Taronga Zoo Future of Taronga Zoo (Speculation / Fantasy)

[steveroberts]

It's interesting considering giraffes are beginning to be classified as a genus of at least 4 species now, rather than just 1 species (made up of very diverse subspecies). So if that theory turns out to be true, then the giraffes in Australasia are similar to mixed species origin orangutans like Gabby, Jantan and Willow.

 

[Zoofan15]

It's interesting considering giraffes are beginning to be classified as a genus of at least 4 species now, rather than just 1 species (made up of very diverse subspecies). So if that theory turns out to be true, then the giraffes in Australasia are similar to mixed species origin orangutans like Gabby, Jantan and Willow.

That’s really interesting as we got three of the four species right off the bat with the Taronga founders (from which nearly every giraffe in the region is descended):

0.1 Mighty (born 1933 in Tanzania) - Masai Giraffe (G. c. tippelskirchi).

1.0 Jan Smuts (born 1943 at Johannesburg Zoo) - South African giraffe (G. c. giraffe).

0.1 Clara (born 1950 at the Smithsonian National Zoo) - Nubian Giraffe (G. c. camelopardalis).

 

[steveroberts]

That’s really interesting as we got three of the four species right off the bat with the Taronga founders (from which nearly every giraffe in the region is descended):

0.1 Mighty (born 1933 in Tanzania) - Masai Giraffe (G. c. tippelskirchi).

1.0 Jan Smuts (born 1943 at Johannesburg Zoo) - South African giraffe (G. c. giraffe).

0.1 Clara (born 1950 at the Smithsonian National Zoo) - Nubian Giraffe (G. c. camelopardalis).

Yeah true, great info, had forgotten exactly which of the Taronga founders was which subspecies/species actually. They're (whoever 'they''re are lol, zoologists, dna analysers etc. Well some of them. Am sure there are plenty of zoologists out there who dismiss the theory still) implying that Rothschild's and Nubians are the same species (northern giraffe) along with West African. And that South African giraffes are the most numerous of the 'southern giraffe' (think Angolan giraffe is other one lumped with them) and that Masai giraffes and reticulated giraffes are their own species. If our region got lots of unrelated Rothschild's magically to contribute to the vast majority percentage of the regions future population then would reach a percentage of species or subspecies origin that would be acceptable for classifying as being in essence that type of giraffe (98-99%)...except that have so many import ban ''roadblocks'' in our region its crazy makingly frustrating.

 

[steveroberts]

Taronga could scrap the new sky rail project and import everything we wished for and still have money to spend. Imports are not as costly as some of these projects that are costing upwards of 70 mil to undertake. The eco resort also costed 64 million, the new teaching vet hospital is 80 million to build. While yes they use it for the animals and wildlife. There is a very large element of using it to teach and create an income from it. And this is only examples from Taronga. Not to mention all the money put into the office hours of planning etc that are not quoted in those costs which are also significant.

If you add up all the costs of projects for non animal related expansions and how much space they are dedicated. Especially if they are able to produce income of their own throughout the majour zoos. Money is not a factor, the issue is the zoo's are being run by corporate executives who are more interested in development of non animal areas into there own income makers under the guise of doing it for 'education' or 'accomodation experiances' or food and entertainment. While maintaining the minimum amount of a species they can while operating under the guise of being a zoo. They simply dont care to import new species or new genetics until it is absolutely necessary, even better if they can do a quiet replacement for an already common species IE sheep and camels taking up space at Taronga, Dingoes ate Melbourne etc.

Disagree with you about the new vet hospital, it and the planned teaching element of is extremely important and worth every cent of that 80 million $s, although costly it's meaningful. While its costly also with the Sky Safari, its been a part of the Taronga experience for over 30 years until recently and they obviously have decided it worth the funds. While agree in a lot of ways about the Eco Resort, guess it does make money for the Taronga organisation which they do put back into conservation and the zoo. Think this is pretty much ''as good as it will get'' with Taronga Zoo going forward from here, probably a few returning or new species over the next decade, but think will only be a few. They're very much on a minimising their species number for a reduced amount of chosen species to continue with.

Think any new animal precincts will be a few years away now, as Taronga goes through big build up phases and then stops again for a while, like the 2002-2008 one, then started up again in 2015/2016 (was a few inbetween but was more 'makeovers' of old exhibits like the old seal pools for playground and lemurs/capybaras, and the old dingo exhibit for the tree kangaroos, old cat house into Tassie devils exhibit complex, old pygmy hippo yards for meerkats and fennec foxes - latter replaced now anyway).

