Taronga Zoo Future of Taronga Zoo (Speculation / Fantasy)

[Zoofan15]

If they do intend to go the route of Pygmy Hippos here, I'd hope they plan to construct at least one indoor enclosure in the barn too (with viewing). The size of the elephant barn would easily allow this.

This would effectively also allow two sizeable enclosures to be built on the outside; with a third off display behind the barn.

Yes, that would not only be enriching for visitors but fulfil a practical purpose in allowing Taronga to retain offspring bred on site into adulthood.

By the time Taronga receive an Australian bred bull (assuming that’s the plan), who then matures to breeding age and produces young, the breeding pair at DDZ and possibly Melbourne would have well and truly established themselves as suppliers to other zoos within the region, who will have little incentive to import Taronga bred calves. Unless they can accomodate their own surplus, they may not otherwise get breeding recommendations.

 

[Jambo]

Yes, that would not only be enriching for visitors but fulfil a practical purpose in allowing Taronga to retain offspring bred on site into adulthood.

By the time Taronga receive an Australian bred bull (assuming that’s the plan), who then matures to breeding age and produces young, the breeding pair at DDZ and possibly Melbourne would have well and truly established themselves as suppliers to other zoos within the region, who will have little incentive to import Taronga bred calves. Unless they can accomodate their own surplus, they may not otherwise get breeding recommendations.

I do wonder (had Fergus not passed), whether there was an intended destination for Lololi. Melbourne would've obviously made the most sense but if they knew the IRA was on the verge of being passed last year, perhaps there was instead a new holder that was willing to take her on.

Taronga don't have the space to accommodate more than a pair of pygmy hippos permanently within their current facilities - even multiple adults in one exhibit.

 

[Zoofan15]

I do wonder (had Fergus not passed), whether there was an intended destination for Lololi. Melbourne would've obviously made the most sense but if they knew the IRA was on the verge of being passed last year, perhaps there was instead a new holder that was willing to take her on.

Taronga don't have the space to accommodate more than a pair of pygmy hippos permanently within their current facilities - even multiple adults in one exhibit.

It wouldn’t have surprised me to have seen Lololi transfer to Melbourne (non-breeding) for a few years had the IRA not been processed so quickly (once it got started), which now gives Melbourne the opportunity to import a female.

Either way, with the IRA coming up, I doubt Fergus and Kambiri would have bred again. They have two surviving offspring, which is more than sufficient representation given the size of the regional population. Additional calves would only fulfill a demographic quota vis a vis new holders - which will be redundant once the import/s come through.

 

[Jambo]

Either way, with the IRA coming up, I doubt Fergus and Kambiri would have bred again. They have two surviving offspring, which is more than sufficient representation given the size of the regional population. Additional calves would only fulfill a demographic quota vis a vis new holders - which will be redundant once the import/s come through.

I was only told they received a repeat recommendation following the passing of their last calf, and it does seem like Taronga were only merely breeding them to sustain the regional population long term.

Keep in mind, five years ago the IRA was nowhere near completion and with only five pygmy hippos, numbers would've been needed to ensure that the population would be sustained in the future until the IRA would be passed (allowing for new imports). We're quite lucky it came sooner than a lot of us expected.

 

[Zoofan15]

I was only told they received a repeat recommendation following the passing of their last calf, and it does seem like Taronga were only merely breeding them to sustain the regional population long term.

Keep in mind, five years ago the IRA was nowhere near completion and with only five pygmy hippos, numbers would've been needed to ensure that the population would be sustained in the future until the IRA would be passed (allowing for new imports). We're quite lucky it came sooner than a lot of us expected.

It was to be expected that following the passing of Amara a repeat breeding recommendation had changed as there had otherwise been no change to the regional population.

By the time Lololi was born (January 2024), those in the industry would have had a clear indication that the IRA was progressing to give enough confidence to not issue a further breeding recommendation for Fergus and Kambiri. Whether one or both of them could have been re-paired with new mates long term is something we’ll never know - but a female with Felix would have appeared the obvious move either way; and Kambiri’s line will continue via her daughters, so I’m tempted to say both Fergus and Kambiri would have been retired.

 

[Jambo]

Kambiri’s line will continue via her daughters, so I’m tempted to say both Fergus and Kambiri would have been retired.

I imagine Kambiri will indeed be retired now. Whether that means eventually she'll be moved off to a non breeding holder once a first generation bull can be acquired for Lololi, remains to be foreseen.

Taronga do have five or years to figure out what they plan to do with this species and whether a new complex is warranted. If so, you'd hope the new complex would have three to four exhibits which would allow Kambiri to still be accommodated at Taronga.

