Future of Zoos SA zoos (Speculation)

[Zoofan15]

That’s disappointing, hopefully the Taronga pair and Kamina and Obi/Felix will be able to sustain the population enough until new imports come in (if that ever happens).

Assuming no imports are on the horizon, Taronga should definitely focus on breeding Fergus and Kambiri again. The priority is to get female calves, but three more calves (a male and two female) could theoretically supply the other three zoos with a mate for their Pygmy hippopotamus. The priority should be Felix, given he’s the oldest.

What I’d rather see though is Melbourne or Darling Downs Zoo loan their hippo to the other for breeding while we wait. It could be years before Taronga breed again (and a further three years minimum before that calf is mature) - we’re potentially wasting valuable breeding years here.

 

[Jambo]

Assuming no imports are on the horizon, Taronga should definitely focus on breeding Fergus and Kambiri again. The priority is to get female calves, but three more calves (a male and two female) could theoretically supply the other three zoos with a mate for their Pygmy hippopotamus. The priority should be Felix, given he’s the oldest.

What I’d rather see though is Melbourne or Darling Downs Zoo loan their hippo to the other for breeding while we wait. It could be years before Taronga breed again (and a further three years minimum before that calf is mature) - we’re potentially wasting valuable breeding years here.

Taronga could be breeding their Pygmy Hippos at more regular intervals than we’ve seen, but obviously placements for the calf have been restricting this.

Taronga should be looking to breed Fergus and Kambiri again very soon. A calf of any gender would be great right now.

I think the best course is to loan Kamina to Melbourne to breed. Melbourne have the facilities, and the space to even hold the calf after Kamina is sent back to Darling Downs. If it’s a female calf, the calf could then theoretically be paired up with Obi at Adelaide, who at that time will have new Pygmy Hippo facilities.

 

[Zoofan15]

Taronga could be breeding their Pygmy Hippos at more regular intervals than we’ve seen, but obviously placements for the calf have been restricting this.

Taronga should be looking to breed Fergus and Kambiri again very soon. A calf of any gender would be great right now.

I think the best course is to loan Kamina to Melbourne to breed. Melbourne have the facilities, and the space to even hold the calf after Kamina is sent back to Darling Downs. If it’s a female calf, the calf could then theoretically be paired up with Obi at Adelaide, who at that time will have new Pygmy Hippo facilities.

I don’t believe the lack of breeding has been down to a lack of placements. Melbourne have the facilities to receive a female and Darling Downs Zoo would be able to take on a male and breed if there was one available. There’s also no shortage of smaller zoos/wildlife parks like Altina, who’d surely be interested in acquiring this species - but are unable to do so due to lack of availability.

Consequently, the scarcity of these hippos could also be making the zoos involved reluctant to surrender their only hippo for the greater good of breeding this species.

 

[Chimpanzeearescary]

I don’t believe the lack of breeding has been down to a lack of placements. Melbourne have the facilities to receive a female and Darling Downs Zoo would be able to take on a male and breed if there was one available. There’s also no shortage of smaller zoos/wildlife parks like Altina, who’d surely be interested in acquiring this species - but are unable to do so due to lack of availability.

Consequently, the scarcity of these hippos could also be making the zoos involved reluctant to surrender their only hippo for the greater good of breeding this species.

Is it known what Melbourne’s long term plans are with Pygmy hippos? They’ll manage to keep Felix until he dies but considering they have the facilities, is it likely they’ll want to maintain the species for longer?

 

[Zoofan15]

Is it known what Melbourne’s long term plans are with Pygmy hippos? They’ll manage to keep Felix until he dies but considering they have the facilities, is it likely they’ll want to maintain the species for longer?

Melbourne Zoo are highly secretive about their future plans, but there’s every indication Pygmy hippopotamus have a long term future at the zoo. They fit the zoos criteria for holding species (enabling, endangered etc). and they have a long standing history at the zoo.

In addition, they have the facilities to hold a breeding pair and will likely accept a cow as soon as one is offered with the intention of breeding.

 

[Chimpanzeearescary]

Melbourne Zoo are highly secretive about their future plans, but there’s every indication Pygmy hippopotamus have a long term future at the zoo. They fit the zoos criteria for holding species (enabling, endangered etc). and they have a long standing history at the zoo.

In addition, they have the facilities to hold a breeding pair and will likely accept a cow as soon as one is offered with the intention of breeding.

Thanks for the reply,
Hopefully they do acquire Kamina - a female calf would be good so it can possibly breed with Obi.

 

[Zoofan15]

Thanks for the reply,
Hopefully they do acquire Kamina - a female calf would be good so it can possibly breed with Obi.

