Taronga Zoo Future of Taronga Zoo (Speculation / Fantasy)

[Jambo]

The big issue with phasing out elephants is that they are just too big of a drawcard (no pun intended) and all the other options are either not possible or are flat out underwhelming. As cool as orangutans are, there is the issue of the Skyfari as laid out earlier. Malayan tapirs are a phase-out species, Indian rhinos aren't in Taronga's vision for the forseeable future, nilgai and bonnet macaques are fine species on their own but are just way too underwhelming a replacement... I know Taronga's probably mentioned they weren't going to make the switch to being a bachelor facility for elephants, but I genuinely think that's the best option they can go with. I'd totally be fine with any of the other replacement options if the Australian government was OK with streamlining the import process as well as reversing the Malayan tapir trend.

I throughly agree here; although the only thing is Taronga only moved half their herd to Dubbo in the first place, to hold their bulls in a more larger, more suitable location. Especially after the Lucy Melo incident in 2012, i'm not quite sure they'll go back on their word. Then again, that incident was undertaken during free contact, and the bulls are managed now with protective contact.

I think the fact the simple fact that Taronga had to begin management via protective contact, then limited their breeding opportunities as their bull (Gung), lived in an entirely different enclosure at the opposite end of the zoo which required keepers to walk them there. Of course, with protective contact this could no longer be managed; so it seems Taronga eventually just gave up and shipped Gung to Dubbo. At the time, Pak Boon, Tang Mo and Jai Dee could've been sent to; which would've been the best choice. But obviously Taronga believed either a) they could maintain the program at Taronga via AI with Pak Boon or b) Jai Dee was Pak Boon's last designated calf anyway, before she was removed from the breeding program due to TB.

 

[Zorro]

I throughly agree here; although the only thing is Taronga only moved half their herd to Dubbo in the first place, to hold their bulls in a more larger, more suitable location. Especially after the Lucy Melo incident in 2012, i'm not quite sure they'll go back on their word. Then again, that incident was undertaken during free contact, and the bulls are managed now with protective contact.

I think the fact the simple fact that Taronga had to begin management via protective contact, then limited their breeding opportunities as their bull (Gung), lived in an entirely different enclosure at the opposite end of the zoo which required keepers to walk them there. Of course, with protective contact this could no longer be managed; so it seems Taronga eventually just gave up and shipped Gung to Dubbo. At the time, Pak Boon, Tang Mo and Jai Dee could've been sent to; which would've been the best choice. But obviously Taronga believed either a) they could maintain the program at Taronga via AI with Pak Boon or b) Jai Dee was Pak Boon's last designated calf anyway, before she was removed from the breeding program due to TB.

A Taronga breeding herd was never a great idea it would of been far more logical to have put them at dubbo in the first place and also saved a whole heap of public money

 

[Zoofan15]

I throughly agree here; although the only thing is Taronga only moved half their herd to Dubbo in the first place, to hold their bulls in a more larger, more suitable location. Especially after the Lucy Melo incident in 2012, i'm not quite sure they'll go back on their word. Then again, that incident was undertaken during free contact, and the bulls are managed now with protective contact.

I think the fact the simple fact that Taronga had to begin management via protective contact, then limited their breeding opportunities as their bull (Gung), lived in an entirely different enclosure at the opposite end of the zoo which required keepers to walk them there. Of course, with protective contact this could no longer be managed; so it seems Taronga eventually just gave up and shipped Gung to Dubbo. At the time, Pak Boon, Tang Mo and Jai Dee could've been sent to; which would've been the best choice. But obviously Taronga believed either a) they could maintain the program at Taronga via AI with Pak Boon or b) Jai Dee was Pak Boon's last designated calf anyway, before she was removed from the breeding program due to TB.

The deaths of Tukta and Jai Dee were surely the final nail in the coffin for Taronga's breeding programme. Their herd has been reduced to a single viable breeding cow, who is now 30 years old and may have been retired from the breeding programme anyway due to TB.

Comparitively, the breeding programme at Dubbo is rhricing and they're beginning to see the establishment of a multigenerational herd.

At most, I'd anticipate Taronga will be holding bulls a five years from now, but even then I'm doubtful due to the pressures to phase out.

 

[Zoofan15]

A Taronga breeding herd was never a great idea it would of been far more logical to have put them at dubbo in the first place and also saved a whole heap of public money

I agree. Reading old comments on here, I see there was a lot of disappointment from the public that fundraising had been carried out to provide Heman and Burma with a new home, only for them to be shipped out to Dubbo in favour of accomadating a herd of young elephants they could manage in free contact.