 

[Zoofan15]

I imagine Kambiri will indeed be retired now. Whether that means eventually she'll be moved off to a non breeding holder once a first generation bull can be acquired for Lololi, remains to be foreseen.

Taronga do have five or years to figure out what they plan to do with this species and whether a new complex is warranted. If so, you'd hope the new complex would have three to four exhibits which would allow Kambiri to still be accommodated at Taronga.

Taronga advised me they plan to retain both Kambiri and Lololi for the foreseeable, which indicates no plans to import a bull at this stage.

While Kambiri is only 15 years old (and cows can easily breed into the 30’s), I too would anticipate they’d continue breeding via Lololi. Though I hope it won’t take two and a half decades, her grandmother had her first calf at 24 years of age, so there’s no rush.

 

[Tiger91]

With Adelaide after an Aus born from the imports. It would make sense for DDZ and Melbourne to import and breed. Then for Taronga to and Adelaide to gain what they need from these imports. It would allow them to breed more freely.
It has been mentioned that Taronga want to build pygmy hippo enclosures, of memory even one of the zoo TV program episodes that featured them mentioned that the zoo wanted to build new purpose built enclosures. Hopefully they will be smart and build enough to house at least 1:2. In saying that the current enclosures are not overly small in land area they are not designed with appropriate pools. So hopefully a new exhibit/s for them won't be a huge space sink which will make it more viable.

I still think if they were smart. They would build the exhibits to house colobus with them, like some other zoos house primates with them. That way the money and space is better utilised.

 

[Zoofan15]

With Adelaide after an Aus born from the imports. It would make sense for DDZ and Melbourne to import and breed. Then for Taronga to and Adelaide to gain what they need from these imports. It would allow them to breed more freely.
It has been mentioned that Taronga want to build pygmy hippo enclosures, of memory even one of the zoo TV program episodes that featured them mentioned that the zoo wanted to build new purpose built enclosures. Hopefully they will be smart and build enough to house at least 1:2. In saying that the current enclosures are not overly small in land area they are not designed with appropriate pools. So hopefully a new exhibit/s for them won't be a huge space sink which will make it more viable.

I still think if they were smart. They would build the exhibits to house colobus with them, like some other zoos house primates with them. That way the money and space is better utilised.

You’re correct that it’s been reported on here that Taronga want to build a new Pygmy hippopotamus exhibit. It hasn’t been stated where this will be, but will hopefully take the form of a complex, allowing a minimum of a breeding pair; but ideally the room to accomodate offspring into adulthood.

Most of us seem to agree the site of Gung’s old exhibit would be perfect - both in terms of space and flat terrain. There would be room to build at least three exhibits there.

 

[Jambo]

Yes, it will be weird to see Taronga without elephants.

Knowing it would probably never happen, id love to see them do the original expansion of the elephant paddock down onto the lawns where the condors used to be and become a bull holding facility. They do actually have the room its whether they are willing to utilise it over cafes etc. We all know its highly unlikely to be used for other species.

Whereabouts in the zoo would this be? Where the Condors still are?

 

[steveroberts]

..Knowing it would probably never happen, id love to see them do the original expansion of the elephant paddock down onto the lawns where the condors used to be and become a bull holding facility. They do actually have the room its whether they are willing to utilise it over cafes etc. We all know its highly unlikely to be used for other species.

Where the condor still is...

Less utilised lawn and native garden space at the bottom of the zoo to direct south-east of the condor aviary and the bird show lawn (pretty sure they are intended to remain long-term) and to the south-west of the rainforest trail. There is a gazebo on the site though. One of few remaining non-utlised spots in the grounds which doesnt appear to be too uneven terrain conserved as natural bushland.

Google Maps

 

[Zoofan15]

Another species I would expect to see in the future is Okapi and yes currently unable to import but I fully expect that Taronga will import as soon as its able too, I also would be surprised if any other zoo/s would become a holder of them in the region.

Following their elephant phase out, I was so disappointed when Auckland Zoo announced they’d merely be extending the rhino habitat, rather than taking the opportunity to build something new (like the African forest precinct they had considered). It would have been the ideal opportunity to import Okapi.

Taronga Zoo could in turn have imported a pair of Okapi via Auckland Zoo, who being in New Zealand, are able to import them. They could have even done the same for Melbourne, giving the region three holders.

 

[Zorro]

Following their elephant phase out, I was so disappointed when Auckland Zoo announced they’d merely be extending the rhino habitat, rather than taking the opportunity to build something new (like the African forest precinct they had considered). It would have been the ideal opportunity to import Okapi.

Taronga Zoo could in turn have imported a pair of Okapi via Auckland Zoo, who being in New Zealand, are able to import them. They could have even done the same for Melbourne, giving the region three holders.

