Taronga Zoo Future of Taronga Zoo (Speculation / Fantasy)

[Zoofan15]

If we use Ekundu's enclosure and the current lower half of the elephant enclosure that would theoretically give them two additional exhibits. With that in mind, I'd imagine the two current exhibits would (and should) be combined. Considering the close proximity the off display yards could very well be at the upper half of that said elephant paddock as it's a fair amount of land space as seen in this photo:

That’s more than enough space for two Pygmy hippopotamus exhibits, with the addition of off display yards and supporting infrastructure (filtration pumps etc). I agree the two existing exhibits should be combined. They’d otherwise looked outdated and cramped next to the new exhibits; and having three spacious exhibits is better future proofing against evolving exhibit standards.

The above would allow Taronga to accomodate at least three adults (and young) across the on display exhibits; with off display yards further extending this capacity.

 

[Osedax]

They’d otherwise looked outdated and cramped next to the new exhibits;

They already look outdated and cramped!

 

[Zoofan15]

They already look outdated and cramped!

Yes, their Pygmy hippopotamus facilities are surely due for an upgrade. Melbourne’s exhibits are far nicer and are almost as old as Taronga’s. I would however like to see a series of adequate sized exhibits than one or two massive exhibits. Hamilton Zoo’s red panda exhibit is an example of a massive exhibit for a solitary species that therefore has a small holding capacity. They could easily fit three exhibits in that space.

 

[loganjmuir]

If we use Ekundu's enclosure and the current lower half of the elephant enclosure that would theoretically give them two additional exhibits. With that in mind, I'd imagine the two current exhibits would (and should) be combined. Considering the close proximity the off display yards could very well be at the upper half of that said elephant paddock as it's a fair amount of land space as seen in this photo:

I feel as though a larger combined habitat would be more suitable for this space as it is large but not wide. The slope down to it could be used as backstage. This exhibit in my opinion would be a main yard for them and the current two would be calfing yards. This is if they remain there at all, as opposed to the middle of the zoo. I think they would be better off moving them to the middle of the zoo, and creating a small Congo with Gorillas, Hippos, Lemur and Colobus.

With the Orangutans there will obviously need to be more space for them than the current elephant complex has; especially if they wish to have an aerial pathway and maintain a mixed species habitat with the likes of gibbons ect. This is probably where the consideration lies at the moment ie. where the additional space will be for a complex like this.

I thought it's worth mentioning the gorilla complex is virtually directly opposite, so would be the perfect location for this.

So in that case I think we could certainly see one of the two; A) either gorillas being phased out and orangutans inhabiting that space or, B) the gorilla habitat being expanded over the other side too with an overhead pathway connecting the two exhibits and a smaller 'congo' precinct being created there alongside the Pygmy Hippo.

I don’t think the current gorilla enclosure would be necessary for the Orangutan’s, especially as it has two outdoor enclosures. The Barn provides enough space for a backstage complex without additions in connecting exhibits. That being said, if Gorillas are phased out the Elephant Trail would be optimal for a Congo precinct, with Lemurs in the Langur exhibit and Colobus in the ex-Gibbon enclosure.

Re. the other exhibits, I'd like to see Black and White Colobus in the current Langur enclosure to align with at least the smaller Congo theme in the area (beside the Pygmy Hippos). The Langurs would be suitable for the current Lemur enclosure in the center of the zoo.

The Langurs could be a good shout in the Lemur enclosure as many people don’t visit them as it is, and Lemurs would get the spotlight they deserve in a Congo setup.

 

[Zoofan15]

I feel as though a larger combined habitat would be more suitable for this space as it is large but not wide. The slope down to it could be used as backstage. This exhibit in my opinion would be a main yard for them and the current two would be calfing yards. This is if they remain there at all, as opposed to the middle of the zoo. I think they would be better off moving them to the middle of the zoo, and creating a small Congo with Gorillas, Hippos, Lemur and Colobus.

I don’t think the current gorilla enclosure would be necessary for the Orangutan’s, especially as it has two outdoor enclosures. The Barn provides enough space for a backstage complex without additions in connecting exhibits. That being said, if Gorillas are phased out the Elephant Trail would be optimal for a Congo precinct, with Lemurs in the Langur exhibit and Colobus in the ex-Gibbon enclosure.

The Langurs could be a good shout in the Lemur enclosure as many people don’t visit them as it is, and Lemurs would get the spotlight they deserve in a Congo setup.

One option for retaining gorillas at Taronga is to maintain a small breeding troop (as opposed to a breeding troop and a bachelor troop as outlined in the plans for the Congo precinct).

The three adolescent males would transfer out (presumably to Orana); and from there, Taronga would maintain a troop of Kibali, Frala, Johari and Mbeli. Females typically don’t breed past their late 30’s, so Frala’s reproductive days are likely behind her. Combined with Johari being a behavioural non-breeder, this leaves Mbeli as the only viable female. With artificial birth intervals, she could produce young at six year intervals.

