Adelaide Zoo Giant Pandas at Adelaide Zoo, and future use of their enclosure

[Zoofan15]

Adelaide Zoo are considering importing a new pair of Giant pandas following Wang Wang and Funi’s return:

https://www.news.com.au/national/so...a/news-story/431598e5903590bdef72cc26a8f9f1d7

The contract for the pandas with China expires in November 2024 and Zoos SA chief executive Elaine Bensted says it is possible a new pair of the animals will be sought thereafter.

I’m not reading too much into this. Knowing the general public are fond of their pandas, the zoo may be keen to avoid upsetting the public by announcing they’re phasing this species out - however this articles implies they haven’t ruled it out either and are at least considering continuing with them.

Personally, I hope they don’t continue with pandas. They’ve enjoyed a memorable decade and a half at the zoo, but it’s time to focus on other species. I doubt a subsequent pair would breed and they derive much needed funding from a wide range of projects. Time to trade them in for gorillas and leopards!

 

[Jambo]

Adelaide Zoo are considering importing a new pair of Giant pandas following Wang Wang and Funi’s return:

https://www.news.com.au/national/so...a/news-story/431598e5903590bdef72cc26a8f9f1d7

The contract for the pandas with China expires in November 2024 and Zoos SA chief executive Elaine Bensted says it is possible a new pair of the animals will be sought thereafter.

I’m not reading too much into this. Knowing the general public are fond of their pandas, the zoo may be keen to avoid upsetting the public by announcing they’re phasing this species out - however this articles implies they haven’t ruled it out either and are at least considering continuing with them.

Personally, I hope they don’t continue with pandas. They’ve enjoyed a memorable decade and a half at the zoo, but it’s time to focus on other species. I doubt a subsequent pair would breed and they derive much needed funding from a wide range of projects. Time to trade them in for gorillas and leopards!

Given they're Adelaide's iconic species, i'm sure Zoos SA will do everything they can to get a new pair. Cubs at Adelaide would skyrocket attendance.

Pandas are Adelaide's focal point over other city zoos such as Melbourne and Taronga. I know a lot of people who have travelled from Victoria to South Australia just to see the Pandas at Adelaide Zoo. A lot of people reference Adelaide as the 'Panda zoo'.

Of course, as the years have gone on, many have got the chance to see the pandas and interest has dwindled, but they still bring in a lot of revenue for Adelaide, much more than any leopards or gorillas ever will.

I do agree with you though, I personally would prefer them to be sent back to China and replaced by Gorillas.

 

[Zoofan15]

Given they're Adelaide's iconic species, i'm sure Zoos SA will do everything they can to get a new pair. Cubs at Adelaide would skyrocket attendance.

Pandas are Adelaide's focal point over other city zoos such as Melbourne and Taronga. I know a lot of people who have travelled from Victoria to South Australia just to see the Pandas at Adelaide Zoo. A lot of people reference Adelaide as the 'Panda zoo'.

Of course, as the years have gone on, many have got the chance to see the pandas and interest has dwindled, but they still bring in a lot of revenue for Adelaide, much more than any leopards or gorillas ever will.

I do agree with you though, I personally would prefer them to be sent back to China and replaced by Gorillas.

I even know people from New Zealand who’ve travelled to Adelaide to see a Giant panda, so I can see a benefit to having had them.

Personally I think a five year loan would have been the ideal compromise. When they arrived, they were the first Giant pandas in the region in 20 years and a huge novelty. An entire generation had grown up never seeing one within the region and so they all rushed to Adelaide Zoo.

The Covid travel lull will surely mean a resurgence over the next couple of years; but beyond that, I’d expect interest to dip unless they can breed a cub. Since that’s unlikely, I say phase them out in 2024. 15 years will have exhausted the curiosity of the region for at least a decade or two.

 

[Jambo]

I even know people from New Zealand who’ve travelled to Adelaide to see a Giant panda, so I can see a benefit to having had them.

Personally I think a five year loan would have been the ideal compromise. When they arrived, they were the first Giant pandas in the region in 20 years and a huge novelty. An entire generation had grown up never seeing one within the region and so they all rushed to Adelaide Zoo.

The Covid travel lull will surely mean a resurgence over the next couple of years; but beyond that, I’d expect interest to dip unless they can breed a cub. Since that’s unlikely, I say phase them out in 2024. 15 years will have exhausted the curiosity of the region for at least a decade or two.

Especially with politics coming into play, i'm not sure China will be wanting to loan Adelaide a completely new pair.

15 years is more than enough imo. In another two or three decades, Pandas could easily be considered again by Adelaide, and even other zoos within the region. But that decision will be made down the line.

