Taronga Zoo Future of Taronga Zoo (Speculation / Fantasy)

[Zoofan15]

I found this planning document available online relating to the African Savannah and Congo Forest precincts at Taronga: https://majorprojects.planningportal.nsw.gov.au/prweb/PRRestService/mp/01/getContent?AttachRef=SSD-8008!20190228T003458.929 GMT

It's from 2017, so I believe that there have been some changes of plans since then; however, what is does show is how the zoo is seeking to (or has sought to) use the existing plant life and the sloping site in order to construct new exhibits. While these plans aren't gospel (for instance, as far as I can see there isn't an exhibit for pygmy hippo, and what's marked as a lemur exhibit now holds capybara), I do note that the existing gorilla exhibit isn't included within the area to be redeveloped.

My view would be this is a matter of practicality (as in, the new gorilla exhibit needs to be separate from the old one unless there's somewhere else for Taronga to house the gorilla troop in the meantime), although it does provide the opportunity for that space to be redeveloped to house bongo and pygmy hippo once the gorillas have moved into their new exhibit.

Thanks for attaching that. It aligns with the comments in the email I received from Taronga Zoo late last year that while Okapi hasn’t been ruled out, the central focus of the new precinct will be the gorillas.

My interpretation, supported by these plans, is that the priority is to construct gorilla exhibits to house a breeding troop and bachelor troop; followed by building an exhibit alongside for Okapi (the goal) or Eastern bongo (the back up). From here they can explore options of redeveloping the site of the exisiting gorilla exhibit to house Pygmy hippopotamus or an alternative species they decide on the interim.

I do believe Pygmy hippopotamus will have a future at Taronga. They had a long standing association with them and they’re popular with visitors. With rhinos and Common hippopotamus long phased out and elephants set to follow, they’d be wise to retain this (albeit significantly smaller) ungulate imo.

 

[Abbey]

Thanks for attaching that. It aligns with the comments in the email I received from Taronga Zoo late last year that while Okapi hasn’t been ruled out, the central focus of the new precinct will be the gorillas.

My interpretation, supported by these plans, is that the priority is to construct gorilla exhibits to house a breeding troop and bachelor troop; followed by building an exhibit alongside for Okapi (the goal) or Eastern bongo (the back up). From here they can explore options of redeveloping the site of the exisiting gorilla exhibit to house Pygmy hippopotamus or an alternative species they decide on the interim.

I do believe Pygmy hippopotamus will have a future at Taronga. They had a long standing association with them and they’re popular with visitors. With rhinos and Common hippopotamus long phased out and elephants set to follow, they’d be wise to retain this (albeit significantly smaller) ungulate imo.

That said, I just found this 2021 document: https://majorprojects.planningporta...ttachRef=PDA-15894651!20210412T233220.452 GMT which indicates that the current gorilla habitat will be demolished for the second stage of the new reptile and amphibian centre.

Perhaps the bongo and pygmy hippo will stay in their existing exhibits for the time being. This might be an unpopular opinion here, but I would prefer bongo over okapi, considering that there are already some animals in the region, as well as the husbandry experience and the ability to import them via the bovid IRA.

 

[tigris115]

Ooc, how large is the current elephant habitat?

 

[Zorro]

That said, I just found this 2021 document: https://majorprojects.planningportal.nsw.gov.au/prweb/PRRestService/mp/01/getContent?AttachRef=PDA-15894651!20210412T233220.452 GMT which indicates that the current gorilla habitat will be demolished for the second stage of the new reptile and amphibian centre.

Perhaps the bongo and pygmy hippo will stay in their existing exhibits for the time being. This might be an unpopular opinion here, but I would prefer bongo over okapi, considering that there are already some animals in the region, as well as the husbandry experience and the ability to import them via the bovid IRA.

It appears some of the major zoos seemed to have gone cold on the Bongo idea if they were serious about them they would be in a better position than they currently are at the moment

 

[Zoofan15]

Perhaps the bongo and pygmy hippo will stay in their existing exhibits for the time being. This might be an unpopular opinion here, but I would prefer bongo over okapi, considering that there are already some animals in the region, as well as the husbandry experience and the ability to import them via the bovid IRA.

It appears some of the major zoos seemed to have gone cold on the Bongo idea if they were serious about them they would be in a better position than they currently are at the moment

Eastern bongo are arguably a better choice than Okapi given we’ll never be able to source the number of Okapi needed to found a sustainable breeding programme in the region.

I think Taronga is overestimating the popularity of the Okapi with the general public. Most of them would be no more enthralled than by seeing a giraffe and considering it’d likely be bachelor bulls, there won’t be the attraction of energetic calves running around the exhibit. They’re a naturally shy species that will either be at the far end of the paddock in the shade; or browsing hay from a bucket.