**as much as would like to of seen like a South American precinct say or Indian/Himalayan one, in place of the 'wildlife retreat' won't lie.

 

[Jambo]

Id like to think they're not staring down the barrel of a phase out, But if Taronga jump on this South American train, instead of redeveloping the old bull elephant exhibit and surrounds. I can see them switching wild Asia into wild South America. The only thing stopping this would be the Indian rhino. All species there in the complex have an equivalent swap out of South American origin. Bar the otters.

I do think we may see a more 'generic' Rainforest section being pursued at the very least. Ekundu the Bongo is also ageing as is the remaining Fishing Cat, so theoretically Taronga could have two empty exhibits along the trail in the not too distant future.

The Indian Rhino wouldn't 'technically' be apart of the Wild Asia trail, in the instance Taronga pursue that direction. But it would require Taronga at least building new Pygmy Hippo exhibits elsewhere; Gung's former paddock being the perfect location.

 

[Tiger91]

I do think we may see a more 'generic' Rainforest section being pursued at the very least. Ekundu the Bongo is also ageing as is the remaining Fishing Cat, so theoretically Taronga could have two empty exhibits along the trail in the not too distant future.

The Indian Rhino wouldn't 'technically' be apart of the Wild Asia trail, in the instance Taronga pursue that direction. But it would require Taronga at least building new Pygmy Hippo exhibits elsewhere; Gung's former paddock being the perfect location.

Id love for them to build new pygmy hippo enclosures there and integrate colobus with them. They have the space and the ability to do it. Zoo's over seas have done various mixed species enclosures. Colobus and pygmy hippo would be one that the zoo could pull of, it would also make for a far more engaging enclosure.
If all enclosures were made to be mixed, they could then handle more colobus and house them more effectively. Especially if they were to breed.

Moving the pygmy hippos, would also allow the zoo to reacquire tapir. They could take the extra shading of to allow more natural light and sun. The exhibits were built for the Malayans, so conversion to Brazilian would be that much or really needed at all. Especially as the Malayans are larger. There also a large species that would go well on the trail.

 

[Jambo]

I know this discussion doesn't necessarily surround 'Taronga' - but I'll continue it here since it mainly extended from discussions about management of their species.

Part of the issue is other larger zoo's not wanting to import. Until Darling downs and altina started importing more animals/species. Thee was a fairly large disinterest in importation of species.

That can be said with most species - but not in the cases @Zorro mentioned. There are a lot of facilities open to import/acquire animals, but are being shut down!

Let's be real, the sun bears were always going to fail. The zoo's imported animals from rescues/rescued from animals stuck in illegal trade of memory. The feel good story was there and a 'win' for conservation. However, these animals come with a host of issues and behavioural non breeding is an issue the region has faced. It's been mentioned that attaining new animals is an issue to there stagnation. The reality is they could acquire sun bears from the same conditions and try again. But they are after animals that are able to form and maintain a breeding population. Something that is harder to acquire and will take exponentially more time.

At this rate, it may be a better idea then sitting there with none!. Surely some of the sanctuaries having breeding animals they would be happy to shift.

It was reported (last year I think) that most sanctuaries in Asia are currently rife with TB so that rules out them being considered as options for potential import. Furthermore, a lot of the bears that were initially rescued had/have behavioural problems which has impacted their abilities to breed. So there's ultimately little application for them within a breeding program.

Populations in Europe and North America also aren't doing too well - so it's hard to see where a future for Sun Bears regionally lie.

 

[Jambo]

Id love for them to build new pygmy hippo enclosures there and integrate colobus with them. They have the space and the ability to do it. Zoo's over seas have done various mixed species enclosures. Colobus and pygmy hippo would be one that the zoo could pull of, it would also make for a far more engaging enclosure.
If all enclosures were made to be mixed, they could then handle more colobus and house them more effectively. Especially if they were to breed.

Moving the pygmy hippos, would also allow the zoo to reacquire tapir. They could take the extra shading of to allow more natural light and sun. The exhibits were built for the Malayans, so conversion to Brazilian would be that much or really needed at all. Especially as the Malayans are larger. There also a large species that would go well on the trail.

