ZSL London Zoo Future Of the Mappin terraces

I wonder what they are waiting for. They sent the Owl-faced monkey to Antwerp to join a group, why not the langurs? Unless the EEP coordinator organised the guenon move, I don't think the grey langurs are part of even an ESB?
 
While I appreciate that ZSL had a sizeable hole to fill up in the collection and after the hype of the bears that they needed to re-brand the Mappins as something new, I must say making an Australian outback exhibit and linking it to climate change is very tenuous. For a start what educational message will people take away from a group of Red-necked wallabys (a forest species; surely ZSL can get their hands on red roos) and 4 emus? Be careful about using too much water and driving your car to much, otherwise the UK will end up like the arid centre of Australia?? Give me a break.

If they wanted an Australia exhibit on the Mappins, why not just put an Australian exhibit there and leave out the hyperbole. Oh and make it a walk-through so that it is a little more interesting. Aesthetically looks okay though...
 
could the mountains ever be used as part of the australian theme? judging by the pictures they look blocked off
 
ZSL could feasibly have banked up the earth and sand to allow the animals to reach the top level, but there's nothing really to stop heavy rain washing it all down the slope. The mountains haven't been blocked off, there is a visitor path dividing the bear enclosures from the sheep and goat mountains, which was there from the start. It's possible that London only had permission to take out the dividing walls and not the top bear wall that the public used to look down on the bears from. Paradoxus posted a bunch of photos of the mappins on another thread:

http://www.zoobeat.com/38/bear-situation-uk-9073/index6.html#post26811

the railings separating the path from the sheep and goat areas has been removed, you can still see the base of the barrier and where the pens were divided.
 
i was always ashamed by the lack of viewing areas for mappin, remeber those glass panneled steps? that were always locked, they would have given a great view of the terraces, are they still there?
 
Why were you ashamed?! I think I'd be more ashamed if I was able to access areas of an exhibit while a group of wheelchair users were stuck at the bottom of some steps. Um, with the 'glass-panelled steps'...f you mean the steps at either side, I think the main issue is that wheelchair users could never access the upper levels. In fact, ZSL may have been legally obliged to either provide access....when the sloth bear exhibit was opened, there was a sign for the first year or so promising a ramp at the bottom of the terraces, while a temporary wooden one was in place.
 
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johnstoni said:
I wonder what they are waiting for. They sent the Owl-faced monkey to Antwerp to join a group, why not the langurs? Unless the EEP coordinator organised the guenon move, I don't think the grey langurs are part of even an ESB?
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I fear that's the difference- the remaining Hamlyn guenon was 'rare' and in demand. These Langurs aren't in quite the same league and could 'languish' (forgive the pun) where they are now for some while. But this species makes a good exhibit, being active and impressive to watch, so I hope that 1. they stay in UK and 2. more individuals are added to refresh the group- but I'm doubtful on both counts!
 
I'm confused about the langurs, I could swear London was exhibiting some greys as either 'Entellus' or 'Hanuman' langurs in the old sobell before bear mountain was opened...there is a Hanuman langur ESB, but I am assuming their particular subspecies is not part of this....
 
They are of the Sri Lankan race.

I think London's were in the Sobells initially. They originated from 1.2(?) received from Twycross & Bristol zoos, both of which kept them but stopped a long while back (no idea where they went except a few (from Bristol?) went to Combe Martin.) London's then bred up to the group that were added to the Mappin exhibit. I suspect they were orginally obtained just as a fresh species and the decision to mix them with the bears was made later.
 
yes, I realise they are the Sri Lankan race, my point was are these included in the wider Hanuman langur ESB, or are they too distinct to be managed as part of the same studbook? If they were, I would assume the influence of a studbook holder would guide any decision to move them, rather than it being a unilateral decision on the part of the holder.
 
I believe all the european holders have the same race- the Sri Lankan- so yes, they'd be moved according to SB keeper request. Sadly that probably means them going into a European group unless London specifically want to continue with them. Unlikely?
 
Pertinax said:
They are of the Sri Lankan race.

I think London's were in the Sobells initially. They originated from 1.2(?) received from Twycross & Bristol zoos, both of which kept them but stopped a long while back (no idea where they went except a few (from Bristol?) went to Combe Martin.) London's then bred up to the group that were added to the Mappin exhibit. I suspect they were orginally obtained just as a fresh species and the decision to mix them with the bears was made later.
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Just to confirm the Hanuman langurs were kept in the Sobell prior to the Mappins. I never saw them on display with the bears but always crammed into the nightquarters.
 
I was getting confused.....basically because the Sri Lankan tufted grey Semnopithecus priam thersites is just a subspecies of the tufted grey, not a subspecies of the Hanuman/northern plains langur, right? As they are different species, so I think that would mean that the tufted grey would not be managed as part of the Semnopithecus entellus ESB.

What confused me is that, at some point during the langurs living on bear mountain, either London realised they were not Hanuman langurs (as they had been labelled in the Sobell)....OR... they were reclassified as a distinct species during that time....OR...the sobell animals were actually S. entellus, which were then replaced by the geographically-correct Tufted greys....

OR.....it's saturday night and I'm busy worrying about grey langur taxonomy....that's possibly the bigger issue here :eek:
 
Apologies if this has already been discussed, but what about the sloth bear/langur exhibit didn't work. Was it agression between the bears and monkeys? Or was it more of an issue of the exhibit itself?
 
Ituri said:
Apologies if this has already been discussed, but what about the sloth bear/langur exhibit didn't work. Was it agression between the bears and monkeys? Or was it more of an issue of the exhibit itself?
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I don't think the bears were agressive to the monkeys, but very well may have been at some point, as one of the bears attacked a muntjac which also used to share the enclosure.
 
I think the Langurs and Bears worked fine- the problem was the bears didn't show themselves well and they were the major species in the exhibit. The Langurs possibly weren't that easy to see because of the enormous area they were in.
 
johnstoni said:
As they are different species, so I think that would mean that the tufted grey would not be managed as part of the Semnopithecus entellus ESB.
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I was wrong previously - most of the European grey Langurs are Entellus(just looked on ISIS) The only Sri Lankan ones listed are Antwerp 2.1. Krefeld. 2.1. London 1.2.(though this could be out of date, I saw only 0.2 last time but a male could have been out of sight?) If they leave London it would presumably be to bolster one of the other two 'groups'.

Re History of London ones; I think(but not definite) they were the same group as founded by the 1.2 from Twycross/Bristol- these I think were listed as Sri Lankan race too. I suspect London called them 'Entellus' first then maybe found out/traced their true identity and changed their name accordingly (speculation).

I think the Sri Lanka ones are included in the same ESB as the Entellus, but in a subsection, or highlighted as being this race. (I had an older copy of this but can't find it now.)
 
yer i agree the exhibit was good but the bears (as they naturally are) were very secretive and quite hard to view, the only time i saw them was when they were asleep under a cave!
 
Tigerlemurguy said:
yer i agree the exhibit was good but the bears (as they naturally are) were very secretive and quite hard to view, the only time i saw them was when they were asleep under a cave!
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but so far, they are not behaving like this at Whipsnade, where they seem to be much more active and interested in life.
 
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