Future of Zoos SA zoos (Speculation)

Swanson02 said:
What subspecies currently make up our chimp population, and roughly what percentages do they compose? Cheers again :)
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It is likely all are hybrids, with the exception of Galatea at Monarto who is confirmed by parentage as P.t. verus. As they are managed on species level in the region, I don't believe genetic testing to determine subspecies has ever been undertaken.
 
Swanson02 said:
What subspecies currently make up our chimp population, and roughly what percentages do they compose? Cheers again :)
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Great question!

Galatea is a purebred Western chimpanzee and to my knowledge she’s the only one (imported not knowing her purebred status).

The others are hybrids largely owing to Taronga importing a number of founders at different times. One pair (Bobby and Bessie) arrived together and were wild caught at the same time, likely from the same troop. This means their daughter (Chiki) was likely a purebred and indeed first generation offspring such as Lisa and Shiba would be a minimum of 50% something.

Sally, who recently died at Auckland Zoo appears to be have been a Western chimpanzee from early photos. Similar to Bobby and Bessie, her parents were wild caught at the same time and were probably from the same troop.
 
marmolady said:
I don't believe genetic testing to determine subspecies has ever been undertaken.
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No it hasn’t, but I’d love to know the results if it ever were! Within Taronga’s troop there’s distinct differences between family lines e.g. Shiba’s and her offspring are large, with long limbs; while Sacha’s sons are stocky and have more hair around the face (similar to her sister Sally’s sons at Wellington). The genetic results could explain these variances.
 
marmolady said:
Funny, Sandali is actually the least stocky male at Monarto. He's always been comparatively tall and lean.

Phenotypically, most chimps in the region have greater resemblance to P.t. verus, but I would put money on there being P.t.troglodytes somewhere behind Shiba's family.
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That’s interesting, as Sandali’s father (Snowy) was a small chimp; as were his paternal uncles, Boyd and Marty. Boyd, Snowy and Marty were the product of a wild born father (Tom) who mated with his first generation daughter (Bebe). In the event that Bebe’s mother (Yoka) was of the same subspecies as Tom (I suspect Western), then we may have a higher number of purebreds in the region than we know.

Western chimpanzee seem to be the predominant influence - perhaps because of the trade route to Europe and the USA was more direct from West Africa; with the occasional Central chimpanzee picked up on Okapi scouting missions?
 
Western chimpanzees seem to be most prominent worldwide. I don't think it's coincidental that they are now the most endangered of the four subspecies (the only one listed as Critically Endangered).

I just added a photograph of the four males together into the gallery; gives an idea of their sizes. I suspect Enzi will become the largest; Zombi's huge and broad and Sandali's tall, and Zuri has already taken after them.
 
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marmolady said:
I just added a photograph of the four males together into the gallery; gives an idea of their sizes. I suspect Enzi will become the largest; Zombi's huge and broad and Sandali's tall, and Zuri has already taken after them.
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Great photo! Enzi is guaranteed to be a future male given Zombi’s support and the fact he’s the youngest by 19 years, with no further male births. It’ll be interesting to see where Monarto go next with their troop - whether they’ll retain Zuri in the hope she’ll breed with Tsotsi; or transfer her on as per the female dispersal pattern. It’s hard to say what hopes there are for Galatea to breed successfully given her struggles to conceive.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Western chimpanzee seem to be the predominant influence - perhaps because of the trade route to Europe and the USA was more direct from West Africa; with the occasional Central chimpanzee picked up on Okapi scouting missions?
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That makes a lot of sense. Although expensive I think they should at least perform a regional genetic testing program (if one can even be reliably performed) on the youngest generation, to gauge what subspecies genetics are present in our population. Because from the sounds of it we might only have 2, Western and Central. It would be a good long-term plan (over the course of the century) for the only new imports to be pure Western Chimps, with the goal of a majority Western population by say 2080.
With that majority being either majority via hybridization, for example, most chimpanzees in the region would be at least 75% Western genetically. Or the more ambitious majority via segregation, where there are two distinct populations a larger pure Western chimpanzee population (breeding) and a smaller relic hybrid/'generic' chimpanzee population slowly being phased out. I understand it's extremely long-term but a distant goal to aspire to is better than just increasing the hybridisation when we have the opportunity not to.
 