Especially the way that the Colobus breeding program is going right now - Taronga could absolutely afford to look into a bachelor group at the very least.

The former bull elephant enclosure has enough space for two reasonable sized on display enclosures, alongside a third off display enclosure which would allow them to facilitate breeding quite well. The Colobus's could easily have access to both enclosures - it would certainly make an intriguing mixed species display.

If the current 'Wild Asia' area is to become South American themed as we have speculated, I absolutely do think that Brazilian Tapirs could return to Taronga in replacement of the Pygmy Hippos. Although in that case, I do think merging Ekundu's current enclosure with the current complex will be a necessity.

 

[Zoofan15]

It was reported (last year I think) that most sanctuaries in Asia are currently rife with TB so that rules out them being considered as options for potential import. Furthermore, a lot of the bears that were initially rescued had/have behavioural problems which has impacted their abilities to breed. So there's ultimately little application for them within a breeding program.

Populations in Europe and North America also aren't doing too well - so it's hard to see where a future for Sun Bears regionally lie.

Steve Robinson reported in January 2024 that the species coordinator had been actively trying to source suitable sun bears, but had hit a roadblock so to speak due to their lack of availability. The TB issue makes sourcing them from traditional sources unviable at this point in time; and like you say, they’re hardly thriving in Europe, while being phased out of North America. Europe has only had one male cub born in the last decade and they’re hardly gonna part with him.

It’s a great shame Wellington’s Sasa will never breed as Wellington attributed her mother Chomel’s twin births in the 90’s to her being a twin herself (sun bears more commonly have one cub) and being a maternally linked gene, Sasa is the last of that line (i.e. Taronga’s Mary is Chomel’s granddaughter, but via Chomel’s son Arataki).

 

[Zoofan15]

Id love for them to build new pygmy hippo enclosures there and integrate colobus with them. They have the space and the ability to do it. Zoo's over seas have done various mixed species enclosures. Colobus and pygmy hippo would be one that the zoo could pull of, it would also make for a far more engaging enclosure.
If all enclosures were made to be mixed, they could then handle more colobus and house them more effectively. Especially if they were to breed.

Moving the pygmy hippos, would also allow the zoo to reacquire tapir. They could take the extra shading of to allow more natural light and sun. The exhibits were built for the Malayans, so conversion to Brazilian would be that much or really needed at all. Especially as the Malayans are larger. There also a large species that would go well on the trail.

Brazilian tapir are the natural fit for Taronga’s Pygmy hippopotamus exhibits, which are considered small by today’s standards for the hippos. A new Pygmy hippopotamus complex was reported to be outlined in Taronga’s plans and I think we can all agree Gung’s old exhibit would be the perfect location - also tying in with a new Western lowland gorilla exhibit.

The Sumatran tigers are highly popular (as are the lions, pinnipeds, sun bears and chimpanzees); but after the recently departed elephants, most would consider the gorillas the stars of Taronga Zoo. Investing in a new complex to enable regular breeding would not only be beneficial to the regional breeding programme, but a good investment in terms of public engagement.

 

[Steve Robinson]

There are a lot of facilities open to import/acquire animals, but are being shut down!

Please explain??

 

[Zoofan15]

(Not to go off track) Taronga and the San Diego zoo have had a very long history of animal transfers and my "guess" would be that when the Australian IRA is finally done for Giraffe/Okapi I would say that I would not be in "shock" if the Transfer then took place I believe it maybe "on ice" rather than abandoned!

That’s entirely possible and certainly something we’d all like to see happen.

I’ve long been of the opinion that the best course of action would be for Taronga, Melbourne and Auckland to each import a pair. Aside from offering contingencies for re-matching underperforming pairs, it would allow matches between first generation Australasian bred Okapi.

Taronga’s Congo precinct isn’t happening anytime soon, so that will hopefully give them time to reassess - same for Auckland and Melbourne Zoo with their elephant exhibits.

 

[Zorro]

That’s entirely possible and certainly something we’d all like to see happen.

I’ve long been of the opinion that the best course of action would be for Taronga, Melbourne and Auckland to each import a pair. Aside from offering contingencies for re-matching underperforming pairs, it would allow matches between first generation Australasian bred Okapi.

Taronga’s Congo precinct isn’t happening anytime soon, so that will hopefully give them time to reassess - same for Auckland and Melbourne Zoo with their elephant exhibits.