If the space allocated to Okapi was dedicated to Eastern bongo, a minimum of 1.2 could be housed in the exhibit, with calves routinely bred. There’s been little initiative in importing them in recent years, which we can attribute to the lack of an IRA and the now defunct requirement to quarantine them in New Zealand for 12 months.

 

[Zorro]

Eastern bongo are arguably a better choice than Okapi given we’ll never be able to source the number of Okapi needed to found a sustainable breeding programme in the region.

I think Taronga is overestimating the popularity of the Okapi with the general public. Most of them would be no more enthralled than by seeing a giraffe and considering it’d likely be bachelor bulls, there won’t be the attraction of energetic calves running around the exhibit. They’re a naturally shy species that will either be at the far end of the paddock in the shade; or browsing hay from a bucket.

If the space allocated to Okapi was dedicated to Eastern bongo, a minimum of 1.2 could be housed in the exhibit, with calves routinely bred. There’s been little initiative in importing them in recent years, which we can attribute to the lack of an IRA and the now defunct requirement to quarantine them in New Zealand for 12 months.

I get the impression that with regards to Okapi it could be a managers pet want as it was in having the Thai elephants kept at Taronga more than anything else not that I am against them, they could be managed as part of the SSP and EEP without to much of a problem once the IRA is formulated

 

[Zoofan15]

I get the impression that with regards to Okapi it could be a managers pet want as it was in having the Thai elephants kept at Taronga more than anything else not that I am against them, they could be managed as part of the SSP and EEP without to much of a problem once the IRA is formulated

Working with the EEP might be an option for sourcing Okapi. The European population stands at 40.42 Okapi, so a little less than the North American population, but they’ve had a run of females with 5.12 born calves between 2019-2021.

The population wouldn’t be sustainable and any calves born would return to Europe, but Taronga may consider investing in this for a couple of decades for the novelty of exhibiting them. If they phase out their elephants, they’ll need some drawcards to replace them.

 

[Zorro]

Working with the EEP might be an option for sourcing Okapi. The European population stands at 40.42 Okapi, so a little less than the North American population, but they’ve had a run of females with 5.12 born calves between 2019-2021.

The population wouldn’t be sustainable and any calves born would return to Europe, but Taronga may consider investing in this for a couple of decades for the novelty of exhibiting them. If they phase out their elephants, they’ll need some drawcards to replace them.

I believe there are a number of zoos in Japan that exhibit Okapis these would be part of some satellite breeding program. Australia could become such a extension as them. Jet air travel can do thing rather quickly these days

 

[Swanson02]

That said, I just found this 2021 document: https://majorprojects.planningportal.nsw.gov.au/prweb/PRRestService/mp/01/getContent?AttachRef=PDA-15894651!20210412T233220.452 GMT which indicates that the current gorilla habitat will be demolished for the second stage of the new reptile and amphibian centre.

Perhaps the bongo and pygmy hippo will stay in their existing exhibits for the time being. This might be an unpopular opinion here, but I would prefer bongo over okapi, considering that there are already some animals in the region, as well as the husbandry experience and the ability to import them via the bovid IRA.

Are there any plans on what is going eventually to replace either of Taronga's two elephant exhibits? I assume the camels are not permanent and therefore the former bull exhibit has to be the first one of the two to go. Even if an unlikely swap is made for both Pathi Harn and Sabai I still can't see that exhibit ever being occupied again due to the cow exhibit also being divisible. Has there been any speculation/plans on what may occupy that space?

Personally, I don't think either of Taronga's exhibits are large enough to hold Indian Rhino like has been speculated for Perth and Melbourne's elephant replacements.

I think a good cheap option for the bull exhibit could be Brazilian Tapirs, all it would require is a bit of planting to enhance the tropical aesthetic. It has two yards so perfect for a breeding pair and both have a deep pool which Tapir love. Also, the exhibit is located relatively near the Tamarins and Capybara so could be the focal point for a small South American area. The exhibit would have plenty of space so Taronga could even introduce the capybara and create a good mixed Brazilian Tapir/Capybara exhibit.

Obviously, Tapirs are nowhere near the big ticket species that Taronga would want to replace their elephants so another species I could see would be the return of Orangutans. Obviously, the bull exhibit would require a large overhaul but some aspects like the barn could be retained and converted into an Orangutan house with guest viewing. The general layout with two yards could also be retained for his/her separate outdoor areas.

Here is the current bull elephant exhibit to familiarise everyone with its setup.

