ZSL London Zoo Future Of the Mappin terraces

Tigerlemurguy said:
well do you think that the camels would have survived in the australian deserts 100 years ago?
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Well they did, since they've been there about that long. Their presence in Australia has nothing to do with climate change, they were introduced as baggage animals because of the similarity in climate/aridity between Australia and their homelands. Now they're trying to eradicate them because of the damage they do.
 
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Yes. I think they were from Arabian or was it Afghan stock originally. There were thousands of them wandering around at one stage in the outback but I believe they've been much reduced now.
 
interesting concept on ZSL's behalf, and an issue which more zoos should be bringing to the fore, though im not sure ZSL has selected the right venue for this exhibit, which could probably be better interpreted using different species in another forum....such as the old aquarium for example.
to be perfectly honest, and I am a huge fan of my local fauna, it would take more than emu and wallaby to liven up the mappin terraces. If they wanted to stick to the Australian theme then swapping Red Kangaroo for red-necked wallaby would be a starting point. Adding in more waterfowl species, such as maned duck and maybe converting the old langur den into a semi-nocturnal exhibit would work.
However, climate change is such a big issue and I really dont think ZSL has even chosen the right style of exhibit to do so. Our land is one of extremes where climate change both past and present, as well as man-made influences going back tens of thousands of years have shaped and continue to shape the ecology, which tends to muddy the issue slightly and makes it harder to interpret well.
when I lived in London in 2005 there was much talk of bringing wolves and brown bears back to the terraces. This is an idea I like alot. Charismatic species. Historical ties to a heritage listed structure. A habitat which would discguise the terraces themselves. And best of all a long and interesting natural history and contentious interactions with humans on the Britsh Isles and current debates about their possible reintroduction.
ZSL would do well to even convert the old Casson into a venue for climate change with numerous sub-exhibits, or create an exhibition similar to BUGS and handpick micro-species with stories to tell, exhibit them well and link them into the issue.
 
From the pics on the zsl website, I`d say that the exhibit looks very nice (and much better then before) and that for the avergae visitor, it is now much more attractive then it was; wallabies and emus should be more active and better to see then the elusive London sloth bears and the small langur group (I didn`t see neither the bears nor the langurs on my visit...). So far well done; just from the zoological point of view, it`s boring, and neither species is endangered.
 
glyn said:
when I lived in London in 2005 there was much talk of bringing wolves and brown bears back to the terraces. This is an idea I like alot. Charismatic species. Historical ties to a heritage listed structure. A habitat which would discguise the terraces themselves. And best of all a long and interesting natural history and contentious interactions with humans on the Britsh Isles and current debates about their possible reintroduction.
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The funny thing is that barely ten years ago ZSL had grey wolves... which were replaced by maned wolves... which were replaced by squirrel monkeys.

The Mappins have been a headache for ZSL for several decades since it was closed down as a multi bear/goat exhibit. When I first visited in '96 the hoarding around the Mappins were talking up gorillas. I think it was a good try with the sloth bears, but the plan was ultimately flawed. The 'Outback' exhibit may look okay, but I cannot see the average visitor giving it more than a cursory glance. I can understand if it is a temporary exhibit, but you get the feeling that ZSL aren't trying very hard. Given they have access to so many species (particularly over two large zoos), I would ultimately say that wallabies and emus are a poor choice for an iconic large exhibit. Oh and if you want to add some extra species to the 'Outback' try rabbits and merino sheep!

Couldn't they have moved the lions into a decent exhibit on the Mappins???
 
tetrapod said:
Couldn't they have moved the lions into a decent exhibit on the Mappins???
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I have argued this point very frequently! I had hoped that the emu and wallaby enclosure was an experiment to ensure the new landscaped Mappin would work, and then at a later date lions would take over the enclosure, once enough time had passed to a) make sure there were no major failings in the terrace refurb and b) raise enough money. The thing that makes me think that this won't be happening is how Australian the theming is, I wouldn't have planted Eucalyptus if the eventual plan was lions. I would have gone with more generic trees, like thorn bushes etc. which would mature in time for a new big cat exhibit. I don't think London Zoo have tried very hard with this.
 