You’re welcome. A breeding loan between DDZ and Melbourne is the logical step if imports aren’t happening soon. Neither animal will receive a reproductive age mate from Taronga’s pair for a minimum of four years, so that’s four years we’re wasting if these two animals aren’t paired.

The region is relying on two female Pygmy hippopotami and as we’ve seen with Common hippopotamus, the unexpected can happen (all adult bulls dying in the space of a few years).

 

[Chimpanzeearescary]

You’re welcome. A breeding loan between DDZ and Melbourne is the logical step if imports aren’t happening soon. Neither animal will receive a reproductive age mate from Taronga’s pair for a minimum of four years, so that’s four years we’re wasting if these two animals aren’t paired.

The region is relying on two female Pygmy hippopotami and as we’ve seen with Common hippopotamus, the unexpected can happen (all adult bulls dying in the space of a few years).

It’ll be interesting to see if any logical steps actually do take place to maintain hippos for the region. While where on the topic of species that could use a few new imports, what’s the most likely place Adelaide zoo could source there Gorillas from? I believe Melbourne, Werribee, Taronga, Altina and Mogo hold them - correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Jambo]

Melbourne Zoo are highly secretive about their future plans, but there’s every indication Pygmy hippopotamus have a long term future at the zoo. They fit the zoos criteria for holding species (enabling, endangered etc). and they have a long standing history at the zoo.

In addition, they have the facilities to hold a breeding pair and will likely accept a cow as soon as one is offered with the intention of breeding.

Is it known what Melbourne’s long term plans are with Pygmy hippos? They’ll manage to keep Felix until he dies but considering they have the facilities, is it likely they’ll want to maintain the species for longer?

Melbourne certainly plan to hold Pygmy Hippos in the long term. Apparently they were planning for another calf from Petre back in 2016, which is why Obi was sent to Adelaide so early on. Unfortunately this plan was ruined by her sudden death, although she was quite old.

Considering Melbourne haven’t put a species permanently on display in the empty enclosure makes me believe they still plan to acquire a female asap. A stud book coordinator will have to recommend Kamina to be sent to Melbourne, and since they haven’t paired Kamina with Felix thus far, it seems to show that they believe imports are a possibility in the future.

 

[Jambo]

It’ll be interesting to see if any logical steps actually do take place to maintain hippos for the region. While where on the topic of species that could use a few new imports, what’s the most likely place Adelaide zoo could source there Gorillas from? I believe Melbourne, Werribee, Taronga, Altina and Mogo hold them - correct me if I’m wrong.

Altina do not hold gorillas.

Melbourne, Taronga, Werribee and Mogo are the only Australian holders.

Melbourne and Mogo do not have the capacity to export any individuals (both zoos only have four gorillas), and Werribee holds a bachelor group of three males who will unlikely be used for future breeding.

Taronga’s the only chance, with their three young males, but that would mean Adelaide would serve as a bachelor facility. If they want a breeding group, they’d have to import a male and females from overseas. A joint import with Melbourne would be nice, as Melbourne are in desperate need of females too.

 

[Chimpanzeearescary]

Altina do not hold gorillas.

Melbourne, Taronga, Werribee and Mogo are the only Australian holders.

Melbourne and Mogo do not have the capacity to export any individuals (both zoos only have four gorillas), and Werribee holds a bachelor group of three males who will unlikely be used for future breeding.

Taronga’s the only chance, with their three young males, but that would mean Adelaide would serve as a bachelor facility. If they want a breeding group, they’d have to import a male and females from overseas. A joint import with Melbourne would be nice, as Melbourne are in desperate need of females too.

Since Europe are at/over capacity with there gorillas, it could be likely to get some imports from there (as you said, preferably females). If Monarto soon begin construction on a Gorilla enclosure this could potentially serve as a bachelor facility. This could benefit Adelaide’s future breeding group and allow Taronga to not waste space with their younger males.

 

[Jambo]

Since Europe are at/over capacity with there gorillas, it could be likely to get some imports from there (as you said, preferably females). If Monarto soon begin construction on a Gorilla enclosure this could potentially serve as a bachelor facility. This could benefit Adelaide’s future breeding group and allow Taronga to not waste space with their younger males.

Europe could easily provide for say four females and a male, with two of the females going to Melbourne, and then Adelaide getting Kanzi from Melbourne.

A secondary bachelor facility within the region would definitely be beneficial. Werribee will be full for at least another two decades. Taronga plan to create a bachelor enclosure alongside their breeding group, which will probably hold their three younger males. Another facility will be needed for any males born at Melbourne, Mogo and Adelaide. Monarto have the opportunity to be able to create a world class facility that could hold multiple males, across a variety of groupings.

