Melbourne Zoo Future of Melbourne Zoo 2023 (Speculation / Fantasy)

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The lions bred to Johari have been carefully moved into different situations as to avoid breeding the line too much considering the Auckland line is very represented in the region atm through the 2001 born daughters.

Out of the 11 cubs, only half (six) have been moved into breeding situations. That's why I'm of the assumption the trio of girls at Auckland will probably remain there as non breeding group long term and Ato at Taronga will probably not be bred again with Maya.

The recent cubs born at Monarto, Dubbo and Taronga are all grandchildren of Johari and Nilo.

Auckland confirmed on my visit in January that they had no intention of sourcing males, so yes I believe their lionesses will be non breeding.

It seemed strange to me why they’ve been hellbent on breeding from Nilo’s cubs, but not Nairibi’s - but in any case, Nairibi is now back in a breeding situation at the National Zoo.
 
I know I mentioned this before, but would it be possible for pronghorn, prairie dogs and bison to share an exhibit, if they were indicating ‘other northern hemisphere animals’

Praire dogs aren’t a species of interest to the ZAA and although I’ve read about them being mixed with Bison overseas (in some cases, wild Praire dogs burrowing in), I’d imagine they’d opt for an ungulate like a Fallow deer.
 
Auckland confirmed on my visit in January that they had no intention of sourcing males, so yes I believe their lionesses will be non breeding.

It seemed strange to me why they’ve been hellbent on breeding from Nilo’s cubs, but not Nairibi’s - but in any case, Nairibi is now back in a breeding situation at the National Zoo.
That would make sense.

I'd also imagine the next litter to Nilo will probably be her last, with any female cubs being retained and males being moved into a bachelor group (either at Werribee or elsewhere).

The favouring of Nilo's cubs is just pure coincidence imo. Monarto wanted males, and only Nilo's three sons were available at the time, and the same went for when Taronga wanted to acquire males.

In saying that, Werribee could've easily retained Nairobi and one of her daughters, but perhaps Werribee was looking a bit into the relationships there and deemed Nilo was much closer to her daughters.
 
That would make sense.

I'd also imagine the next litter to Nilo will probably be her last, with any female cubs being retained and males being moved into a bachelor group (either at Werribee or elsewhere).

The favouring of Nilo's cubs is just pure coincidence imo. Monarto wanted males, and only Nilo's three sons were available at the time, and the same went for when Taronga wanted to acquire males.

In saying that, Werribee could've easily retained Nairobi and one of her daughters, but perhaps Werribee was looking a bit into the relationships there and deemed Nilo was much closer to her daughters.

It could be coincidence as Monarto wanted the older (2015) litter for a speedy introduction to their eldest lionesses (which sadly came too late anyway); and then Nairibi’s cubs took their place at Melbourne at an age where Nilo’s next litter were too young to transfer out.

Retaining Asali was likely Werribee’s preference. Auckland were similarly given the choice to retain one cub from Kura’s litter and chose Amira, who was close to Kura and was placid/easy to work with. Kutaza, who’s name meant “cross one” had a fiery disposition like her mother and was sent to Adelaide Zoo where she became the alpha female.
 
@PaddyRickMFZ here's some photos I found that show the back enclosure.

This is one taken by @Baldur from back in 2009:
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Here's a better one from @Astrobird :
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And here's some taken by me recently:
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That’s surprising. I’ve seen that mix various times internationally

It would be possible, but Praire dog are Least Concern and wouldn’t fit two or more of Zoos Victoria’s species criteria. I don’t believe they’re on the live import list and while it’d be possible to get them added, I can’t see the ZAA having any interest in doing so.

It’s a shame as North America is so underrepresented in our region’s zoos. I’d love to see American black bears, Grey wolves, Puma etc. as well as more holders of California sea lions (a highly charismatic species).
 
@PaddyRickMFZ here's some photos I found that show the back enclosure.

This is one taken by @Baldur from back in 2009:
full


Here's a better one from @Astrobird :
full


And here's some taken by me recently:
full

full
Thanks. I feel like there should be a viewing window specifically for that enclosure tbh. Also, it’s a shame the ZAA don’t have interest on either of those species. Prairie dogs are obviously enabling and pronghorn are endangered, and both would aptly compliment the bison and portray an American setting. All that would be left is the fabled grey wolf that @Grant Rhino decided to torture us with the possibility of
 
It would be possible, but Praire dog are Least Concern and wouldn’t fit two or more of Zoos Victoria’s species criteria. I don’t believe they’re on the live import list and while it’d be possible to get them added, I can’t see the ZAA having any interest in doing so.

