PaddyRickMFZ
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Bigger than I thought ngl. Both combined is quite a lot of space
Melbourne Zoo Future of Melbourne Zoo 2023 (Speculation / Fantasy)
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austrlain zoo gower
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Yeah
There must be a decent tapir behind the scenes because at one point they house a male Brazilian tapir and the current tapir does anyone have the dimensions or planing for the exibit and when was it build
Is there planning map and info about tree top monkey and apes as I can’t find one anywhere
Any maps for exibits would be appreciated or plans
There must be a decent tapir behind the scenes because at one point they house a male Brazilian tapir and the current tapir does anyone have the dimensions or planing for the exibit and when was it build
Is there planning map and info about tree top monkey and apes as I can’t find one anywhere
Any maps for exibits would be appreciated or plans
PaddyRickMFZ
Well-Known Member
I kinda forgot about Arturo. Wishful thinking again but Melbourne containing both Brazilian and Malayan Tapir in decent sizes would be great for regional breeding
Those Peccary exhibits are not entirely accurate. The main Peccary exhibit sort of loops off left for a bit before coming up to two smaller exhibits as seen in the design. These exhibits are tiny, and are merely holding areas (for size reference, they wouldn't be much bigger than an average bedroom). Then, there's the main off display exhibit which is similar in size to the main exhibit and has a sort of hill in the middle with cactuses ect. This exhibit can be seen from both the Peccary and Tapir exhibits if you look close enough.
There is no off display Tapir enclosure; Semangka was previously held in an enclosure around where the Tasmanian Devils are now in the Carnivores trail. That enclosure I believe was the former Maned Wolf enclosure but my memory is fuzzy on that one. It was off display for a while.
The current Tapir enclosure was initially used for Bison/Banteng back in the day afaik. Not sure if it's been redesigned over the years, but that location was roughly where the Bison/Banteng paddocks were in the 90's.
PaddyRickMFZ
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I take it there is no chance of a Banteng return at either Melbourne or Werribee if they were phased out?
Melbourne won't reacquire Maned Wolves. As we've previously talked about, they don't fit at least two categories.
Another thing to mention; I was talking to a keeper a few years ago and she informed me that the exhibits in Carnivores trail weren't individually designed for a specific species, allowing a species to be able to easily replaced if it comes to that sort of situation. You can really see how the Snow Leopard/Tiger exhibits are very flexible species wise. Indrah could very well spend time in both Snow Leopard exhibits; and likewise other carnivore species, Lions, Leopards, Bears ect. all could seemingly fit any of the enclosures.
I would have *hoped* Melbourne would've used this initiative to rotate the animals across habitats, which would be incredibly enriching both for them and us too as visitors (never being able to expect what we're going to see at any given time!).
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Nope, and they also only fit into one of Zoos Vic's categories, which would explain their decision to phase them out.
PaddyRickMFZ
Well-Known Member
I know it’s a bit off topic, but I couldn’t find a thread for it, why did Werribee phase out the Addax? Unfortunate Maned Wolf won’t return, but maybe they could be an ambassador for roadkill or smn, like the Aussie animals often are. And could Banteng not be Ambassador, Enabler(children,farms) and recovery?
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I don't think any of us know why Werribee are phasing out their Addax. They were doing so well with them, breeding wise.
I wouldn't consider Banteng as an enabling species nor an ambassador, but they could potentially be an ark species, being endangered.
PaddyRickMFZ
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I
I figured that children would be drawn to them, as they resemble cattle, and they could be an ambassador for deforestation or poaching. Despite this, I am resigned to the fact that they are relatively certain to never return. Maned Wolf and Banteng are 2 more interesting species Melbourne chose to phase out. I thought they were doing great with Addax too tbh, but apparently they on have 2 males left
Werribee did indeed have quite a successful breeding group, but I believe they may have phased them out, sending their females to either Monarto or Dubbo.
It's really interesting as they're an endangered species but I'd assume this was a move purely based on getting most of the regional stock all together at one facility to increase breeding.
PaddyRickMFZ
Well-Known Member
That makes sense
Let's use the Zoos Victoria criteria list on these species:
Recovery: Addax and Oryx only
Ark: Addax and Oryx only
Ambassador: No - well not for any campaign ZV is using at the moment
Enabling: No
Research: No
To my mind this is the reason why Zoos Victoria (and others) don't want to import more different species of antelope (or deer or bovine).