 

[Chimpanzeearescary]

Europe could easily provide for say four females and a male, with two of the females going to Melbourne, and then Adelaide getting Kanzi from Melbourne.

A secondary bachelor facility within the region would definitely be beneficial. Werribee will be full for at least another two decades. Taronga plan to create a bachelor enclosure alongside their breeding group, which will probably hold their three younger males. Another facility will be needed for any males born at Melbourne, Mogo and Adelaide. Monarto have the opportunity to be able to create a world class facility that could hold multiple males, across a variety of groupings.

It would be great if we end up having actively breeding facilities at Melbourne, Mogo, Adelaide and Taronga. This would be able to sustain a population for a long time without any additional imports.

Your right when you say Monarto have the opportunity to create an incredible exhibit. Not only holding Adelaide’s young males but Mogo’s and Melbourne’s too. This would allow for an exhibit with various groupings, immersive enclosures and a great environment for the gorillas. If the Europe export does happen, the regions population could be heading to exciting places.

 

[Jambo]

It would be great if we end up having actively breeding facilities at Melbourne, Mogo, Adelaide and Taronga. This would be able to sustain a population for a long time without any additional imports.

Your right when you say Monarto have the opportunity to create an incredible exhibit. Not only holding Adelaide’s young males but Mogo’s and Melbourne’s too. This would allow for an exhibit with various groupings, immersive enclosures and a great environment for the gorillas. If the Europe export does happen, the regions population could be heading to exciting places.

I agree. We need at least four regional breeding holders to sustain the region, and with Mogo coming in and possibly Adelaide too, the region will be extremely benefited by these moves.

I think Monarto have the space to create a facility with a variety of enclosures, which could mean they could hold a lot of gorillas, depending on the groupings. I think such bachelor facility will be needed in the future, especially with the introduction of Mogo (and possibly Adelaide) into the breeding program.

An overseas import would be exciting as it would allow for Adelaide to finally get the chance to hold and breed gorillas, and will also give Melbourne the females they need to continue with their breeding program. At the moment the small troop size is giving Kimya a lot of stress, which is quite likely why she’s not falling pregnant.

 

[Zoofan15]

It’ll be interesting to see if any logical steps actually do take place to maintain hippos for the region. While where on the topic of species that could use a few new imports, what’s the most likely place Adelaide zoo could source there Gorillas from? I believe Melbourne, Werribee, Taronga, Altina and Mogo hold them - correct me if I’m wrong.

We currently have five regional holders of gorillas:

Taronga Zoo: 4.4
Melbourne Zoo: 1.3
Werribee Open Range Zoo: 3.0
Mogo Zoo: 1.3
Orana Wildlife Park: 2.0

By 2024, Taronga Zoo’s three youngest males will need to be housed in a bachelor troop. The current plan is for these males to be accomodate in a new gorilla complex at Taronga, which will hold a bachelor troop and a breeding troop; but if this isn’t ready by then, they may be grateful of the opportunity to transfer them to Adelaide.

Alternatively, Adelaide Zoo may look at importing gorillas to found a breeding troop. There’s a surplus in Europe, which would be the most likely destination. Both Melbourne and Mogo are in need of new females to increase numbers in their respective troops.

 

[Zoofan15]

The Future of Gorillas in Australasia

Long term, it’d be nice to see Australasia function as a self sufficient region, as opposed to a region that continuously relies on imports. We’ve imported three silverbacks in the last decade; and a minimum of two facilities are now needing to import breeding females.

If we had four breeding facilities - Taronga, Melbourne, Mogo and Monarto; then the female offspring born within these troops could be exchanged between the zoos. To maximise the efficiency of this method, some thought needs to be put into what new founders we’ll receive. The current population derives heavily from the Kibabu/Mouila line. Mouila has seven direct descendants across three breeding facilities, which isn’t ideal genetically speaking.

Bachelor facilities are essential given we can no longer rely on exporting to address the issue of surplus males. Orana, Taronga and Adelaide/Monarto could hold surplus males from their breeding troops.

It would also pay to observe the success of zoos like Prague in castrating young males to assess if this is a viable option long term. Theoretically, these males can remain in their natal troop for life; though given most across Europe are juveniles, this needs further testing to see if silverbacks will tolerate them long term.

 

[Chimpanzeearescary]

The Future of Gorillas in Australasia

Long term, it’d be nice to see Australasia function as a self sufficient region, as opposed to a region that continuously relies on imports. We’ve imported three silverbacks in the last decade; and a minimum of two facilities are now needing to import breeding females.