I agree with you a good idea to have a pair in each of them but don't be surprised "if" only Taronga held them!

 

[Zoofan15]

I agree with you a good idea to have a pair in each of them but don't be surprised "if" only Taronga held them!

Auckland would have been invaluable as an import/quarantine facility with the Okapi then being sent on to Australia; but should Taronga go it alone, then they’ll likely have to wait for the Giraffe/Okapi IRA to be completed for Australia.

If Taronga are the only holder, it’d be interesting to see whether any calves are immediately recalled back to the US; or whether other Australian holders would acquire them, with the long term plan being for them to import mates from the US or Europe.

 

[Jambo]

If Taronga are the only holder, it’d be interesting to see whether any calves are immediately recalled back to the US.

It's likely that in this case - Taronga will operate as a non breeding facility, potentially taking on one or two surplus bachelor males. Sending individuals back and forth would be a logistical nightmare.

 

[Zoofan15]

It's likely that in this case - Taronga will operate as a non breeding facility, potentially taking on one or two surplus bachelor males. Sending individuals back and forth would be a logistical nightmare.

Taronga’s original plans outlined an exhibit for a male and female Okapi; but that may have been with the expectation other zoos (namely Auckland and Melbourne would be coming on board).

I hope irregardless Taronga will proceed with a Congo precinct. The gorillas were planned to be the stars from the beginning and as enamoured as we’d all be with Okapi, the general public would be far more impressed with gorillas (which are now the zoo’s main attraction).

 

[Zorro]

Auckland would have been invaluable as an import/quarantine facility with the Okapi then being sent on to Australia; but should Taronga go it alone, then they’ll likely have to wait for the Giraffe/Okapi IRA to be completed for Australia.

If Taronga are the only holder, it’d be interesting to see whether any calves are immediately recalled back to the US; or whether other Australian holders would acquire them, with the long term plan being for them to import mates from the US or Europe.

I agree It would be a good option. My guess "if" they had a pair and they bred I would guess the same thing would happen as what is now happening with the Indian rhinos but only in reverse a transfer to a sister zoo! Lets first see what happens to the young bull Indian rhino that is being taken to TZ and see if they just keep him as a display animal or find and pair him with a unrelated female to form another pair, The other option and less likely transfer him to another Australian zoo!

 

[Zorro]

Taronga’s original plans outlined an exhibit for a male and female Okapi; but that may have been with the expectation other zoos (namely Auckland and Melbourne would be coming on board).

I hope irregardless Taronga will proceed with a Congo precinct. The gorillas were planned to be the stars from the beginning and as enamoured as we’d all be with Okapi, the general public would be far more impressed with gorillas (which are now the zoo’s main attraction).

My guess is they would not settle for anything less than a pair.

 

[Zoofan15]

I agree It would be a good option. My guess "if" they had a pair and they bred I would guess the same thing would happen as what is now happening with the Indian rhinos but only in reverse a transfer to a sister zoo! Lets first see what happens to the young bull Indian rhino that is being taken to TZ and see if they just keep him as a display animal or find and pair him with a unrelated female to form another pair, The other option and less likely transfer him to another Australian zoo!

I really hope Taronga Zoo import a female Indian rhinoceros to pair with Hari and that the Asian water buffalo are purely there as companions until he reaches maturity. Taronga’s exhibit is the perfect set up for a breeding pair of Indian rhinoceros.

In addition, I hope we’ll see a full scale redevelopment of Gung’s exhibit space - preferably for Pygmy hippopotamus to compliment an expansion of the Western lowland gorilla exhibit.

 

[Jambo]

I agree It would be a good option. My guess "if" they had a pair and they bred I would guess the same thing would happen as what is now happening with the Indian rhinos but only in reverse a transfer to a sister zoo! Lets first see what happens to the young bull Indian rhino that is being taken to TZ and see if they just keep him as a display animal or find and pair him with a unrelated female to form another pair, The other option and less likely transfer him to another Australian zoo!

Taking into account the layout of the current complex at Taronga, they would be primed to import a mate for Hari and breed. It appears in the meantime the plan is to accompany him with Water Buffalo, but this could just be a contingency until an eventual import is made.

The regions beginning to gear up on overseas imports to re-stock current populations - Indian Rhinos could certainly do with additional imports too.