and Melbourne Zoo is close to a range of accomodation, so not sure the uptake (even internationally) would make it viable without the appeal of an open range Safari theme.

Time will tell, but Zoos Victoria would be wise to acknowledge they’re phasing out a high profile species from Melbourne Zoo (which has already suffered rampant phase outs) and Victorians will be expecting something exciting in their place.

 

[dylan downward]

Regionally speaking, it’d be difficult to place any cubs at this point in time. I’m not aware of any additional facilities wanting to hold this species at this point in time and the two new holders (Tasmania Zoo and Wellington Zoo) will have full siblings of the next litter, so won’t want additional cubs for breeding - Wellington will be non breeding anyway on that note.

Billabong represent the best chance for placing cubs in the future. They have two males (born 2003 and 2005), but they require seperate housing and I doubt they’d be interested in acquiring more until they pass. This will be within the next few years, which will tie in well with Melbourne breeding again.

Melbourne have accommodated cubs from the last litter for the past three years, so theoretically could do so again once they have a long term plan locked in (i.e. Billabong reaffirms interest).

Melbourne have several off display areas which would beable to hold them for short period of time

 

[Grant Rhino]

If the coatis do get phased out I think it could definitely fit perfect for a red panda exhibit which could work into breeding them

I can't believe that I didn't think of this! It would be a good exhibit for viewing red pandas - but do the red pandas themselves need higher trees or is that just something they like rather than require?

 

[Zoofan15]

Melbourne have several off display areas which would beable to hold them for short period of time

That’s true and I think with a long term commitment from another facility in acquiring them once they reach adolescence/young adulthood would give them the confidence to breed another litter.

Long term, they don’t want to be stuck with up to four surplus Snow leopards (litter size is 1-4 cubs) that will be taking up space. If held off display as adults, they’d do nothing to enhance visitation.

 

[Jambo]

I'm surprised they will wait a year or two to breed the snow leopards again though - did the keeper say why they won't do it immediately by any chance?

Unfortunately the keeper didn’t say exactly why- but I’d imagine it would have to do with the lack of space our region has for them; with only three other holders atm. Billabong could potentially hold surplus down the line, but this will still be a few years down the line.

I was at MZ a few days ago and I had the idea that the area between the giraffes/zebras and the baboons could be turned into an enclosure with a moat for the colobus - even if it was done as an island exhibit. The alternative is to turn the tapir enclosure into a colobus island enclosure since the water moat is already there. I don't think either of these will happen, but it makes sense to move the colobus to an area with other African species.

That sounds like a good idea. Unfortunately the treetop enclosures are a little small for Colobus breeding, so if Melbourne wish to continue with this species, they’ll need a new enclosure (outside of the treetops). The area in between the giraffes and baboons is a good choice; there’s already a little moat there, but I think they’d need to use netting to maximise the space available for them.

Are there only a pair of cotton top tamarins on display at the moment? I thought they had a family of approx 6 of them (parents + kids). However I've been to the zoo at least 3 times in the last few weeks and there only seem to be 2 on display. Have the kids moved out? Are the parents going to breed again soon?

Yes they had seven of them, but I’ve also noticed only the breeding pair on my last few visits. The children have potentially been transferred elsewhere, but may have even moved off display in the meantime before being sent to Kyrabum (who have interest in obtaining them too).

I've heard nothing on the grapevine, but after thinking for a while about what MZ will do with the elephant exhibit after the elephants leave in 2024, I think the most likely scenario is that the area will be turned into a hotel: Canberra, Werribee and Monarto already have accommodation in the zoo so I suspect Melbourne will do the same. I can't think of any particularly suitable species that works with the elephant enclosure (except perhaps Indian rhinos), so I suspect that at least part of the elephant exhibit will become a hotel. Perhaps around the hotel there could be some smaller species displayed - such as tamarins, marmosets, fennec fox, meerkats, birds, reptiles etc....