Now for "Grant's Unpopular Opinion #482":
If you want a zoo with 75,000 different species of ungulate, then go to Altina - but this is not what I want from a zoo. I simply find this boring:
In my opinion when displaying ungulates less in more! For example, I think Mogo Zoo has it perfect - they have:
White Rhino
Giraffe
Zebra
Camel
European Fallow Deer
Four high profile "important" ungulates and ONE smaller one - the difference is that they have a huge herd of the fallow deer (not just 4 or 5). To my mind, this is how deer and antelope look best - in large herds.
WORZ (and Monarto, and Dubbo) have a huge herd of Eland. Individually, I have no interest in eland whatsoever, but when they are in a huge herd they look great - especially when sharing a large exhibit with the "important" species such as giraffes and zebras. The same can be said about the large herd of oryx at WORZ - it works because there are a lot of them.
It seems to me that this is what WORZ (and others) are trying to do with the nyala. And I think this is a great way to do it. They are a beautiful looking creature, but they are not the star attraction and never will be - they are a great supporting act.
The main issue here (in my view) is that no matter how people dress it up, antelope, deer or wild bovines are never going to tick the "Enabling" box - and most of the general public simply can't get attached to them or have the same feelings for them that they have for ungulates such as giraffes, rhinos, zebras, hippos or (maybe) okapi. They are always going to play second fiddle to the high profile, "exotic" ungulates I've just listed. I've even heard comments from the public about how they would like to eat them!
I don't want to come across as too negative towards smaller ungulates, so I will offer a positive option as well: If MZ do decide to bring in Indian rhinos once the elephants leave, then a really good "house-mate" for them would be a large herd (20+) of Hog Deer! They would be an ideal point of difference, AND they co-exist with Indian rhino in Kaziranga National Park, India - the place with the largest concentration of Indian rhino in the world. You could even include Hoolock Gibbons (also found in Kaziranga NP) - but that's too far off topic for this post.
In a nutshell, with smaller ungulates, don't try to display too many - but display them in a smarter way.
But this is the issue: they resemble cattle. I suspect that far more kids have a soft toy giraffe/elephant/zebra/rhino/hippo than a soft toy cow (I know some will have one), but to most of the general public, cattle are an animal to eat, not a zoo animal.
PS: I do see your point about them being endangered etc though.
The tapir enclosure has housed tapir for nearly 4 decades. I remember it clearly as a kid. The bison were to the left of the tapirs - what is now the water recyling plant. I've checked the old maps to make sure of this.
It houses Melbourne's breeding male, Kang Ju.You can often see him perched up on a piece of scaffolding at the back of the exhibit.
Strangely enough I saw him this morning walking around the exhibit in full view of the public (at around 9.30am). I think it was because of the cool weather after a few hot days. We were lucky - we had Indrah up and about, and then Kang Ju, then Miska (female snow leopard) devouring a rabbit right in front of the window, and then both lions putting on a show up on their high platform! It was a real big cat morning!
PaddyRickMFZ
Well-Known Member
I think your hog deer proposal would be amazing, and an adequate replacement for elephants in mi eyes. I do disagree on the antelope though(sorta). I agree they should be displayed in larger herds, but with the opportunity of the waterhole, providing an ecosystem without focus on one species would be remarkable, even if your average zoo goer believes they would make a tasty snack. Even just one or 2 more antelope in large numbers to fill a new precinct would not be a draw card, but I guarantee the general public would admire it on some fashion(Jurassic Park esc). I do agree that we can’t have have small herds, and 1 or 2 Nilgai in the zoo would be overlooked, but a thriving herd would be very impressive.
Side Note, if hog deer are not utilised with a potential Indian Rhino, Blackbuck or preferably Axis deer would be great additions
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The "Ultimate Leopard"! Now you're talking! I've been wanting to like this statement all day but it took me ages to find the comment!
That's very interesting to hear. I thought they were where the Peccaries are now; with the Banteng where the Tapir currently are. Thats right though re. The Bison, their former enclosure was where the Watering Plant now is.
I agree that hog deer, blackbuck or axis deer (or all 3) would work well with the indian rhino - as they are all pretty looking species.
To your main point though, I think part of the issue here is that while most deer and antelope look good in large herds, quite a number of them don't actually live in large herds in the wild. For example Nilgai tend to live in family groups of 5 or 6 in the wild in India. Zoos have some duty (in my view) to display animals as they live in the wild (as realistically as possible) but of course that can't always be done.
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