On hindsight, the Thai imports should have gone to Dubbo as you suggested and the elderly animals be accommodated into retirement at Taronga, with the zoo phasing out upon their death.

 

[Zorro]

I agree. Reading old comments on here, I see there was a lot of disappointment from the public that fundraising had been carried out to provide Heman and Burma with a new home, only for them to be shipped out to Dubbo in favour of accomadating a herd of young elephants they could manage in free contact.

On hindsight, the Thai imports should have gone to Dubbo as you suggested and the elderly animals be accommodated into retirement at Taronga, with the zoo phasing out upon their death.

Bad planning and a waste of lots of public money!

 

[Zoofan15]

Bad planning and a waste of lots of public money!

The desire to run a free contact herd and exhibit the first Asian elephant calf in Australia swung the balance. Had Gung gone to Auckland as planned, it'd be interesting to see how things worked out as they'd prefer to have Heman on site with the cows.

 

[Jambo]

The desire to run a free contact herd and exhibit the first Asian elephant calf in Australia swung the balance. Had Gung gone to Auckland as planned, it'd be interesting to see how things worked out as they'd prefer to have Heman on site with the cows.

If the herd was at Dubbo, they wouldn't get almost as much visitors Taronga would get when a baby elephant would be born. Having a breeding herd at Taronga was the best way to go.

The initial plan was Taronga to have a herd consisting of Heman, Burma and three of the other cows.

Auckland planned to import Gung + Tukta alongside one of Taronga's cows. Obviously Auckland had Kashin and Burma at the time, and they would've been aware of only importing younger females. Tukta was about Gung's age; and I think we can assume the other female was either Thong Dee or Tang Mo. This would've given Auckland, Melbourne and Taronga each 5 elephants with a single bull; which was the best way to kick off a regional breeding program.

Heman died so soon after the Thai imports, so it would be interesting to see where Taronga would be now if Gung had indeed been sent to NZ. Auckland may very well have had Australasia's first elephant calf, and Taronga may have been restricted to breeding via AI.

 

[Zorro]

If the herd was at Dubbo, they wouldn't get almost as much visitors Taronga would get when a baby elephant would be born. Having a breeding herd at Taronga was the best way to go.

The initial plan was Taronga to have a herd consisting of Heman, Burma and three of the other cows.

Auckland planned to import Gung + Tukta alongside one of Taronga's cows. Obviously Auckland had Kashin and Burma at the time, and they would've been aware of only importing younger females. Tukta was about Gung's age; and I think we can assume the other female was either Thong Dee or Tang Mo. This would've given Auckland, Melbourne and Taronga each 5 elephants with a single bull; which was the best way to kick off a regional breeding program.

Heman died so soon after the Thai imports, so it would be interesting to see where Taronga would be now if Gung had indeed been sent to NZ. Auckland may very well have had Australasia's first elephant calf, and Taronga may have been restricted to breeding via AI.

I don't see how a few more visitors at Taronga would off set the massive cost of building 2 brand new (but cramped)(I believe you mentioned you did not believe it was big enough to house a pair of Indian rhinos?). elephant exhibits not to mention the cost of transferring the whole herd from Sydney to Dubbo!

 

[Zoofan15]

If the herd was at Dubbo, they wouldn't get almost as much visitors Taronga would get when a baby elephant would be born. Having a breeding herd at Taronga was the best way to go.

The initial plan was Taronga to have a herd consisting of Heman, Burma and three of the other cows.

Auckland planned to import Gung + Tukta alongside one of Taronga's cows. Obviously Auckland had Kashin and Burma at the time, and they would've been aware of only importing younger females. Tukta was about Gung's age; and I think we can assume the other female was either Thong Dee or Tang Mo. This would've given Auckland, Melbourne and Taronga each 5 elephants with a single bull; which was the best way to kick off a regional breeding program.

Heman died so soon after the Thai imports, so it would be interesting to see where Taronga would be now if Gung had indeed been sent to NZ. Auckland may very well have had Australasia's first elephant calf, and Taronga may have been restricted to breeding via AI.

Auckland Zoo only ever intended to import one female elephant via the Thai import. It was a shame that the aggression of this female led them to abolish plans to go ahead with this as it could have been the genesis of a thriving breeding programme. There was also significant public resistance to plans to buy additional land and expand the facilities into Western Springs. At one stage, plans detailed holding a herd of 10 elephants.

