Melbourne Zoo Future of Melbourne Zoo 2023 (Speculation / Fantasy)

[Zoofan15]

Both aviaries aren’t big enough for Fishing Cat; that’s the thing. The Aviary I believe you speak of extends right back to the edge of the BTS Tiger facilities so can’t be extended any further back. In saying that, it could still be extended sideways but there’s still a lack of space that way as well. I’m also not sure how Fishing Cats would do right smack next door to Sumatran Tigers. Probably not the best housing wise.

I think the right option for them is the current Squirrel Monkey enclosure. It extends back far enough to give them privacy and a pool could be added right at the front of the exhibit; with the mesh replaced with a viewing glass there.

Yeah I was imagining an enclosure for Fishing Cats being built opposite the Otters underwater viewing area.

That’s a better idea than housing them in the immediate vicinity of the Sumatran tiger complex. They’re similar to Temminck’s golden cat in their sensitivity to disturbances - and would find it unnerving being housed in close range to an apex predator. Both breeding and raising of young would be inhibited.

If Melbourne want to be successful in breeding Fishing cat, I’d recommend the tried and tested off display exhibits for breeding; with an on display exhibit to habituate cubs to public display.

 

[Zoofan15]

It’s decent distance away from the CBD so that would be a nice idea. I’ve always been a fan of adding a zoo in the eastern suburbs. Zoos Vic already have Melbourne in the City, Werribee in the west, Healesville in the North, Kyabram in the far north but lack a facility in the east (which has the biggest population of them all). So if not Sundown, they could easily select another location elsewhere around there.

Regarding what type of zoo; I’d imagine a Night Safari might be the way to go. It’s been previously suggested on here for Werribee, but a seperate attraction in the East would work better imo.

I’d love to see this. Werribee will clearly remain African centric for the foreseeable, but there’s many Asian species (ungulates etc.) that are poorly suited for display in a city zoo either due to their size or the challenges around exhibiting them (Malayan tapir). They could be displayed at the night safari facility with tours through the expansive exhibits; and walking trails through smaller exhibits for Clouded leopard etc.

We’re all hoping for bears at Melbourne - and I remain of the opinion they’re the best possible replacement for the elephants; but there’s no denying a spectacular exhibit could be built for Indian sloth bears at an open range zoo, enabling the genesis of a successful breeding programme.

 

[Pertinax]

They’ve been hoping Kimya will conceive for at least a year and half now and nothing is happening.

Poor to non existent breeding results are seen in pairs (females feel more secure with female company). My guess is even when Yuska was alive, because she was on the fringes of the troop, Kimya didn’t regard her as a fully integrated troop member who would provide her with support.

Kimya in turn likely doesnt recognise her adolescent daughter as another female in the troop. This may change as Kanzi enters adulthood, but in any case, new females are needed.

Importing two young females is the way to go. That way they’d have each other for support and wouldn’t be excluded from the central clique, which is the mother-daughter dyad of Kimya and Kanzi.

I think you are probably right in this. The effectively one to one relationship she has with Otana may be creating stress and hindering another pregnancy, or perhaps her previous contraception may have played a role too. They may look happy enough living together but there may well be stressful undercurrents at work due to her being the only adult female in the 'group', which is really just a pair and one offspring..

They badly need additional females. I remember the Melbourne group with many more members than this in the past.

 

[Zoofan15]

I think you are probably right in this. The effectively one to one relationship she has with Otana may be creating stress and hindering another pregnancy, or perhaps her previous contraception may have played a role too. They may look happy enough living together but there may well be stressful undercurrents at work due to her being the only adult female in the 'group', which is really just a pair and one offspring..

They badly need additional females. I remember the Melbourne group with many more members than this in the past.

When Kimya conceive Kanzi in 2014, the troop numbered 1.4 gorillas. She struggled to conceive even when Yuska was alive, but since Yuska lived on the fringes of the troop, it’s doubtful Kimya regarded her as an integrated member. The same could be said for Julia and G-Ann, but the combination of these females (plus Yuska) was evidently sufficient - combined with the troop being newly formed.

Going forward, I hope breeding can resume (with new females imported). Long term, it wouldn’t surprise me to see Fikiri join the troop. Whether Frala could accompany her as a non breeding female is something they’d have to decide. Though mother raised, she’d be post reproductive and it’s unknown how accepting Otana would be. It may be that the benefits of keeping her with her daughter would be outweighed by the risks to her safety.

 

[Jambo]

I think you are probably right in this. The effectively one to one relationship she has with Otana may be creating stress and hindering another pregnancy, or perhaps her previous contraception may have played a role too. They may look happy enough living together but there may well be stressful undercurrents at work due to her being the only adult female in the 'group', which is really just a pair and one offspring..

They badly need additional females. I remember the Melbourne group with many more members than this in the past.