Although this exhibit 'looks' attractive, the problem I feel is one of scale in so much as the Australian animals won't fill it. The Mappins were designed to house big herds of goats/sheep and large bears- so although the compartments have disappeared, the overall size and background height remains. I think only a large animal species like Lions(or yet other bears!??) would overcome this scale problem but I can't see anything happening now for another decade or so.:(
 
The aquarium below seems to be in trouble, if so, could this grade II listed building receive grants towards the cost of refurbishment, or if beyond help, just tear it down and start again.
 
kiang said:
The aquarium below seems to be in trouble, if so, could this grade II listed building receive grants towards the cost of refurbishment, or if beyond help, just tear it down and start again.
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What is a Listed Building II status is the building is structurally unsound, falling apart and a right out danger to animals housed, staff members and the general public. It now is a public disgrace how each and everyone seems "bound" a severe case of Catch22 inertia.

Surely, this is a cry for merciful action over the inaction of yonkers' years using Listed Building status as a mere excuse to not have to do anything. This is both on the part of zoo management as well as on the GL Municipality and the local Council's authority governing and responsible for buildings of any architectural relevance!

What should be done in this very case both with the historical Mappin Terraces as well the Aquarium building below is a merciful tearing down of the entire structure and put in place something more deserving of the the world class collection of conservation and scientific relevance and creating a new structure / exhibit doing justice to a modern-day Aquarium inside ZSL territory (and building on the former ideas of an Aquarium as ZSL has done elsewhere within the London boroughs!
 
Coming back to this, what can be done with the terrace and what will be the shell that was once the aquarium?

How about a bat walk through in the former aquarium, on a scale like Chester’s, feasible?
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
What should be done in this very case both with the historical Mappin Terraces as well the Aquarium building below is a merciful tearing down of the entire structure and put in place something more deserving of the the world class collection of conservation and scientific relevance and creating a new structure / exhibit doing justice to a modern-day Aquarium inside ZSL territory (and building on the former ideas of an Aquarium as ZSL has done elsewhere within the London boroughs!
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Late to this, but entirely agree. The building should be carefully recorded for the archives and then entirely removed with something worthwhile to replace it.

(Though, of course, funding remains a problem.)
 
Tearing down the Mappins, now that the Aquarium is closed, is the only feasible solution for London to maintain the image of a world-class, scientific collection. Replacing it with a new aquarium and filling all the Mappin space with new enclosures could be probably the best way forward. Renovate the Casson, then have the Casson, tigers and the Mappin space as a large South East Asian section (as conservation seems to leaning that way)
 
None of the three Mayors of London has been too bothered about protecting listed buildings, and the Mappins are becoming an eyesore and lack the architectural significance of the zoo's other millstones, so I doubt whether there would be too much objection to demolition.
 
kiang said:
Coming back to this, what can be done with the terrace and what will be the shell that was once the aquarium?

How about a bat walk through in the former aquarium, on a scale like Chester’s, feasible?
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I also think the old aquarium, if completely gutted (including all the water filtration equipment, pipes etc that the aquarium needed), it would make an amazing nocturnal house, especially if more of the internal height was used.

I would hope that the goat hills could feasibly still be used for ibex, and if the main exhibit was able to accomodate sloth bears and langurs, then emu and kangaroo, it certainly could accomodate tapirs, capybara, pudu, agouti and tamarins/marmosets.
 
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Isn't the whole reason it's been closed down that it's structurally unsound? The cost of remediation works to make the structure safe for people, let alone animals, must be astronomical. The best course of action would to commission a lazer scan of the structure (similar to that produced of the Science Museum Shipping Galleries before they were redeveloped in 2012: Shipping | Science Museum). Then, the structure can be taken down and replaced with something new. Heritage buildings and structures are important, but once they become unsafe, I don't think they should be kept for history's sake.
 
I seem to be getting the idea that London zoos managers are really dropping the ball these days with running the zoo perhaps time for some new blood and new ideas?
 
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