It’s a shame as North America is so underrepresented in our region’s zoos. I’d love to see American black bears, Grey wolves, Puma etc. as well as more holders of California sea lions (a highly charismatic species).
Just imagine. A row of bear grottos, featuring grizzly(or Syrian brown), American black, Andean, sloth and Malayan sun bear. That obviously will never happen but the crowds that would draw would be insane. Australians haven’t seen a textbook hear species since honey at MZ, and that would surely be the talk of the country. Then, imagine if Puma and Jaguar were housed nearby to represent American felids. As stated, it will never happen, but even if the masterplan goes through in its entirety a quarter of the land will still be unused
 
Just imagine. A row of bear grottos, featuring grizzly(or Syrian brown), American black, Andean, sloth and Malayan sun bear. That obviously will never happen but the crowds that would draw would be insane. Australians haven’t seen a textbook hear species since honey at MZ, and that would surely be the talk of the country. Then, imagine if Puma and Jaguar were housed nearby to represent American felids. As stated, it will never happen, but even if the masterplan goes through in its entirety a quarter of the land will still be unused

That I’d like to see. It’s amazing reading old newspaper articles from the early 20th century detailing zoos holding multiple species of bear. Perth Zoo reportedly had 10 exhibits, which combined probably equated to the size of what would be considered an acceptable exhibit by today’s standards.

I’d maintain Sloth bear are our best bet, but I’d love to see your idea implemented in an ideal world.
 
That I’d like to see. It’s amazing reading old newspaper articles from the early 20th century detailing zoos holding multiple species of bear. Perth Zoo reportedly had 10 exhibits, which combined probably equated to the size of what would be considered an acceptable exhibit by today’s standards.

I’d maintain Sloth bear are our best bet, but I’d love to see your idea implemented in an ideal world.
Sloth bear are indeed most likely. Potentially, just potentially, nostalgia could cause Syrian brown bear to return. As we’ve covered, asiatic black bear and Malayan sun bear could be acquired as likely non breeding pairs, but maybe some individuals of either species could be bred. Andean bear are interesting because something could theoretically happen, but nothing has been confirmed nor denied. One species we can all but rule out is grizzly bear, although Kodiak bears returning to the region would surely be a spectacle. Wasn’t even worth mentioning polar or panda bears. Personally wouldn’t enjoy seeing either because of the stress it would place on the polar bears and removing Adelaide’s X factor
 
Sloth bear are indeed most likely. Potentially, just potentially, nostalgia could cause Syrian brown bear to return. As we’ve covered, asiatic black bear and Malayan sun bear could be acquired as likely non breeding pairs, but maybe some individuals of either species could be bred. Andean bear are interesting because something could theoretically happen, but nothing has been confirmed nor denied. One species we can all but rule out is grizzly bear, although Kodiak bears returning to the region would surely be a spectacle. Wasn’t even worth mentioning polar or panda bears. Personally wouldn’t enjoy seeing either because of the stress it would place on the polar bears and removing Adelaide’s X factor

In an ideal world, we’d see thriving breeding programmes for multiple bear species; but as it stands, the best we can hope for is a successful breeding programme for one species - with multiple holders participating.

If Melbourne Zoo acquire Sloth bear, I’d imagine at least two or three other holders would arise in the five years that followed; hopefully with another two emerging within the decade. Those holding sun bears are the obvious candidates to switch to Sloth bears when their ageing bears pass.

It never ceases to amaze me how almost every main zoo in the region once held Polar bear, with many of them successfully breeding them. They didn’t thrive in our climate, but they did survive - with several living into their 20’s and 30’s.
 
In an ideal world, we’d see thriving breeding programmes for multiple bear species; but as it stands, the best we can hope for is a successful breeding programme for one species - with multiple holders participating.

If Melbourne Zoo acquire Sloth bear, I’d imagine at least two or three other holders would arise in the five years that followed; hopefully with another two emerging within the decade. Those holding sun bears are the obvious candidates to switch to Sloth bears when their ageing bears pass.