 

[Grant Rhino]

So it sounds like there will be some combination of:
Gorillas
Okapis
Pygmy Hipps
Bongos
Colobus
Assorted Birds

Why not Mandrills then??? Surely they would compliment that list perfectly!

 

[Zorro]

Are there any plans on what is going eventually to replace either of Taronga's two elephant exhibits? I assume the camels are not permanent and therefore the former bull exhibit has to be the first one of the two to go. Even if an unlikely swap is made for both Pathi Harn and Sabai I still can't see that exhibit ever being occupied again due to the cow exhibit also being divisible. Has there been any speculation/plans on what may occupy that space?

Personally, I don't think either of Taronga's exhibits are large enough to hold Indian Rhino like has been speculated for Perth and Melbourne's elephant replacements.

I think a good cheap option for the bull exhibit could be Brazilian Tapirs, all it would require is a bit of planting to enhance the tropical aesthetic. It has two yards so perfect for a breeding pair and both have a deep pool which Tapir love. Also, the exhibit is located relatively near the Tamarins and Capybara so could be the focal point for a small South American area. The exhibit would have plenty of space so Taronga could even introduce the capybara and create a good mixed Brazilian Tapir/Capybara exhibit.

Obviously, Tapirs are nowhere near the big ticket species that Taronga would want to replace their elephants so another species I could see would be the return of Orangutans. Obviously, the bull exhibit would require a large overhaul but some aspects like the barn could be retained and converted into an Orangutan house with guest viewing. The general layout with two yards could also be retained for his/her separate outdoor areas.

Here is the current bull elephant exhibit to familiarise everyone with its setup.

Tapirs are not really a good choice under current conditions as was explained on the forum recently, As it stands animals held within the EEP have reached a level where they cant house anymore but wont allow zoos here to own any so even if they were imported any young would go back to Europe, where’s the common sense in this policy?

 

[Zoofan15]

So it sounds like there will be some combination of:
Gorillas
Okapis
Pygmy Hipps
Bongos
Colobus
Assorted Birds

Why not Mandrills then??? Surely they would compliment that list perfectly!

Mandrill would be a great compliment, being an African rainforest species like the Western lowland gorilla and a primate. In addition, they’re charismatic and make for a fascinating display when exhibited in a family troop.

Adelaide Zoo are planning to import once their elderly pair passes, so a group import could be an option - beginning with these two zoos, but possibly including others who have an interest in the species.

 

[Swanson02]

I believe there are a number of zoos in Japan that exhibit Okapis these would be part of some satellite breeding program. Australia could become such a extension as them. Jet air travel can do thing rather quickly these days

I saw Okapi at Ueno Zoo in Japan and they were living in very cramped conditions there, so I would very much prefer we take a few out of their hands.

Tapirs are not really a good choice under current conditions as was explained on the forum recently, As it stands animals held within the EEP have reached a level where they cant house anymore but won't allow zoos here to own any so even if they were imported any young would go back to Europe, where’s the common sense in this policy?

There are zoos in the US with Brazilian Tapirs and tapirs are very popular in Japan and South Korea, so if Europe won't give us any we can always source them from somewhere else.

So it sounds like there will be some combination of:
Gorillas
Okapis
Pygmy Hipps
Bongos
Colobus
Assorted Birds

Why not Mandrills then??? Surely they would compliment that list perfectly!

I have no idea either, they are so striking too, hopefully, Adelaide and Taronga can work together on an import.

Ooc, how large is the current elephant habitat?

Both the cow and former bull habitats are quite small, smallest in the region I believe.

 

[Zoofan15]

Ooc, how large is the current elephant habitat?

Both the cow and former bull habitats are quite small, smallest in the region I believe.

Re. Size of Taronga Zoo’s elephant facility:

The main (cow) exhibit is 4500 m²; while the former bull facility consists of a 2000 m² paddock and a 500 m² exercise yard.

Melbourne’s facility is smaller: Exhibit One is 1050 m², including the pool that is about 150 m²; Exhibit Two is 1750 m²; Exhibit Three is about 1100 m² including a small pool.

 

[Abbey]

I saw Okapi at Ueno Zoo in Japan and they were living in very cramped conditions there, so I would very much prefer we take a few out of their hands.



There are zoos in the US with Brazilian Tapirs and tapirs are very popular in Japan and South Korea, so if Europe won't give us any we can always source them from somewhere else.



I have no idea either, they are so striking too, hopefully, Adelaide and Taronga can work together on an import.



Both the cow and former bull habitats are quite small, smallest in the region I believe.

Re. Size of Taronga Zoo’s elephant facility:

The main (cow) exhibit is 4500 m²; while the former bull facility consists of a 2000 m² paddock and a 500 m² exercise yard.

