Bronx Zoo Future of the Bronx Zoo

[Ituri]

Thank you very much for a civil, thought-out, and well-expressed reply. This is the kind of discussion I like to have.

Okay, go ahead. Disagree ...

Just a bystander in this one, but I would like to point out that your ending statement doesn't encourage what you state you wish for in the first sentence. Your finishing statement comes across as combatative and as such, will only garner combatative responses. This board is a great place with a varied group of people with varied ideas and thoughts. Don't go looking for fights where one does not need be.

 

[Zoo Visitor]

...
I would like to see this discussion be less about idealistic "ought to's" and more about recognizing realities and being constructive (take note zoo visitor!). There is the implication here that these zoo administrators and incompetant, evil or ignorant. I won't say none of them are, but the blithe superiority and moral highground claiming is offensive...

I certainly didn't mean to imply that ANY zoo administrators are incompetent, evil, or ignorant. I just believe they are allowing themselves to be led in the wrong direction rather than being the kinds of leaders they can and should be, and, frankly, that they are paid to be.

And I'm not sure how many great successes were ever achieved by focusing on realities. Great leaders focus on a vision of what ought to be, or at least what they want to be. And then they make it happen.

As much as I hate to use them as an example (since they hate zoos), I have to admire the methods people who run some of the animal sanctuaries use. They succeed by appealing to people's heartstrings, and by creating mental connections between the animals in their care and all those who support them.

They inspire staff to work for them for very low wages, and people from all over to volunteer. They also inspire philanthropists to contribute to their cause. I haven't heard of any of the established sanctuaries sending away animals in these financially tough times. They literally give the impression that they would themselves starve before they would do that.

If wishing zoo leaders would show that kind of passion and inspire that kind of committment is taking a moral highground, then I guess that is what I am doing, and I'm not going to back down on it.

But, I do not want my statements to be described as "blithely superior". So I will try to figure out exactly what I have said that deserved that comment and refrain from saying anything like it again.

 

[Zoo Visitor]

I think your asking these questions because it bothers you a zoo that you think is so 'lowly' as Bronx is capable of this. I'm sorry if you aren't but it genuinely seems like you are letting your absolute hatred of Bronx get in the way of the matter. I'm not trying to be attack-y or anything at all--it's just that seems what you are doing.

The fact is they make a decent amount of money through fund raising. Google can be your friend, here is a little more information here. If that's not good enough for you, I strongly recommend contacting WCS directly as I doubt anyone on this forum is so well versed in the nickel and dime process of WCS fundraisers that they can give you the answers you seek. Or if they can, they probably aren't professionally allowed to. If you contact them, let us know what you turn up.

I guess I will have to write this a hundred times before someone actually pays attention: I do NOT hate the Bronx Zoo! I do NOT think it is a "lowly" zoo. I do NOT think its administration is incompetent, evil, or ignorant.

I just do not like the direction the administration/management has taken in the past 10 or 15 years. And, since that direction didn't lead them to enough of a point of financial stability in tough times that they could continue to care for the animals they brought into their zoo, I wish they would head back in the direction of focusing on being a zoo.

I have seen Charity Navigator's 4-star rating for the Bronx Zoo. But, again, I am thinking the Bronx Zoo's success in raising money is due to its image as a conservation society rather than as a zoo.

For those who want the Bronx Zoo to focus on conservation, there is still the fact that Charity Navigator's rating does not take into account, nor is it in any way based on how much the Bronx Zoo gives to specific individual projects, or how successful those projects are in conserving wildlife.

So, it is POSSIBLE that the conservation efforts are no where near as successful in conserving wildlife as the fundraising efforts are in raising funds. I am NOT saying that's the case, just that is is possible. And, even if it is the case, I am not implying that anyone in charge there is evil or incompetent. I am saying what I mean.

I think they went in the wrong direction!

 

[Zoo Visitor]

Just a bystander in this one, but I would like to point out that your ending statement doesn't encourage what you state you wish for in the first sentence. Your finishing statement comes across as combatative and as such, will only garner combatative responses. This board is a great place with a varied group of people with varied ideas and thoughts. Don't go looking for fights where one does not need be.

Thank you very much for a very good point.

I was trying to be humorous, but you're right. It probably will seem to be more combative.

I don't want to edit the last sentence out, though, because that will take away the credit you deserve for pointing this out to me.

I am a little exhausted from all this debate. So I don't think I will write any more today. It seems that quite a few people have misunderstood what I meant on certain points.

I stand by what I believe, but I don't want what I believe to be misunderstood.

So thanks again.

Have a good weekend (and I'm writing that to you, and to everyone on Zoo Chat!)

 

[Zoo Visitor]

People will do that constantly on here. While everyone here cares about animals, there are people who will debase your opinion solely for being different. That's what happens on the Internet: people have tones and the like that can't be heard on here.

There are very few people on here who have any zoo extremist leanings. I think from what I've seen you have the most extreme leanings I've seen recently. But it's always your right to an opinion. Just always extend the same respect to others and their views (and to the zoos, no matter your feelings on them) that you expect in return.