Pandas are notoriously hard to bred though due to their quick cycles which take place only once a year. Adelaide will surely be looking for another chance, if it can give them another shot at having a cub. A cub for Adelaide would be phenomenal, annual visitors would be absolutely enormous. People from all over Australia would flock to see it, so I can understand Adelaide's thinking.

 

[Swanson02]

Adelaide Zoo are considering importing a new pair of Giant pandas following Wang Wang and Funi’s return:

https://www.news.com.au/national/so...a/news-story/431598e5903590bdef72cc26a8f9f1d7

The contract for the pandas with China expires in November 2024 and Zoos SA chief executive Elaine Bensted says it is possible a new pair of the animals will be sought thereafter.

I’m not reading too much into this. Knowing the general public are fond of their pandas, the zoo may be keen to avoid upsetting the public by announcing they’re phasing this species out - however this articles implies they haven’t ruled it out either and are at least considering continuing with them.

Personally, I hope they don’t continue with pandas. They’ve enjoyed a memorable decade and a half at the zoo, but it’s time to focus on other species. I doubt a subsequent pair would breed and they derive much needed funding from a wide range of projects. Time to trade them in for gorillas and leopards!

I 100% agree! Adelaide Zoo did receive a boost in popularity when the pandas were initially imported in 2009 but since then the majority of interest has dried up (likely due to them producing no cubs). I understand they are novel and interesting for people interstate but they have become a bit of a joke within South Australia by now.

Personally, I see them as unfeasible, they never will be managed at a sustainable level regionally. Hence other species that will contribute to regional programs like Gorillas are more suitable. I don't know what the exact statistics are but I'd wager that over 80% of Adelaide Zoo's annual visitors are South Australians, they'll likely go to Adelaide whether it has Pandas or not as it is their local zoo. Pandas are only really at the zoo at this point to entice travelers from interstate who have a day to spare while in Adelaide. Additionally, the pandas are also incredibly inactive, most visitors find them quite boring and rarely stay long at their exhibit (Gorillas have a crowd-drawing quality). Anyway if Adelaide does want to differentiate itself it could always develop an amazing South American-themed area, a continent no other zoo in the region has specialized in.

 

[Zoofan15]

I 100% agree! Adelaide Zoo did receive a boost in popularity when the pandas were initially imported in 2009 but since then the majority of interest has dried up (likely due to them producing no cubs). I understand they are novel and interesting for people interstate but they have become a bit of a joke within South Australia by now.

Personally, I see them as unfeasible, they never will be managed at a sustainable level regionally. Hence other species that will contribute to regional programs like Gorillas are more suitable. I don't know what the exact statistics are but I'd wager that over 80% of Adelaide Zoo's annual visitors are South Australians, they'll likely go to Adelaide whether it has Pandas or not as it is their local zoo. Pandas are only really at the zoo at this point to entice travelers from interstate who have a day to spare while in Adelaide. Additionally, the pandas are also incredibly inactive, most visitors find them quite boring and rarely stay long at their exhibit (Gorillas have a crowd-drawing quality). Anyway if Adelaide does want to differentiate itself it could always develop an amazing South American-themed area, a continent no other zoo in the region has specialized in.

I agree Adelaide needs to look to the future. What made the pandas an exciting drawcard, now makes them part of the furniture. A piece of furniture that has become dusty, uninspiring and expense to maintain. A new attraction is what will bring in the visitors and they can’t go wrong with gorillas if they’re unable to secure something not held in Australia.

Pandas may have had a place as a point of difference, but there’s few species that people will travel interstate to see - and those that will have had 15 years to go there and do that. If they want those people (and everyone else) to come back, they need to offer them something new.

Your idea of a South American precinct would be a step in the right direction - with Jaguar being the ultimate triumph if they could import them. Unfortunately this would rely on the cooperation of other zoos, which would lessen their appeal as a point of difference; but a world class South American precinct in itself would be phenomenal.

 

[Zorro]

I agree Adelaide needs to look to the future. What made the pandas an exciting drawcard, now makes them part of the furniture. A piece of furniture that has become dusty, uninspiring and expense to maintain. A new attraction is what will bring in the visitors and they can’t go wrong with gorillas if they’re unable to secure something not held in Australia.

Pandas may have had a place as a point of difference, but there’s few species that people will travel interstate to see - and those that will have had 15 years to go there and do that. If they want those people (and everyone else) to come back, they need to offer them something new.

Your idea of a South American precinct would be a step in the right direction - with Jaguar being the ultimate triumph if they could import them. Unfortunately this would rely on the cooperation of other zoos, which would lessen their appeal as a point of difference; but a world class South American precinct in itself would be phenomenal.

I never thought I would say this but Adelaide has had its chance with the Pandas and its time to move on to better things and yes a Gorilla troop would be one of them and on going development at Monarto zoo. While I would be the first to put the hand up for the Jaguars I can't really see it happening with Adelaide Zoo, as they want to be part of the Sri Lankan Leopard program but dragging their feet short of importing a third pair but leaning towards wanting cubs already bred here.