If we had four breeding facilities - Taronga, Melbourne, Mogo and Monarto; then the female offspring born within these troops could be exchanged between the zoos. To maximise the efficiency of this method, some thought needs to be put into what new founders we’ll receive. The current population derives heavily from the Kibabu/Mouila line. Mouila has seven direct descendants across three breeding facilities, which isn’t ideal genetically speaking.

Bachelor facilities are essential given we can no longer rely on exporting to address the issue of surplus males. Orana, Taronga and Adelaide/Monarto could hold surplus males from their breeding troops.

It would also pay to observe the success of zoos like Prague in castrating young males to assess if this is a viable option long term. Theoretically, these males can remain in their natal troop for life; though given most across Europe are juveniles, this needs further testing to see if silverbacks will tolerate them long term.

I think a self sufficient population is possible for the region. Importing a few new females for breeding groups at Taronga, Mebourne, Mogo and Adelaide (I think that gorillas are what’s going to replace the pandas as those enclosures could easily be renovated for gorillas) and also having bachelor groups at Taronga, Werribee, Orana and Monarto would greatly benefit the population. Hopefully it all happens and then we could an incredible Australasian population of gorillas.

 

[Zoofan15]

I think a self sufficient population is possible for the region. Importing a few new females for breeding groups at Taronga, Mebourne, Mogo and Adelaide (I think that gorillas are what’s going to replace the pandas as those enclosures could easily be renovated for gorillas) and also having bachelor groups at Taronga, Werribee, Orana and Monarto would greatly benefit the population. Hopefully it all happens and then we could an incredible Australasian population of gorillas.

I think gorillas would be a logical replacement for the Giant pandas. Without venturing into large ungulates (not an option), great apes would be the biggest drawcard for Adelaide. It’s not a huge space, so a bachelor troop would be the most suitable. A breeding troop would require placements for surplus males within the decade, which we don’t have confirmation Monarto can provide.

 

[Jambo]

The Future of Gorillas in Australasia

Long term, it’d be nice to see Australasia function as a self sufficient region, as opposed to a region that continuously relies on imports. We’ve imported three silverbacks in the last decade; and a minimum of two facilities are now needing to import breeding females.

If we had four breeding facilities - Taronga, Melbourne, Mogo and Monarto; then the female offspring born within these troops could be exchanged between the zoos. To maximise the efficiency of this method, some thought needs to be put into what new founders we’ll receive. The current population derives heavily from the Kibabu/Mouila line. Mouila has seven direct descendants across three breeding facilities, which isn’t ideal genetically speaking.

Bachelor facilities are essential given we can no longer rely on exporting to address the issue of surplus males. Orana, Taronga and Adelaide/Monarto could hold surplus males from their breeding troops.

It would also pay to observe the success of zoos like Prague in castrating young males to assess if this is a viable option long term. Theoretically, these males can remain in their natal troop for life; though given most across Europe are juveniles, this needs further testing to see if silverbacks will tolerate them long term.

I think gorillas would be a logical replacement for the Giant pandas. Without venturing into large ungulates (not an option), great apes would be the biggest drawcard for Adelaide. It’s not a huge space, so a bachelor troop would be the most suitable. A breeding troop would require placements for surplus males within the decade, which we don’t have confirmation Monarto can provide.

All we need at the moment is six or so females to help continue the breeding program. Two to Mogo, two to Melbourne and two to Adelaide. Our region could very much provide a silverback for Adelaide, but it would be much better genetic wise for them to gain a male from overseas.

I’m under the impression that Adelaide would rather hold a breeding group rather than a bachelor group. Although it really could go either way depending on the regions desires; right now a bachelor group is more desired than a fourth breeding group.

 

[Zorro]

The Future of Gorillas in Australasia

Long term, it’d be nice to see Australasia function as a self sufficient region, as opposed to a region that continuously relies on imports. We’ve imported three silverbacks in the last decade; and a minimum of two facilities are now needing to import breeding females.

If we had four breeding facilities - Taronga, Melbourne, Mogo and Monarto; then the female offspring born within these troops could be exchanged between the zoos. To maximise the efficiency of this method, some thought needs to be put into what new founders we’ll receive. The current population derives heavily from the Kibabu/Mouila line. Mouila has seven direct descendants across three breeding facilities, which isn’t ideal genetically speaking.

Bachelor facilities are essential given we can no longer rely on exporting to address the issue of surplus males. Orana, Taronga and Adelaide/Monarto could hold surplus males from their breeding troops.

It would also pay to observe the success of zoos like Prague in castrating young males to assess if this is a viable option long term. Theoretically, these males can remain in their natal troop for life; though given most across Europe are juveniles, this needs further testing to see if silverbacks will tolerate them long term.

I believe exporting so many females a few years ago was a home goal they have never recovered from a better plan needs to be formulated