Melbourne’s facility is smaller: Exhibit One is 1050 m², including the pool that is about 150 m²; Exhibit Two is 1750 m²; Exhibit Three is about 1100 m² including a small pool.

That's larger than I thought, these were the figures I'd sourced from the judgment of the court case allowing the importation of the Thai elephants:

"Taronga Zoo’s outdoor area is approximately 2,082 m2. This excludes a pool and moat of 418 m2, a barn of approximately 490 m2 and a separate yard of 80 m2. There are four stalls in the barns which are also 7m x 7m. In addition, Taronga Zoo plans in the future to redevelop an enclosure which has previously been used to hold elephants. This space is close to, but separate from, the new enclosure. It will provide approximately an additional 2,200 m2 of space."

That said, it's more than possible that these figures (with the caveat of the word 'approximately' being used) are not absolutely correct, or are preliminary and were subject to change at a later date. So, I'd generally back your sources

 

[Zoofan15]

That's larger than I thought, these were the figures I'd sourced from the judgment of the court case allowing the importation of the Thai elephants:

"Taronga Zoo’s outdoor area is approximately 2,082 m2. This excludes a pool and moat of 418 m2, a barn of approximately 490 m2 and a separate yard of 80 m2. There are four stalls in the barns which are also 7m x 7m. In addition, Taronga Zoo plans in the future to redevelop an enclosure which has previously been used to hold elephants. This space is close to, but separate from, the new enclosure. It will provide approximately an additional 2,200 m2 of space."

That said, it's more than possible that these figures (with the caveat of the word 'approximately' being used) are not absolutely correct, or are preliminary and were subject to change at a later date. So, I'd generally back your sources

We're both correct. Your exhibits (and figures) were merged to create mine.

 

[Abbey]

We're both correct. Your exhibits (and figures) were merged to create mine.

Ah, fantastic - I'm just bad at maths.

 

[Zoofan15]

Ah, fantastic - I'm just bad at maths.

No problem. Though expanding the facilities was seen as a way to accommodate a breeding herd, the breeding programme was more successful than anyone could have anticipated - with three of the four cows producing calves and quickly out growing the exhibit. On hindsight, the move to Dubbo was inevitable from the beginning.

 

[Jambo]

Re. Size of Taronga Zoo’s elephant facility:

The main (cow) exhibit is 4500 m²; while the former bull facility consists of a 2000 m² paddock and a 500 m² exercise yard.

Melbourne’s facility is smaller: Exhibit One is 1050 m², including the pool that is about 150 m²; Exhibit Two is 1750 m²; Exhibit Three is about 1100 m² including a small pool.

Taronga’s cow exhibit can also be divided into two if required; so it’s pretty much two separate habitats. Though the size of their cow exhibit seems to be a bit off; I don’t think it’s that big, at least from the eye.

It’s no wonder Melbourne plan to send their herd to Werribee; their exhibits are very cramped.

 

[Jambo]

Are there any plans on what is going eventually to replace either of Taronga's two elephant exhibits? I assume the camels are not permanent and therefore the former bull exhibit has to be the first one of the two to go. Even if an unlikely swap is made for both Pathi Harn and Sabai I still can't see that exhibit ever being occupied again due to the cow exhibit also being divisible. Has there been any speculation/plans on what may occupy that space?

Personally, I don't think either of Taronga's exhibits are large enough to hold Indian Rhino like has been speculated for Perth and Melbourne's elephant replacements.

I think a good cheap option for the bull exhibit could be Brazilian Tapirs, all it would require is a bit of planting to enhance the tropical aesthetic. It has two yards so perfect for a breeding pair and both have a deep pool which Tapir love. Also, the exhibit is located relatively near the Tamarins and Capybara so could be the focal point for a small South American area. The exhibit would have plenty of space so Taronga could even introduce the capybara and create a good mixed Brazilian Tapir/Capybara exhibit.

Obviously, Tapirs are nowhere near the big ticket species that Taronga would want to replace their elephants so another species I could see would be the return of Orangutans. Obviously, the bull exhibit would require a large overhaul but some aspects like the barn could be retained and converted into an Orangutan house with guest viewing. The general layout with two yards could also be retained for his/her separate outdoor areas.

Here is the current bull elephant exhibit to familiarise everyone with its setup.

Camels are only a temporary addition in my eyes.

The bull enclosure is looking rather out of date too recently. I’d rather the whole enclosure be demolished. It’s located on one of the only flat pieces of land at the zoo, and so would be preferably used for an ungulate species. If they really wanted to; it would be a nice site for some Pygmy Hippo enclosures. The area where the Congo forest is planned is very hilly, and there’s not a lot of useable space. Also, using the Tamarin island for a species such as Colobus is another idea.