Even with the expansion and the possibility of breeding, it's hard to say what future they'd have at the zoo. I could still imagine them phasing out as exhibit standards change and facilities like Dubbo and Werribee become the norm rather than the exception.

 

[Jambo]

I don't see how a few more visitors at Taronga would off set the massive cost of building 2 brand new (but cramped)(I believe you mentioned you did not believe it was big enough to house a pair of Indian rhinos?). elephant exhibits not to mention the cost of transferring the whole herd from Sydney to Dubbo!

The elephants obviously wouldn't draw as much visitors at Dubbo compared to if they would be at Taronga. Dubbo is a long five hour drive, and not many (especially tourists) would be willing to travel that long journey from Sydney which pretty much requires an overnight stay to visit Dubbo. I remember when Melbourne first welcomed Mali (and later Ongard); there had to be thousands of people cramped into the trail of elephants for that same year, and you'd often struggle to even get a glimpse of them. It was much the same for Taronga, and I think we can all agree, Dubbo wouldn't even draw half the crowd.

I don't think I ever said the elephant exhibits are cramped too. They're decently sized for a city zoo; and much larger than Melbourne's. The mountainous terrain makes it much harder to create a large elephant complex, which is something Taronga should've considered from the every beginning. I'm sure that if they could, the enclosures probably would've been bigger than they are right now. They have the space, it's just the terrain that makes it hard to build these enclosures for large ungulates. Which is why Dubbo was built in the first place.

Re. the Indian Rhinos statement; I was referring to the bull enclosure, which is only a single enclosure, and so obviously wouldn't be able to hold two Indian Rhinos. The cow complex can manage a pair of rhinos as it has the ability to divide the enclosure into two, and is also double the size of the bull complex.

 

[Zorro]

The elephants obviously wouldn't draw as much visitors at Dubbo compared to if they would be at Taronga. Dubbo is a long five hour drive, and not many (especially tourists) would be willing to travel that long journey from Sydney which pretty much requires an overnight stay to visit Dubbo. I remember when Melbourne first welcomed Mali (and later Ongard); there had to be thousands of people cramped into the trail of elephants for that same year, and you'd often struggle to even get a glimpse of them. It was much the same for Taronga, and I think we can all agree, Dubbo wouldn't even draw half the crowd.

I don't think I ever said the elephant exhibits are cramped too. They're decently sized for a city zoo; and much larger than Melbourne's. The mountainous terrain makes it much harder to create a large elephant complex, which is something Taronga should've considered from the every beginning. I'm sure that if they could, the enclosures probably would've been bigger than they are right now. They have the space, it's just the terrain that makes it hard to build these enclosures for large ungulates. Which is why Dubbo was built in the first place.

Re. the Indian Rhinos statement; I was referring to the bull enclosure, which is only a single enclosure, and so obviously wouldn't be able to hold two Indian Rhinos. The cow complex can manage a pair of rhinos as it has the ability to divide the enclosure into two, and is also double the size of the bull complex.

I Agree of coarse Dubbo would not draw as many people as a city zoo but animal welfare comes first and the fact that they have now moved the bulk of the herd proves the city zoo idea was a flawed idea to begin with, I was against this idea before the herd ever left Thailand.
Yes I am aware of the long journey to Dubbo as I have made it many times with being a good ten plus hour drive for myself. At the end of the day having a large elephant herd at Taronga was a bad idea and as you rightly pointed out the lay of the land makes it even less suitable for this propose.
Regarding the Indian rhinos of coarse the area housing the cows would be more suitable. than the limited room of Gung's old paddock.

 

[Zoofan15]

I Agree of coarse Dubbo would not draw as many people as a city zoo but animal welfare comes first and the fact that they have now moved the bulk of the herd proves the city zoo idea was a flawed idea to begin with, I was against this idea before the herd ever left Thailand.
Yes I am aware of the long journey to Dubbo as I have made it many times with being a good ten plus hour drive for myself. At the end of the day having a large elephant herd at Taronga was a bad idea and as you rightly pointed out the lay of the land makes it even less suitable for this propose.
Regarding the Indian rhinos of coarse the area housing the cows would be more suitable. than the limited room of Guns old paddock.

The issue was further compounded by the breeding success at Taronga, with three calves arriving between 2009-2010. Its worth noting that there were intensive efforts to breed from the fourth cow (Tang Mo) in 2012, meaning they potentially could have had a herd of eight prior to the move to Dubbo.