A hotels an interesting idea; but I feel Zoos Vic would be more likely to undertake such a project at Werribee (where they have the space). I was told multiple species would potentially move into the current trail of elephants; but it’s still undecided. Management may have a few ideas they’re toying with but an official decision is yet to come.

area: I don't think anything will happen with this in 2023, but it will be really interesting to see what happens to these enclosures going forward. As has been mentioned they seem to be expanding the size of these enclosures and linking them up etc - but then there hasn't really been anything major happen in this area either. I really have no idea what will happen there.

Re. The treetops, I don’t know too. The enclosures are small for some of the larger monkey species, but do suit the smaller species (like Tamarins well). They were expanding the WC Gibbon enclosure during my last visit, but it’s still not giant anyhow. I feel they’d be more suited to the island in the Japanese Gardens.

If there are only 2 elderly female coatis left at MZ, then they will have to either import some more or phase out the species. If they choose the first option then "nothing to see here", but if they choose the second option then what will happen to the coati enclosure? A large group of squirrel monkeys could be a nice fit, but then that doesn't really suit the "predator prey" area - unless you market them as predators (or insects, small reptiles, birds, eggs and small mammals). Watch this space...

It’ll be interesting to see if Melbourne actually do plan to continue with Coati or phase them out. Hopefully they keep them- but if not, Red Pandas could easily suit that enclosure. I’d like to see a species of Eagle (which would diversify the Carnivores area which lacks any bird species). Wedge Tailed Eagles a possibility; I know they have them at Healesville. They could easily send one over, which could also be used as an ambassador animal at the same time.

 

[dylan downward]

I can't believe that I didn't think of this! It would be a good exhibit for viewing red pandas - but do the red pandas themselves need higher trees or is that just something they like rather than require?

I seen several parks that had low areas for climbing like that exhibit halls gap zoo being one of them

 

[Jambo]

I can't believe that I didn't think of this! It would be a good exhibit for viewing red pandas - but do the red pandas themselves need higher trees or is that just something they like rather than require?

It’s not an absolute requirement, and the Coati enclosure still offers reasonable climbing opportunities, so would be suitable for Red Panda imo.

 

[Zoofan15]

I can't believe that I didn't think of this! It would be a good exhibit for viewing red pandas - but do the red pandas themselves need higher trees or is that just something they like rather than require?

It’s something they like (being an arboreal species that spends most of their lives in trees), but it’s by no means essential. Wellington Zoo previously housed their red pandas (which bred very successfully) in a covered exhibit with raised platforms instead of trees; and Hamilton Zoo once had a secondary exhibit of a similar description.

A small felid would be a better fit, but red pandas would certainly work.

 

[dylan downward]

It’s not an absolute requirement, and the Coati enclosure still offers reasonable climbing opportunities, so would be suitable for Red Panda imo.

Could also be a chance to bring in a breeding pair to

 

[dylan downward]

It’s something they like (being an arboreal species that spends most of their lives in trees), but it’s by no means essential. Wellington Zoo previously housed their red pandas (which bred very successfully) in a covered exhibit with raised platforms instead of trees; and Hamilton Zoo once had a secondary exhibit of a similar description.

A small felid would be a better fit, but red pandas would certainly work.

Servals or fishing cats could be a good option

 

[Jambo]

Could also be a chance to bring in a breeding pair to

The enclosure would probably be used to hold surplus cubs who can be held together; with the main breeding pair residing in the current enclosures. The Coati enclosure is a single enclosure, so would mean the pair would have to rotate on and off display.

 

[Zoofan15]

Servals or fishing cats could be a good option

Serval hands down would be the best option. Hamilton’s Fishing cats are never seen and rank low from an engagement perspective. Serval are confident felids and are experiencing a surge of interest in the region, with a few kittens born in recent years. I think they’d be a nice compliment to the African lions, especially with the African wild dogs phasing out to be replaced with Dingo.

 

[dylan downward]

Serval hands down would be the best option. Hamilton’s Fishing cats are never seen and rank low from an engagement perspective. Serval are confident felids and are experiencing a surge of interest in the region, with a few kittens born in recent years. I think they’d be a nice compliment to the African lions, especially with the African wild dogs phasing out to be replaced with Dingo.

Would definitely be great if they did bring them back

 

[Grant Rhino]

Though the exhibit space isn’t huge, with extensive modifications they could accomodate either Caracal or Clouded leopard. Both species are experiencing a surge of interest in the region and are well suited to a city zoo. Due to the proximity to apex predators, the latter would unlikely breed, but a non breeding display pair would support the region nonetheless.