Swanson02 said:
That makes a lot of sense. Although expensive I think they should at least perform a regional genetic testing program (if one can even be reliably performed) on the youngest generation, to gauge what subspecies genetics are present in our population. Because from the sounds of it we might only have 2, Western and Central. It would be a good long-term plan (over the course of the century) for the only new imports to be pure Western Chimps, with the goal of a majority Western population by say 2080.
With that majority being either majority via hybridization, for example, most chimpanzees in the region would be at least 75% Western genetically. Or the more ambitious majority via segregation, where there are two distinct populations a larger pure Western chimpanzee population (breeding) and a smaller relic hybrid/'generic' chimpanzee population slowly being phased out. I understand it's extremely long-term but a distant goal to aspire to is better than just increasing the hybridisation when we have the opportunity not to.
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It’s absolutely achievable over a long period of time as you suggest.

A new holder able to accomodate a pure bred troop would be an asset, but failing that, subbing males into troops that are suddenly left without males (as Hamilton’s could be in the next decade or two) is also an option. From here, young purebred females could join the troop to breed with the purebred males. And this is all assuming we have no purebred males (which we may well do).

Another option could be create a split off troop from Taronga’s community of adult and adolescent males, along with non breeding females. A juvenile (purebred) male could then be integrated into the main troop into the possible (albeit lengthy) process that saw Snowy integrated in the 1980’s. In this case, the adult males were exported to Hyderabad and juveniles remaining in the troop alongside Snowy (with some vasectomised).
 
Going back to the giraffe discussion I would have thought that sourcing giraffe from game farm/ranches in South Africa was the most likely source of pure stock. Not likely that Australian population will ever be used for reintroductions.
 
tetrapod said:
Going back to the giraffe discussion I would have thought that sourcing giraffe from game farm/ranches in South Africa was the most likely source of pure stock. Not likely that Australian population will ever be used for reintroductions.
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You could be right but it depends if they have included a IRA to cover South Africa
 
Zorro said:
You could be right but it depends if they have included a IRA to cover South Africa
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I’d previously discounted this as an option given no zoos from North America or Europe appear to have imported from South Africa in recent decades. Access to (purebred) founders would otherwise be the ideal solution.
 
Zoofan15 said:
I’d previously discounted this as an option given no zoos from North America or Europe appear to have imported from South Africa in recent decades. Access to (purebred) founders would otherwise be the ideal solution.
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I would believe since Nyala have come out of South Africa in resent year’s it might be possible depending on what coverage the Giraffe IRA gives
 
Zorro said:
I would believe since Nyala have come out of South Africa in resent year’s it might be possible depending on what coverage the Giraffe IRA gives
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That’s true. The IHS for New Zealand was approved this month (see my post in the New Zealand forum), which will allow New Zealand to import Bovidae, Giraffidae and Tragulidae (Live Animals and Semen) from a range of approved countries, including South Africa. Australia will presumably make a similar arrangement with regards to their giraffe imports.
 
Zoofan15 said:
That’s true. The IHS for New Zealand was approved this month (see my post in the New Zealand forum), which will allow New Zealand to import Bovidae, Giraffidae and Tragulidae (Live Animals and Semen) from a range of approved countries, including South Africa. Australia will presumably make a similar arrangement with regards to their giraffe imports.
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It just seemed like a logical choice - other species have been sourced from South Africa in recent years.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Aside from Nyala, the region has also imported Southern white rhinoceros, African wild dog and several felids including African lion, Cheetah, Serval.
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Yes that was what I was referring too. Plus caracal as well. It would seem that South Africa is a relatively 'easy' and close location to source livestock from. AFAIK only nyala and the single bongo have been imported in recent decades. I could imagine that springbok, sable, waterbuck, impala and gemsbok (some of which have been previously/currently held) would all be potential species that may be imported from SA in the future.
 
I just have a question regarding Monarto Zoo’s ‘Wild Africa’.

If the large, multiple species, African savannah exhibit and the Madagascar lemur walk-through exhibit are going to be ‘paid’ experiences would that also apply to the hippos?

And if anyone has an update of the species that have already been introduced to Wild Africa and an update on the zoos lemurs?

Thanks
 
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