The group is definitely more distant as a whole than Taronga’s. Even back when Yuska was alive it wasn’t unusual to find all four gorillas at opposite ends of the enclosure. Occasionally the females grouped together but from what I’ve seen Otana spends a lot of time off on his own, and sometimes hangs around Kimya but I’ve never seen any actual physical interaction between the two in a long time.

When Kimya conceive Kanzi in 2014, the troop numbered 1.4 gorillas. She struggled to conceive even when Yuska was alive, but since Yuska lived on the fringes of the troop, it’s doubtful Kimya regarded her as an integrated member. The same could be said for Julia and G-Ann, but the combination of these females (plus Yuska) was evidently sufficient - combined with the troop being newly formed.

Going forward, I hope breeding can resume (with new females imported). Long term, it wouldn’t surprise me to see Fikiri join the troop. Whether Frala could accompany her as a non breeding female is something they’d have to decide. Though mother raised, she’d be post reproductive and it’s unknown how accepting Otana would be. It may be that the benefits of keeping her with her daughter would be outweighed by the risks to her safety.

I can definitely see a swap being made between Taronga and Melbourne. Kimya knows Frala, so I see no reason why she shouldn’t be accepting herself. Otana’s also only shown aggression to females that are socially abnormal, of which Frala is not. In saying that, females usually move away from their mothers so Frala could still remain at Taronga either way.

 

[Zoofan15]

The group is definitely more distant as a whole than Taronga’s. Even back when Yuska was alive it wasn’t unusual to find all four gorillas at opposite ends of the enclosure. Occasionally the females grouped together but from what I’ve seen Otana spends a lot of time off on his own, and sometimes hangs around Kimya but I’ve never seen any actual physical interaction between the two in a long time.


I can definitely see a swap being made between Taronga and Melbourne. Kimya knows Frala, so I see no reason why she shouldn’t be accepting herself. Otana’s also only shown aggression to females that are socially abnormal, of which Frala is not. In saying that, females usually move away from their mothers so Frala could still remain at Taronga either way.

Sadly Melbourne has long struggled to form a cohesive troop with Rigo proving an ineffective leader compared to most mother-raised silverbacks. Yuska was able to dominate him to an extent and while fortunately she had the nous to realise this wasn’t something she try with to Otana, she was never a well integrated member of his troop.

The social deficiencies of Julia and G-Ann meanwhile were accepted by more tolerant silverbacks (Motoba, Rigo etc). but ultimately not by Otana. While I’m willing to accept some the altercations stem from the female’s social issues and his inexperience, I feel like his lack of interaction with Kimya speaks volumes. Young mother raised females are typically devoted to their silverbacks (especially if there’s an opportunity to elevate their status).

Another way to do it could be to swap Kibale (and Johari) for Otana. Otana could head up a troop at Taronga of Frala (non breeding) and Mbeli and Fikiri (both breeding); while Melbourne have Kibale heading up a troop of Johari (non breeding) and Kimya and Kanzi (both breeding). The time elapsed and the change of silverback may reset Kimya’s mindset into perceiving Kanzi as another female; while Johari would be no worse off in this troop (arguably better as Kanzi is an adolescent female more likely to ‘befriend’ her as Mbeli did prior to meeting Kibale/having offspring).

 

[The Sleepy Hippo]

With the likelihood that long-term MZ does retain lions, I'd like to see Werribee expand their lion enclosure, akin to Monarto's, and have it be a drive through on the safari bus, move the remaining African Lions from MZ to WORZ, and then have MZ hold a pair of breeding Asiatic Lions and join the international breeding program.
Europe has grown their population to 150+, and there are only 500-600 left in the wild in a single forest. (Putting the population in an extremely vulnerable position).
If breeding proves successful, they could down the track open an exhibit for excess on the Elephant track.

 

[PaddyRickMFZ]

With the likelihood that long-term MZ does retain lions, I'd like to see Werribee expand their lion enclosure, akin to Monarto's, and have it be a drive through on the safari bus, move the remaining African Lions from MZ to WORZ, and then have MZ hold a pair of breeding Asiatic Lions and join the international breeding program.
Europe has grown their population to 150+, and there are only 500-600 left in the wild in a single forest. (Putting the population in an extremely vulnerable position).
If breeding proves successful, they could down the track open an exhibit for excess on the Elephant track.

I very much like that idea. WORZ have confirmed expansions into a third lions exhibit, observable from the safari if that’s any consolation. I’m not sure asiatic lions would eventuate due to availability but I’d love to see it happen. Would mean more lions at WORZ, and both zoo goers and general public would be happy with it

 

[The Sleepy Hippo]

Or if they do build a new Tiger breeding facility in TOTE, (which I'm sure I heard was a rumour -although from the Zoo I've only heard it stated there are no current plans to import or breed tigers, though they are committed long-term)
the enclosure Hutan lives in could be used for Asiatic Lion.