Prague Zoo castrated their last male infant, which will allow him to remain in his natal troop. Taronga could look into this to allow males to be retained (preventing the need to accomodate bachelor males on-site and alleviating the pressure on other regional holders). Female infants bred at Taronga would go into breeding troops (Kibali is a valuable male), after staying in the troop for 10-12 years to observe the raising of a younger sibling.

 

[marmolady]

Castration appears to be hit-or-miss with regards to allowing males to remain with their natal group; I'm not a fan of it as an option myself, certainly until it has been shown that it produces good welfare outcomes.

 

[loganjmuir]

One option for retaining gorillas at Taronga is to maintain a small breeding troop (as opposed to a breeding troop and a bachelor troop as outlined in the plans for the Congo precinct).

The three adolescent males would transfer out (presumably to Orana); and from there, Taronga would maintain a troop of Kibali, Frala, Johari and Mbeli. Females typically don’t breed past their late 30’s, so Frala’s reproductive days are likely behind her. Combined with Johari being a behavioural non-breeder, this leaves Mbeli as the only viable female. With artificial birth intervals, she could produce young at six year intervals.

Prague Zoo castrated their last male infant, which will allow him to remain in his natal troop. Taronga could look into this to allow males to be retained (preventing the need to accomodate bachelor males on-site and alleviating the pressure on other regional holders). Female infants bred at Taronga would go into breeding troops (Kibali is a valuable male), after staying in the troop for 10-12 years to observe the raising of a younger sibling.

There was talk about moving the male adolescents to Sydney Zoo. This is also a realistic option, and presents the opportunity to ascertain Orangutans or potentially Nyala for the savanna as was speculated.

 

[Zoofan15]

There was talk about moving the male adolescents to Sydney Zoo. This is also a realistic option, and presents the opportunity to ascertain Orangutans or potentially Nyala for the savanna as was speculated.

That would be interesting as if Sydney Zoo were to add gorillas to their collection, that would take away one of Taronga’s remaining points of difference; with a reasonable chance they will concede elephants in the near future.

Taronga Zoo have have put a lot of effort into their native precinct; but this will mainly appeal to the international market, which I believe was quoted on here once as approximately 10% of their visitor numbers. The vast majority want to see exotic megafauna, which makes the cancellation of the Congo precinct (out of all the items in their masterplan) the most surprising.

 

[Osedax]

That would be interesting as if Sydney Zoo were to add gorillas to their collection, that would take away one of Taronga’s remaining points of difference; with a reasonable chance they will concede elephants in the near future.

Taronga Zoo have have put a lot of effort into their native precinct; but this will mainly appeal to the international market, which I believe was quoted on here once as approximately 10% of their visitor numbers. The vast majority want to see exotic megafauna, which makes the cancellation of the Congo precinct (out of all the items in their masterplan) the most surprising.

Actually, I would say more than half of the people we get coming in say they want to see koalas, dingoes and platypus!

 

[Tiger91]

That would be interesting as if Sydney Zoo were to add gorillas to their collection, that would take away one of Taronga’s remaining points of difference; with a reasonable chance they will concede elephants in the near future.

Taronga Zoo have have put a lot of effort into their native precinct; but this will mainly appeal to the international market, which I believe was quoted on here once as approximately 10% of their visitor numbers. The vast majority want to see exotic megafauna, which makes the cancellation of the Congo precinct (out of all the items in their masterplan) the most surprising.

The majority of tarongas visitors are international. I have heard it quoted as high as around the 90%. It's why they put so much emphasis on native animals. They have Nura diya, back yard to bush and a strong representation of natives in there reptile collection. There overwhelming majority of there visitors want to see native animals. With most coming from countries with similar sized zoos with much more extensive exotic collections.

ETA quick google actually puts there international visitors at closure to 50%.

 

[Jambo]

There was talk about moving the male adolescents to Sydney Zoo. This is also a realistic option, and presents the opportunity to ascertain Orangutans or potentially Nyala for the savanna as was speculated.

Not likely now as they were replaced with the Orangutans eventually after Orana’s males couldn’t arrive.

If Taronga were to phase out gorillas I’d much rather see the boys down at Orana and the girls split between Mogo and Melbourne to support the troops there as each facility needs additional females.

 

[The Sleepy Hippo]

That would be interesting as if Sydney Zoo were to add gorillas to their collection, that would take away one of Taronga’s remaining points of difference; with a reasonable chance they will concede elephants in the near future.

Taronga Zoo have have put a lot of effort into their native precinct; but this will mainly appeal to the international market, which I believe was quoted on here once as approximately 10% of their visitor numbers. The vast majority want to see exotic megafauna, which makes the cancellation of the Congo precinct (out of all the items in their masterplan) the most surprising.

The 10% quoted was for international visitors to Melbourne Zoo.

Taronga's percentage I dare say would be higher - it is a far more iconic zoo, right on the harbour.

 

[Zoofan15]

The 10% quoted was for international visitors to Melbourne Zoo.

Taronga's percentage I dare say would be higher - it is a far more iconic zoo, right on the harbour.