It never ceases to amaze me how almost every main zoo in the region once held Polar bear, with many of them successfully breeding them. They didn’t thrive in our climate, but they did survive - with several living into their 20’s and 30’s.
Okay I just found out the there are under 1000 Himalayan brown bears left. Considering very few facilities hold them it would be almost impossible to source them, but if an opportunity presented itself Zoos Victoria would be wise to take it. It’s painful looking at all the bears held internationally and knowing the most we can get at MZ or WORZ Is probably a sloth bear or sun bear, not that I have anything against those species ofc
 
Okay I just found out the there are under 1000 Himalayan brown bears left. Considering very few facilities hold them it would be almost impossible to source them, but if an opportunity presented itself Zoos Victoria would be wise to take it. It’s painful looking at all the bears held internationally and knowing the most we can get at MZ or WORZ Is probably a sloth bear or sun bear, not that I have anything against those species ofc

I agree. As exciting as it’d be to acquire them, we don’t want to be in the position of accepting a species no other zoo in the region will be able to source. Other holders will rely on Melbourne to breed them and even if they succeed, the population will be related and will die out when there’s no option to acquire more; as we’re seeing with the sun bears - three females (two descended from one founder female) that will likely never get a mate.

Sloth bears are available now to multiple holders in Australasia and the information we have available suggests they still will be in decades to come.
 
I agree. As exciting as it’d be to acquire them, we don’t want to be in the position of accepting a species no other zoo in the region will be able to source. Other holders will rely on Melbourne to breed them and even if they succeed, the population will be related and will die out when there’s no option to acquire more; as we’re seeing with the sun bears - three females (two descended from one founder female) that will likely never get a mate.

Sloth bears are available now to multiple holders in Australasia and the information we have available suggests they still will be in decades to come.[/QUOTE
As a region we have a rare opportunity to acquire an endangered bear species, and we’d be pretty stupid not to take it. Ofc I’m biased so I’m gonna talk about Zoos Vic, but they fit 3 categories and your sloth bear mountain concept is a more than adequate replacement for the elephants imo. Realistically, how many species are possibly in contention to replace the elephants? We’ve narrowed it down to a couple, and sloth bear is the standout among those
 
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As a region we have a rare opportunity to acquire an endangered bear species, and we’d be pretty stupid not to take it. Ofc I’m biased so I’m gonna talk about Zoos Vic, but they fit 3 categories and your sloth bear mountain concept is a more than adequate replacement for the elephants imo. Realistically, how many species are possibly in contention to replace the elephants? We’ve narrowed it down to a couple, and sloth bear is the standout among those

I’d say:

Strong possibilities:

Sloth bear and Sri Lankan leopard
Indian rhinoceros
Mandrill and Eastern bongo
Expansion to orangutan exhibit

Weaker possibilities:

Okapi (long wait time re. IRA)
Common chimpanzee

Off the wall possibilities:

Giant panda (can’t 100% discount it, but is pretty out there)
 
I’d say:

Strong possibilities:

Sloth bear and Sri Lankan leopard
Indian rhinoceros
Mandrill and Eastern bongo
Expansion to orangutan exhibit

Weaker possibilities:

Okapi (long wait time re. IRA)
Common chimpanzee

Off the wall possibilities:

Giant panda (can’t 100% discount it, but is pretty out there)
We can all but discount the final 3. Mandrill is another left field option but considering they have been held in the past, is still very much a possibility, same with bongo, although bongo certainly has more substance. Indian Rhino, sloth bear and Sri Lankan leopard are all in the same boat. No indication from the zoo but all species would be readily available(to some extent). Unfortunately for me, an orangutan expansion is likely. Aside from those species and maybe Komodo dragon, which I don’t believe would fare overly well in that exhibit, there don’t seem to be any more options that would fill the hole left by elephants, at least in their own. Aforementioned species such as tahr, langurs and dholes aren’t likely unless your sloth bear mountain eventuates, which I am certainly rooting for
 
We can all but discount the final 3. Mandrill is another left field option but considering they have been held in the past, is still very much a possibility, same with bongo, although bongo certainly has more substance. Indian Rhino, sloth bear and Sri Lankan leopard are all in the same boat. No indication from the zoo but all species would be readily available(to some extent). Unfortunately for me, an orangutan expansion is likely. Aside from those species and maybe Komodo dragon, which I don’t believe would fare overly well in that exhibit, there don’t seem to be any more options that would fill the hole left by elephants, at least in their own. Aforementioned species such as tahr, langurs and dholes aren’t likely unless your sloth bear mountain eventuates, which I am certainly rooting for

Komodo dragon is a good option, which can indeed be added. As a South East Asian species, it would support the expansion of the orangutan exhibit - with their being enough room to hold at least one breeding pair in a Komodo Island themed complex.

I added Common chimpanzee, but in all honesty think they’d be better suited to Werribee. This would see Melbourne and Werribee each hold two great ape species each. In addition, Melbourne have previously phased out chimpanzee and would need to dedicate most of the complex to housing them if the intention was to hold a large troop like the one at Taronga.
 
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