 

[The Sleepy Hippo]

I very much like that idea. WORZ have confirmed expansions into a third lions exhibit, observable from the safari if that’s any consolation. I’m not sure asiatic lions would eventuate due to availability but I’d love to see it happen. Would mean more lions at WORZ, and both zoo goers and general public would be happy with it

With the European breeding programs population having risen to 150, there could potentially be scope for an import. But I agree the possibility is limited, and I think Australia would need at least another facility beyond MZ and WORZ to start a program in our region.

 

[PaddyRickMFZ]

Or if they do build a new Tiger breeding facility in TOTE, (which I'm sure I heard was a rumour -although from the Zoo I've only heard it stated there are no current plans to import or breed tigers, though they are committed long-term)
the enclosure Hutan lives in could be used for Asiatic Lion.

I highly doubt they would build a new tiger breeding facility considering they already have one. As stated I’d prefer Indrah and Hutan be rotated here, leaving their other exhibit open for Sun Bears, Sloth Bears, and now your wonderful concept, asiatic lions. Close proximity to the current lion exhibit, which would no doubt be repurposed in this scenario, so breeding can occur far more easily

 

[PaddyRickMFZ]

With the European breeding programs population having risen to 150, there could potentially be scope for an import. But I agree the possibility is limited, and I think Australia would need at least another facility beyond MZ and WORZ to start a program in our region.

I believe asiatic lions are CITES I, so we would definitely need more facilities to get on board

 

[Zoofan15]

I believe asiatic lions are CITES I, so we would definitely need more facilities to get on board

Asian lions are CITES I, so support would be needed from other zoos. Potentially Taronga Western Plains Zoo may have an interest in going back into them, though I’m of them opinion they’re just as well suited to city zoos.

Asian lions are often kept in pairs or small groups through Europe (they naturally live in small, same sex prides); and our open range zoos are probably best carrying on holding large breeding prides of African lions like @The Sleepy Hippo suggests for Werribee.

 

[PaddyRickMFZ]

Asian lions are CITES I, so support would be needed from other zoos. Potentially Taronga Western Plains Zoo may have an interest in going back into them, though I’m of them opinion they’re just as well suited to city zoos.

Asian lions are often kept in pairs or small groups through Europe (they naturally live in small, same sex prides); and our open range zoos are probably best carrying on holding large breeding prides of African lions like @The Sleepy Hippo suggests for Werribee.

I feel as though they would be wasted at WORZ, and throughly appreciated at MZ. Adelaide seems like a great idea though. Many people have expressed distaste about the fact that African lions are remaining, but asiatic lions would agains satisfy all communities. Expanding monarto’s pride further really can’t do any harm. I also noticed Sydney zoo has introduced overhead ropes for the orangutans. I’m of the opinion that Melbourne would greatly benefit from this. The adjacent island may well be redeveloped in aid of this purpose, considering it was being forested when I last visited. If there’s anyway to introduce them to the siamangs and expand all the way to the Japanese island it would be great, albeit very unlikely. With the island all but certain to be repurposed(from what Ive seen) I really hope the elephant complex isn’t used as housing, and presents an amazing opportunity for new and exotic species

 

[The Sleepy Hippo]

I feel as though they would be wasted at WORZ, and throughly appreciated at MZ. Adelaide seems like a great idea though. Many people have expressed distaste about the fact that African lions are remaining, but asiatic lions would agains satisfy all communities. Expanding monarto’s pride further really can’t do any harm. I also noticed Sydney zoo has introduced overhead ropes for the orangutans. I’m of the opinion that Melbourne would greatly benefit from this. The adjacent island may well be redeveloped in aid of this purpose, considering it was being forested when I last visited. If there’s anyway to introduce them to the siamangs and expand all the way to the Japanese island it would be great, albeit very unlikely. With the island all but certain to be repurposed(from what Ive seen) I really hope the elephant complex isn’t used as housing, and presents an amazing opportunity for new and exotic species

I think an enclosure at WORZ would be great if along the elephant waterhole trail. They would link in regionally with Asian elephants, and would mean that there are at least 2 holders in MZ and WORZ.

I agree Adelaide would be a good holder, as a city and as it is building a new larger lion enclosure.
They do wish to separate the males in their pride moving forward and my understanding was that the new enclosure was for that future bachelor pride, however I do think if they decided to get onboard with Asiatic Lion, they could make a second lion enclosure at Monarto.

 

[PaddyRickMFZ]

I think an enclosure at WORZ would be great if along the elephant waterhole trail. They would link in regionally with Asian elephants, and would mean that there are at least 2 holders in MZ and WORZ.

I agree Adelaide would be a good holder, as a city and as it is building a new larger lion enclosure.
They do wish to separate the males in their pride moving forward and my understanding was that the new enclosure was for that future bachelor pride, however I do think if they decided to get onboard with Asiatic Lion, they could make a second lion enclosure at Monarto.