I’ve looked it up and found 30% quoted for 2001 and 40% for 2015 and 2018, which is interesting. There’s been a post-Covid travel boom, so those figures could even be higher for this year.

It’ll be interesting to see how Sydney Zoo impacts upon those statistics. There will be local people who now visit Sydney Zoo instead of Taronga; while there’s no doubt Taronga maintains international prestige. I don’t know anybody outside of NSW/the zoo world, who has visited Sydney Zoo.

 

[Osedax]

I don’t know anybody outside of NSW/the zoo world, who has visited Sydney Zoo.

That may be so, but there are so many people that go to Sydney Zoo for their non-animal related events. Basically what I have seen is that most people living an hour or more away from Taronga (as I do) will go to Sydney Zoo, with Taronga now mostly reserved to international visitors and people who live in the city. Even people who wouldn't normally go to a zoo now go to Sydney Zoo.

 

[Osedax]

Not likely now as they were replaced with the Orangutans eventually after Orana’s males couldn’t arrive.

If Taronga were to phase out gorillas I’d much rather see the boys down at Orana and the girls split between Mogo and Melbourne to support the troops there as each facility needs additional females.

They were not replaced with orangutans, rather spider monkeys. The spider monkeys are no longer at the zoo, and the capuchins moved onto that island once the capybaras they were mixed with started breeding. Now that the capybaras have their own exhibit elsewhere in the zoo, they have been replaced on their island by lemurs. This now leaves primate boulevard with the following: lemurs (on the former capybara/capuchin island) and baboons on the right; and chimps, and capuchins (on the planned gorilla island) on the left. The orangs are behind the chimps.

 

[Zoofan15]

They were not replaced with orangutans, rather spider monkeys. The spider monkeys are no longer at the zoo, and the capuchins moved onto that island once the capybaras they were mixed with started breeding. Now that the capybaras have their own exhibit elsewhere in the zoo, they have been replaced on their island by lemurs. This now leaves primate boulevard with the following: lemurs (on the former capybara/capuchin island) and baboons on the right; and chimps, and capuchins (on the planned gorilla island) on the left. The orangs are behind the chimps.

So theoretically the capuchins could be shuffled off somewhere and replaced with the bachelor gorilla males from Taronga. Sydney Zoo presumably won’t want to breed Capybara indefinitely, so a reintegration could be possible; or a phase out of capuchins altogether. I mean they’re alright, but nobody visits a zoo to see capuchins; while gorillas would be a huge crowd puller.

Taronga would likely be in favour of this transfer too, since their adolescents are at dispersal age and will need to go sooner rather than later.

 

[Osedax]

So theoretically the capuchins could be shuffled off somewhere and replaced with the bachelor gorilla males from Taronga. Sydney Zoo presumably won’t want to breed Capybara indefinitely, so a reintegration could be possible; or a phase out of capuchins altogether. I mean they’re alright, but nobody visits a zoo to see capuchins; while gorillas would be a huge crowd puller.

Taronga would likely be in favour of this transfer too, since their adolescents are at dispersal age and will need to go sooner rather than later.

The capuchins would most likely have to leave the zoo, which would be a shame considering their reasonable breeding record. They could not be mixed in with the capybaras; they would escape that new exhibit in a heartbeat!

 

[Jambo]

They were not replaced with orangutans, rather spider monkeys. The spider monkeys are no longer at the zoo, and the capuchins moved onto that island once the capybaras they were mixed with started breeding. Now that the capybaras have their own exhibit elsewhere in the zoo, they have been replaced on their island by lemurs. This now leaves primate boulevard with the following: lemurs (on the former capybara/capuchin island) and baboons on the right; and chimps, and capuchins (on the planned gorilla island) on the left. The orangs are behind the chimps.

Yeah I was more so referring to original plans which were for Chimps and Gorillas to be housed there (not orangutans). Obviously it’s likely Sydney added an additional exhibit as a complacency for the possibility gorillas are able to be acquired down the line - which would make things easier for them.

The Lemurs were in fact from Taronga if I can remember correctly, so it would be fairly simple to swap them back in exchange for some bachelor male gorillas.

 

[Abbey]

Yeah I was more so referring to original plans which were for Chimps and Gorillas to be housed there (not orangutans). Obviously it’s likely Sydney added an additional exhibit as a complacency for the possibility gorillas are able to be acquired down the line - which would make things easier for them.

The Lemurs were in fact from Taronga if I can remember correctly, so it would be fairly simple to swap them back in exchange for some bachelor male gorillas.

It was the squirrel monkeys which (at least some of them) came from Taronga, the lemurs came from Hamilton (males) and Monarto (females).

 

[Jambo]

It was the squirrel monkeys which (at least some of them) came from Taronga, the lemurs came from Hamilton (males) and Monarto (females).

Oh yes, thank you. I was the one who emailed Sydney to find out where the lemurs came from.

That would mean the Lemurs are a breeding troop then as I recall that being mentioned in the email, which obviously indicates a long term commitment to this species.