Hmmmm, there are some pros and cons to both here:

Clouded Leopard would be brilliant here in this precinct - but I feel that the enclosure just isn't really big enough. That said, it could be extended upwards perhaps. It's hard to get a great comparison - but from memory the enclosure in Point Defiance Zoo (in the USA) wasn't much bigger than the coati enclosure and that zoo specialises in clouded leopards. I think they would be an awesome species to display though!

Caracal would be the right size for the enclosure, but they are a bit "yeah nah". I'd rather something a bit more exciting - unless they found a way to emphasize the fact that they catch birds in flight.... but they can't exactly release live chooks in the enclosure for them to catch!

Caracal would fit in better at Werribee in my opinion - they could then even incorporate them into the serval show (rotate them with servals in the show or even a rotating exhibit). There is something to work with there....

One from left field: Eurasian Lynx: suits the cold climate of Melbourne, looks good aesthetically next to the snow leopards. They would have to import them but that can't be difficult....

The current cats in the precinct are lions, tigers and snow leopards - so a 4th smaller cat species would have to be marketable in its own way...

The more I think about this, the more curious I'm getting about that enclosure!

 

[dylan downward]

Hmmmm, there are some pros and cons to both here:

Clouded Leopard would be brilliant here in this precinct - but I feel that the enclosure just isn't really big enough. That said, it could be extended upwards perhaps. It's hard to get a great comparison - but from memory the enclosure in Point Defiance Zoo (in the USA) wasn't much bigger than the coati enclosure and that zoo specialises in clouded leopards. I think they would be an awesome species to display though!

Caracal would be the right size for the enclosure, but they are a bit "yeah nah". I'd rather something a bit more exciting - unless they found a way to emphasize the fact that they catch birds in flight.... but they can't exactly release live chooks in the enclosure for them to catch!

Caracal would fit in better at Werribee in my opinion - they could then even incorporate them into the serval show (rotate them with servals in the show or even a rotating exhibit). There is something to work with there....

One from left field: Eurasian Lynx: suits the cold climate of Melbourne, looks good aesthetically next to the snow leopards. They would have to import them but that can't be difficult....

The current cats in the precinct are lions, tigers and snow leopards - so a 4th smaller cat species would have to be marketable in its own way...

The more I think about this, the more curious I'm getting about that enclosure!

I think Melbourne definitely need more cat species in the zoo

 

[Zoofan15]

Hmmmm, there are some pros and cons to both here:

Clouded Leopard would be brilliant here in this precinct - but I feel that the enclosure just isn't really big enough. That said, it could be extended upwards perhaps. It's hard to get a great comparison - but from memory the enclosure in Point Defiance Zoo (in the USA) wasn't much bigger than the coati enclosure and that zoo specialises in clouded leopards. I think they would be an awesome species to display though!

Caracal would be the right size for the enclosure, but they are a bit "yeah nah". I'd rather something a bit more exciting - unless they found a way to emphasize the fact that they catch birds in flight.... but they can't exactly release live chooks in the enclosure for them to catch!

Caracal would fit in better at Werribee in my opinion - they could then even incorporate them into the serval show (rotate them with servals in the show or even a rotating exhibit). There is something to work with there....

One from left field: Eurasian Lynx: suits the cold climate of Melbourne, looks good aesthetically next to the snow leopards. They would have to import them but that can't be difficult....

The current cats in the precinct are lions, tigers and snow leopards - so a 4th smaller cat species would have to be marketable in its own way...

The more I think about this, the more curious I'm getting about that enclosure!

I think Melbourne definitely need more cat species in the zoo

You’ve given my an idea with extending upwards. Like many felids, Clouded leopard thrive when housed in exhibits that allow them to look down on visitors. Even an extensive platform system would accomodate a non breeding pair within a relatively small space.

It’d be exciting to see Eurasian lynx (or any new species), but I think it’s more likely they’ll acquire a species already in the region - considering we already have Serval, Caracal, Fishing cat and Clouded leopard.