As we know Monarto have ample space, and an enclosure on the elephant trail would be great, but I would prefer the elephant trail at MZ, where they’re not overshadowed. The lions could be replaced by sun bear with refurbishments imo. I’d still like to see one tiger exhibit repurposed. Dhole is a good like for like? 2 holders in Adelaide and MZ would be good to start, potentially with excess city and open range zoos coming aboard in the case of breeding success

 

[Zoofan15]

I think an enclosure at WORZ would be great if along the elephant waterhole trail. They would link in regionally with Asian elephants, and would mean that there are at least 2 holders in MZ and WORZ.

I agree Adelaide would be a good holder, as a city and as it is building a new larger lion enclosure.
They do wish to separate the males in their pride moving forward and my understanding was that the new enclosure was for that future bachelor pride, however I do think if they decided to get onboard with Asiatic Lion, they could make a second lion enclosure at Monarto.

Asiatic lions would be a great addition to Adelaide Zoo and certainly bigger crowd pullers than a bachelor pride of African lions. Potentially the city zoos could hold breeding pairs of Asiatic lions, but an alternative is for the males to be managed at the city zoos (Adelaide, Melbourne and Taronga) and the females managed at the open range zoos (Monarto, Werribee and Dubbo) with exchange between the two for breeding. This is after all, mirroring the natural social order and would be particularly easy to facilitate between Zoos Victoria and Zoos SA, which have their zoos close together.

 

[Zoofan15]

I feel as though they would be wasted at WORZ, and throughly appreciated at MZ. Adelaide seems like a great idea though. Many people have expressed distaste about the fact that African lions are remaining, but asiatic lions would agains satisfy all communities. Expanding monarto’s pride further really can’t do any harm.

I’m hoping we’ll see the development of a multigenerational pride of African lions at Monarto. To achieve this, they really need to bring in males to mate with the second generation females, while the first generation females are still of reproductive age (receptive to new males). They made the mistake of leaving it too late last time and the founder females had to be transferred out.

Multigenerational prides, aside from mirroring the natural social order, guard against having to euthansie the last survivor of a pride on welfare grounds - which is always controversial and attracts negative media attention.

Werribee are set to undertake this - with a mother and daughter lioness born 2012 and 2017, who will take turns to breed with their new male. By the time the oldest lionesses passes, the cubs born from these pairings will still be young enough to breed with a new male.

 

[Zoofan15]

I also noticed Sydney zoo has introduced overhead ropes for the orangutans. I’m of the opinion that Melbourne would greatly benefit from this. The adjacent island may well be redeveloped in aid of this purpose, considering it was being forested when I last visited. If there’s anyway to introduce them to the siamangs and expand all the way to the Japanese island it would be great, albeit very unlikely. With the island all but certain to be repurposed(from what Ive seen) I really hope the elephant complex isn’t used as housing, and presents an amazing opportunity for new and exotic species

I’d like to see aerial ropes implemented at Melbourne Zoo for their aboreal apes. My only criticism of Auckland’s otherwise fantastic set up is that it doesn’t particularly lend itself to the management of multiple groups. They have two exhibits, both of which are connected to the overhead ropes and can be alternated e.g. one exhibit has access, while the other doesn’t.

It’s only through succeeding introducing the Bornean orangutans to the Siamang that the option to house a second group of orangutans has opened up. If Melbourne implemented stops that accomodate the orangutans for an extended period of several hours, there’s no reason they couldn’t run three or more groupings of orangutans through the system. With the recognition they’re not a colony dwelling species, these “groups” may well consist of a pair or trio max, totalling seven or less orangutans overall (but still preferable to housing a single pair).

 

[PaddyRickMFZ]

I’d like to see aerial ropes implemented at Melbourne Zoo for their aboreal apes. My only criticism of Auckland’s otherwise fantastic set up is that it doesn’t particularly lend itself to the management of multiple groups. They have two exhibits, both of which are connected to the overhead ropes and can be alternated e.g. one exhibit has access, while the other doesn’t.

It’s only through succeeding introducing the Bornean orangutans to the Siamang that the option to house a second group of orangutans has opened up. If Melbourne implemented stops that accomodate the orangutans for an extended period of several hours, there’s no reason they couldn’t run three or more groupings of orangutans through the system. With the recognition they’re not a colony dwelling species, these “groups” may well consist of a pair or trio max, totalling seven or less orangutans overall (but still preferable to housing a single pair).

Seems a good idea. With three spaces of land and the aerial ropes, it seems fit. Current exhibit for one group, island for another, and Japanese island for another. How the rotations would work i have no idea but integration with siamangs could really help that. In an ideal world it would be cool to see the white cheeked gibbons a factor as well