It'll be interesting to see if anything eventuates with the Indian rhinoceros. In any case, I agree housing them in the main exhibit is the way to go. It allows the option of holding a pair and is future proofing for changing exhibit standards, which could see the temple exhibit unsuitable for even a single bull a decade or two from now. They need to think ahead.

 

[Jambo]

I Agree of coarse Dubbo would not draw as many people as a city zoo but animal welfare comes first and the fact that they have now moved the bulk of the herd proves the city zoo idea was a flawed idea to begin with, I was against this idea before the herd ever left Thailand.
Yes I am aware of the long journey to Dubbo as I have made it many times with being a good ten plus hour drive for myself. At the end of the day having a large elephant herd at Taronga was a bad idea and as you rightly pointed out the lay of the land makes it even less suitable for this propose.
Regarding the Indian rhinos of coarse the area housing the cows would be more suitable. than the limited room of Gung's old paddock.

Fully agree.

It just seems from a management position, moving the Thai cows to Taronga was a much better choice than moving them to Dubbo. I doubt they’d regret the initial move, but the fact they’ll (probably) soon have to make a third elephant move across NSW in a decade. Now, it seems the best option they were all just sent to Dubbo initially. But we can understand their reasoning for such a decision in the first place.

 

[Abbey]

Orangutans at Taronga Zoo

Since appearing on initial drafts of the masterplan, it appears orangutans have been scrapped. Given the appeal of great apes, I see no reason Taronga shouldn't aspire once again to holding a third species. They tick so many boxes - critically endangered, charismatic (in a mysterious way) and of course being the face of the palm oil campaign.

An elephant phase out would offer the ideal opportunity to build an exhibit in this space. The floor space of the main elelephant exhibit is 4500 m², so there's a huge space to work with. It opens up opportunities for rotational exhibits (Siamang) or even to manage multiple orangutans; as well as space to install aerial pathways.

Best of all, it assists the establishment of geographical zones, being bordered by multiple South East Asian species. Outliers such as Eastern bongo and Pygmy hippo may well be integrated into the Congo precinct.

I think the initial plan (back in the 80's) was for Melbourne to focus on Gorillas; Taronga on Chimps and Perth on Orangutans. Of course, Taronga have since gone back and obtained gorillas; but Melbourne is the region's designated breeding hub.

The plan was for Jantan and Willow to remain off display before receiving a new enclosure; this all supposedly changed when they were sent to Mogo a few years ago.

It would be nice if Taronga could join the Bornean program to support Auckland though. We already have a trio of facilities focused on Sumatrans; so Borneans have a higher desire in the region right now.

I like the idea of replacing elephants with orangutans, but the only thing is the skyfari runs directly over the top of the elephant exhibit. There'd be no space for any aerial ropes of the sort, or even towering towers and trees for them to climb. The bull enclosure would be suitable; and I guess the temple semi fits the theme, but unfortunately it wouldn't link nicely with the Asian Zone.

That's a good point about how, currently, the positioning of the Sky Safari would limit the development of aerial pathways upon the current site of the Wild Asia elephant exhibit. However, there is going to be a refurbishment of the Sky Safari in the near future (as reported in the news thread):

Upgrade to Sky Safari planned:

From socials:

Our much-loved Sky Safari is set to be transformed into an unforgettable and accessible family experience, thanks to funding from the NSW Government.

For more than a century, Taronga Zoo has been at the heart of Sydney’s community and this important project ensures our zoo remains easily accessible and welcoming for everyone for decades to come.

The Sky Safari has been a fixture of the Taronga Zoo experience since 1987 when it was first opened and was upgraded to the current experience you know and love today in 2000.

We’re really excited about this project which will provide a new, more accessible way for our guests to connect with our wildlife and iconic Sydney Harbour, all while supporting our important conservation work.

Given that it has been reported that this would include expanding the route of the Sky Safari, then its path could be moved in order to accommodate the development of an orangutan exhibit. Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see what the expansion of the Sky Safari entails - I wouldn't think that there would be that much space for a third terminal, but we'll see.

I do wonder where Taronga planned on putting the orangutan exhibit when it was included in the masterplan released in 2015. If anyone knows, I'd find that very interesting. The current site of the gorilla exhibit has been speculated in the past - the Zoo 2000 masterplan involved orangutans staying at Taronga, but likewise didn't provide a clear exhibit space for them.