Thank you for your advice. I appreciate it.

And I will try harder to be sure my comments don't seem disrespectful to to any zoo or to any member of the forum. I did not intend to be disrespectful at all, but it appears that some of my comments were taken that way.

It would be good if this forum had a feature whereby people could ask another forum member to read over their comments before they published them to point out what might be misinterpreted, as Ituri did for me in reply to one of my other comments.

 

[okapikpr]

Well, you could respond politely, and state your opinions civilly.

I have and I will continue to do so. Its one thing to ask a question, but another to state opinions with what seems little thought or even research...that my friend is ignorance. And there are less polite ways of putting it.

 

[tigertiger]

Jungle World is my all time favorite exhibit because I believe landscape immersion exhibits make visitors feel like they are in the animals' territory. If you observe visitors as they enter Jungle World, you will see that children who were noisy before they entered suddenly become quiet, without their parents telling them to be, because they are in awe of what they see.

Two things: your wrong about children an Jungleworld. Perhaps you have good luck but I can think of two times that it's been quiet in there and one was December 24th and the other December 31st.

You like Jungleworld for it's immersion...but not Congo? Similarly, you mentioned at some point you have lived in Ohio; how about Jungletrails at Cincinnati or the Northern American section of Columbus?

 

[tigertiger]

Scary News...

A friend of mine went to Bronx today and called me to tell me there was a petition. I explained to her it's probably funding and about World of Darkness and the like. She explained to me that no--it's not about WoD--it's a petition being worked by the zoo (as in in the cafe, etc.) to save...Madagascar. Apparently that's the next exhibit on the chopping block if Bronx can't close it's budget gap.

Anyone else feel it's more Bronx's way of getting people to sign a petition than something that may happen?

 

[groundskeeper24]

A friend of mine went to Bronx today and called me to tell me there was a petition. I explained to her it's probably funding and about World of Darkness and the like. She explained to me that no--it's not about WoD--it's a petition being worked by the zoo (as in in the cafe, etc.) to save...Madagascar. Apparently that's the next exhibit on the chopping block if Bronx can't close it's budget gap.

Anyone else feel it's more Bronx's way of getting people to sign a petition than something that may happen?

You have to be freakin' kidding me! If that's the case, I even happier that I got to see it last summer. It's too good to miss out on.

 

[dcamp023]

I can give alittle update the hyena have arrived and they are now on exhibit. There are two and they are where the old cheetahs were. Madagascar is exhibiting the sifake again with the baby. There were no blue eyed lemurs and there seemed to be less ring tailed lemurs then normal.

 

[zebedee101]

I can give alittle update the hyena have arrived and they are now on exhibit. There are two and they are where the old cheetahs were. Madagascar is exhibiting the sifake again with the baby. There were no blue eyed lemurs and there seemed to be less ring tailed lemurs then normal.

I think I posted this on a different thread, but they are spotted hyena 1.1 and came from Denver. The cheetah enclosure is unchanged except that one wire mesh panel was replaced with a wooden panel that has small glass windows at adult and child height as privacy viewing. The sifaka is only on exhibit for a short period each day as its baby gets used to the exhibit, when its not on display the two blue-eyed lemurs are in the exhibit.

The aardvarks are now in the giraffe building they are 1.1 wild caught from tanzania. They were burrowing and mating frequently the twice I have seen them.

 

[Sun Wukong]

If zoos didnt swap animals the resulting mating between parents and offspring or related offspring leads to health issues that after two or three generations mean that the animals become infertile and eventually will die out.

Just a little correction: inbreeding does not necessarily have to lead to infertilty.
There are several examples of highly inbred populations that have existed for a longer period of time; the Chillingham cattle are a nice example for that, and so are many endemic island species
However, severe inbreeding and lack of selection can indeed lead to inbreeding depression in its various forms.
To minimise the danger, many zoos nowadays try to avoid inbreeding-at least in the popular species. gGven the often rather small and inbred founding population, that's sometimes a little bit belated.

I won't debate the question of how to define a modern zoo (although I think that a good zoo should work both as a center of conservation/education and as a human/animal "interface") or the doubtable benefit of envisioning zoos as arks, but I think that tigertiger's assumption is a bit premature: most zoos aren't conservation centers, and only a few (like the Bronx Zoo) are honestly on their way to become one or are even one.

And to reply to Zoo Visitor's chief complain: sometimes it's better to send animals away than keeping them under inadequate conditions. The management of the Brnox Zoo seems to be wise enough to understand that...

 

[dcamp023]

Question did the bronx zoo move their red ruffed lemurs or are they rotating then into the exhibit. I believe they used to be shown with the ringtails. But were not there the other day.

 

[zebedee101]

Question did the bronx zoo move their red ruffed lemurs or are they rotating then into the exhibit. I believe they used to be shown with the ringtails. But were not there the other day.