Without trying to sound negative if not a single zoo in New Zealand has imported (outside of the Aust/NZ population) a Giraffe yet the chance of them importing Okapi are very slim!

 

[Zoofan15]

Without trying to sound negative if not a single zoo in New Zealand has imported (outside of the Aust/NZ population) a Giraffe yet the chance of them importing Okapi are very slim!

I agree. None of New Zealand’s four main zoos currently have plans to import Okapi or Giraffe.

I’m especially disappointed the opportunity isn’t being taken by Hamilton to import female giraffe from outside the region. With an elderly male giraffe (born 2002); and a young male giraffe (born 2022), they’re at the perfect cross-roads to begin a breeding herd. Yes, somebody has to be a bachelor holder; but maybe not the only zoo in the region who has both the ability to import and the space (New Zealand’s other main zoos are at capacity).

Rather than Australian zoos continuing to churn out more inbred giraffe calves, this could have been a perfect opportunity to bring in new genetics.

 

[Zorro]

I agree. None of New Zealand’s four main zoos currently have plans to import Okapi or Giraffe.

I’m especially disappointed the opportunity isn’t being taken by Hamilton to import female giraffe from outside the region. With an elderly male giraffe (born 2002); and a young male giraffe (born 2022), they’re at the perfect cross-roads to begin a breeding herd. Yes, somebody has to be a bachelor holder; but maybe not the only zoo in the region who has both the ability to import and the space (New Zealand’s other main zoos are at capacity).

Rather than Australian zoos continuing to churn out more inbred giraffe calves, this could have been a perfect opportunity to bring in new genetics.

Absolutely agree there seems to be a lack of real interest among some our zoo managers!

 

[Jambo]

Absolutely agree there seems to be a lack of real interest among some our zoo managers!

The region is content with maintaining a generic, related population at the moment.

The cost/logistics of importing are the biggest issue. Being so far from Europe/USA, importing Giraffes from those regions would be a huge task considering they would have to come across on a boat.

The only driver for a potential import would be if the region was to switch to a purebred breeding program, but even that is unlikely when you consider the amount of imports that would require from the aforementioned regions.

 

[Zorro]

The region is content with maintaining a generic, related population at the moment.

The cost/logistics of importing are the biggest issue. Being so far from Europe/USA, importing Giraffes from those regions would be a huge task considering they would have to come across on a boat.

The only driver for a potential import would be if the region was to switch to a purebred breeding program, but even that is unlikely when you consider the amount of imports that would require from the aforementioned regions.

I would have called it badly inbred population rather than related. I believe Melbourne zoo imported a young female pure bred from Holland some years ago and it was transported by plane so it is likely that can be done again. Even if one was imported each by our major zoos would make a big difference, how much more in-breeding can they do and still keep the population healthy?

 

[Zoofan15]

I would have called it badly inbred population rather than related. I believe Melbourne zoo imported a young female pure bred from Holland some years ago and it was transported by plane so it is likely that can be done again. Even if one was imported each by our major zoos would make a big difference, how much more in-breeding can they do and still keep the population healthy?

That’s correct. The giraffe in question was Twiga (1996), who was imported in 1997 and was the last giraffe to be imported into the region. No new blood in 28 years!

I had hoped (since Australia can’t import directly from any country bar New Zealand) that New Zealand zoos would even quarantine young giraffes to be sent on to Australia (third party arrangement); or import founders, with first generation offspring sent on to Australia.

 

[Jambo]

That’s correct. The giraffe in question was Twiga (1996), who was imported in 1997 and was the last giraffe to be imported into the region. No new blood in 28 years!

I had hoped (since Australia can’t import directly from any country bar New Zealand) that New Zealand zoos would even quarantine young giraffes to be sent on to Australia (third party arrangement); or import founders, with first generation offspring sent on to Australia.

It's important to note that this import was for the continuation of the purebred Rothschild's population. That regional purebred population was eventually discontinued.

Now that the region is focused on holding a generic population I would be very, very surprised if the ZAA saw the benefit of investing in new genetics!

 

[Zoofan15]

It's important to note that this import was for the continuation of the purebred Rothschild's population. That regional purebred population was eventually discontinued.

Now that the region is focused on holding a generic population I would be very, very surprised if the ZAA saw the benefit of investing in new genetics!

The Rothschild’s breeding programme was abandoned due to the high relatedness of the population. It descended from Orana’s import of 1.1 in 1982 (which were already closely related); with that herd then supplying Perth with 1.2 (all descended from that pair).

Presumably the import of the cow by Melbourne in 1997 was to be the first of many additions to the breeding programme; but the curtain came down on importing giraffes shortly after and the choices were continue to inbreed or use the Rothschild’s to enhance the genetics of the (increasingly inbred) genetic population. They chose the latter.