According to that masterplan, the existing lemur exhibit (built for orangutans) would house spider monkeys, paired with the Helmore Aviary (now demolished) housing South American birds and agouti, and the tamarin roundhouse nearby, for a mini South American precinct. This is the area which will now be designated for the Congo Forest.

 

[Zorro]

Just a thought @Zoofan15 Perhaps who ever designed Auckland zoos outstanding award winning South east Asian precinct should have a go at Taronga up coming African rainforest?

 

[Zoofan15]

Just a thought @Zoofan15 Perhaps who ever designed Auckland zoos outstanding award winning South east Asian precinct should have a go at Taronga up coming African rainforest?

Studio Hansen Roberts (Zoo Architect)

The architect was Studio Hansen Roberts and I agree they’ve done a phenomenal job. There was input from the keepers too, which is great to see practicality wasn’t overlooked in favour of aesthetics.

Studio Hansen Roberts also designed Auckland Zoo’s Pridelands Escarpment and Werribee’s Kubu Hippo River; in addition to projects at zoos around the world.

Featured Projects — SH|R Studios

Auckland Zoo (Pridelands Enscarpment):



Werribee Open Range Zoo (Kubu River Hippos):

 

[Zorro]

Studio Hansen Roberts (Zoo Architect)

The architect was Studio Hansen Roberts and I agree they’ve done a phenomenal job. There was input from the keepers too, which is great to see practicality wasn’t overlooked in favour of aesthetics.

Studio Hansen Roberts also designed Auckland Zoo’s Pridelands Escarpment and Werribee’s Kubu Hippo River; in addition to projects at zoos around the world.

Featured Projects — SH|R Studios

Auckland Zoo (Pridelands Enscarpment):

View attachment 578483

Werribee Open Range Zoo (Kubu River Hippos):

View attachment 578484

Outstanding, Monarto could do with this for their hippo exhibit as well as Taronga African rainforest!

 

[Zoofan15]

Outstanding, Monarto could do with this for their hippo exhibit as well as Taronga African rainforest!

It’s great these zoos have had access to an architectural company that’s designed projects internationally. In the design process of Auckland’s orangutan exhibit, inspiration was taken from world class exhibits across the globe to identify features they wanted to incorporate. I have no doubt they could do amazing work at Taronga.

Taronga’s Reptile and Amphibian Conservation Centre has been designed by DWP (Design Worldwide Partnership) with landscape architecture by Context Landscape Architecture.

 

[steveroberts]

@Zoofan15

I think you're again really onto something really suitable for Sydney Taronga's future trajectory if indeed they go with the route of saying goodbye to Pak Boon and Tang Mo (which probably is for their best) that quite honestly Taronga could achieve nothing better than as you suggested transferring the area of Pak Boon & Tang Mo's current cow yard into an Orangutan habitat for either (abeli) Sumatrans or Borneans. I really strongly feel that Taronga should look into that idea and wish they would, with the 4,500 sq m space (thanks again for sourcing the measurements have been curious for over a decade) it would mean a decent amount of space, and hopefully they would wish to follow in Auckland Zoo's footsteps with those incredible high climbing poles with connecting ropes.

As with Dubbo Taronga's future steps I like your bachelor facility idea for surplus bulls.

 

[Zoofan15]

@Zoofan15

I think you're again really onto something really suitable for Sydney Taronga's future trajectory if indeed they go with the route of saying goodbye to Pak Boon and Tang Mo (which probably is for their best) that quite honestly Taronga could achieve nothing better than as you suggested transferring the area of Pak Boon & Tang Mo's current cow yard into an Orangutan habitat for either (abeli) Sumatrans or Borneans. I really strongly feel that Taronga should look into that idea and wish they would, with the 4,500 sq m space (thanks again for sourcing the measurements have been curious for over a decade) it would mean a decent amount of space, and hopefully they would wish to follow in Auckland Zoo's footsteps with those incredible high climbing poles with connecting ropes.

As with Dubbo Taronga's future steps I like your bachelor facility idea for surplus bulls.

I agree orangutans would be perfect for this area. They could build a quadrant of exhibits to house an adult male, two adult females and a pair of Siamang. The Siamang would occupy one quadrant and the orangutans could occupy three between them (separated or integrated as necessary).

The concept of rotational exhibits would be hugely stimulating for all the apes involved; and while there’s the Sky Safari to consider, as @Abbey has mentioned, the upgrade offers an opportunity to re-route it to allow for the advent of aerial pathways. Even without them, the rotational exhibits would offer fantastic enrichment.