AFAIK the red ruffed were in the last enclosure, opposite the fossa and always have been. The Collared lemur are mixed with the ring-tailed and they recently had a baby - see my gallery.

 

[savethelephant]

Sorry for opening an old thread but my curiousity got the best in meD)

I will start off by saying the Bronx zoo is my favorite zoo from all the zoos I have visited.
There has been great examples of new,innovative exhibits at top zoos. For example, Omaha is opening it's Africa exhibit and San diego with African rocks. What has Bronx done? Redo the children's zoo(Althought they did add giant anteater and pudu amongst others so not all that bad). Can the Bronx keep up with the competition of the title of one of the top zoos in the nation? Bronx's current masterplan includes an "African safari adventure"(details found on Bronx news 2) and in the details the closest thing to new exhibits are giraffe feedings. Will the Bronx be able to come up with dazzling or even average exhibits?(Especially now that the new CEO is here) Only time could tell...

 

[Gomphothere]

First, I think you're right that only time will tell.
Second, you have to consider that the Bronx Zoo is part of a much larger empire that includes, among other facilities, the Coney Island Aquarium. Sandy did major damage out there, and there was already a major expansion planned there, as a result of which the aquarium has absorbed the larger share of the WCS's capital expenditures recently. (They got insurance money, but it's never enough, of course.) In the 2014 annual report, which you can access on line, for the FY ending June 30, 2014, they spent $13.6 million at the Bronx Zoo and $20.9 million at Coney Island. The new shark exhibit will be the star attraction, will cost $157 million, and should be spectacular: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ound-new-127m-shark-exhibit-article-1.1571425
Third, as you can see from the report, there has been considerable capital spending at the Bronx Zoo itself recently, although a lot of it has been behind the scenes or off exhibit, such as roof and boiler replacements, the new Quarantine Center and the new Animal Ambassador Center where they house all the animals used in the education programs. This sort of stuff isn't anything you can see but is somewhere between very important and essential. The recent stuff you can see includes the Children's Zoo, a multi-million dollar project, and the Komodo Dragon Exhibit. The newly refurbished second floor of the World of Birds is either already open or will open by the end of the summer, and that could not have been a small project given the size of the building.
Fourth, I suspect, but don't know, that there are other things brewing for the Bronx Zoo. It never stands still, and, as one possible example, the old Monkey House is ripe for re-imagining. It can't be torn down, since it's legally landmarked, and has such a prominent location in the zoo that I'm sure they're going to do something with it. Whenever they do something new, they do it right and state of the art, which takes considerable planning and design and some fund raising, all of which takes time. From what I've noticed over the years, they tend to be closed mouth about projects until they're pretty much completely designed and funded and they're ready to break ground. So we just wait to hear more.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

The second floor of World of Birds has reopens and it's more or less the same really. My guess is it was mostly a renovation of the roof and/or the behind the scenes operations. The African aviary has a new cover over the viewing area and a nursery has been added, however.

STE, I think you're forgetting that, for the most part, the zoo already has a ton of amazing exhibits and, while there's always stuff to improve and add upon, the zoo doesn't really require anything along the lines of a new African exhibit imho. Of course, additions are always welcomed and it'd be great to see them do something with those empty enclosures and fill in some of the larger open ones but nothing like an entire new exhibit is necessary.

Also, along with the new Children's Zoo, newreptile exhibit in the Zoo Center (featuring Komodo Dragons and Aldabra Giant Tortoises), the renovation of the second floor of World of Birds, and the current renovation of Himalayan Highlands, the zoo has put an abundance of amazing species on-exhibit within the past year- many of which in the past month. Highlights of which include Markhor, Mohol Bushbaby, Javan Slow Loris, Red-Flanked Duiker, Little Blue Penguin, and Southern Pudu.

I think the zoo is doing a great job and, while there is still a lot to improve and a lot of potential, they're going to go no where but up! I think some of the other WCS collections are getting some more of the money love for now (and as they should really) but after they're done, I think Bronx will begin doing some more big projects.

~Thylo

 

[savethelephant]

Thank you both very much as this really puts things into perspective.It seems due to me living near a world class zoo all my life, I began to be a bit ungrateful/demanding. So thanks again

 

[Gomphothere]

Bear in mind also that they just brought in a new CEO (#1) in 2012 and a new COO (#2) on March of this year, in between which they went through a strategic planning process. I wouldn't be surprised if that whole transition and strategic planning process put any big decisions about capital projects on a two or three year hold.

 

[Zooplantman]

Also keep in mind that the funding for the Bronx Zoo, the Aquarium and the City Zoos is all different. An improvement at Central Park Zoo doesn't necessarily interfere with an improvement at the Bronx Zoo. And anything that is done at any of the facilities depends on funding from the State and the City, sometimes the Borough, as well as donors. So if the Bronx Zoo wants to do another BIG project (and they haven't since Madagascar) there are quite a few forces that need to be brought together. Besides, they don't think in months, they think in decades.
Finally, the current WCS CEO is more interested in the zoos than his predecessor it would appear so that at least is a positive sign for the future.