 

[Jambo]

I never thought I would say this but Adelaide has had its chance with the Pandas and its time to move on to better things and yes a Gorilla troop would be one of them and on going development at Monarto zoo. While I would be the first to put the hand up for the Jaguars I can't really see it happening with Adelaide Zoo, as they want to be part of the Sri Lankan Leopard program but dragging their feet short of importing a third pair but leaning towards wanting cubs already bred here.

I agree, Adelaide has had more than enough time with their pandas. And most of Australia (and New Zealand) have had more than enough time to come and see them.

Gorillas would be my choice for a replacement. They could easily hold a small breeding group across the two enclosures.

Sri Lankan Leopards would be the better choice for Adelaide too, considering they have the support of other zoos within the region.

 

[Zoofan15]

I never thought I would say this but Adelaide has had its chance with the Pandas and its time to move on to better things and yes a Gorilla troop would be one of them and on going development at Monarto zoo. While I would be the first to put the hand up for the Jaguars I can't really see it happening with Adelaide Zoo, as they want to be part of the Sri Lankan Leopard program but dragging their feet short of importing a third pair but leaning towards wanting cubs already bred here.

The initial 10 years more than exceeded the decade necessary to exhaust the Australasian tourism market - and a further five years (that will take them up to 2024) will ensure they take advantage of the post Covid travel boom. Anything beyond that is throwing good money after bad imo - all on the gamble they might breed them.

The Sri Lankan leopard breeding programme would thrive with additional holders. Otherwise it’s just two zoos sending leopards back and forth with Europe. Ordinarily, I’d say a third founder pair would be advantageous but since there’s apparently no demand for first generation offspring from other zoos, it would be more sensible to form a pairing from the offspring of the existing founder pairs at Adelaide (which still leaves two males surplus).

 

[Zorro]

The initial 10 years more than exceeded the decade necessary to exhaust the Australasian tourism market - and a further five years (that will take them up to 2024) will ensure they take advantage of the post Covid travel boom. Anything beyond that is throwing good money after bad imo - all on the gamble they might breed them.

The Sri Lankan leopard breeding programme would thrive with additional holders. Otherwise it’s just two zoos sending leopards back and forth with Europe. Ordinarily, I’d say a third founder pair would be advantageous but since there’s apparently no demand for first generation offspring from other zoos, it would be more sensible to form a pairing from the offspring of the existing founder pairs at Adelaide (which still leaves two males surplus).

I believe the idea in the beginning was for three zoos to import to have a larger founder base, since we only have two zoos which have actually imported one pair each at this stage which goes back to one of the glaring problems plaguing the zoos in our region of having to smaller numbers to start with. Adelaide would be wise to import there own pair.

 

[Zoofan15]

I believe the idea in the beginning was for three zoos to import to have a larger founder base, since we only have two zoos which have actually imported one pair each at this stage which goes back to one of the glaring problems plaguing the zoos in our region of having to smaller numbers to start with. Adelaide would be wise to import there own pair.

A larger founder base (via a third pair at Adelaide Zoo) would make for a more viable population long term. Otherwise, additional holders would need to be sourced within 10-15 years to breed with the second generation offspring bred from the first generation pairings. A third pair could theoretically sustain the region for at least another five years.

However, none of this will be possible unless more holders come on board. I’m really surprised none of the small zoos/wildlife parks (who as ZAA members could join the breeding programme) have jumped at the chance. Ballarat for example have one elderly Sumatran tiger and should be considering replacements.

I believe Adelaide Zoo will therefore receive a first generation male and female from the Canberra and Darling Downs Zoo respectively.

 

[Zorro]

Breeding Sri Lankan leopards:

A larger founder base (via a third pair at Adelaide Zoo) would make for a more viable population long term. Otherwise, additional holders would need to be sourced within 10-15 years to breed with the second generation offspring bred from the first generation pairings. A third pair could theoretically sustain the region for at least another five years.

However, none of this will be possible unless more holders come on board. I’m really surprised none of the small zoos/wildlife parks (who as ZAA members could join the breeding programme) have jumped at the chance. Ballarat for example have one elderly Sumatran tiger and should be considering replacements.

I believe Adelaide Zoo will therefore receive a first generation male and female from the Canberra and Darling Downs Zoo respectively.

I don't believe there are no other zoos at this point that are not interested in having them but more of a case of going the extra step of applying to be part of the EEP program, Perhaps this might change!

 

[Zoofan15]

I don't believe there are no other zoos at this point that are not interested in having them but more of a case of going the extra step of applying to be part of the EEP program, Perhaps this might change!

I would identify Mogo, Ballarat and Melbourne as the most likely candidates - following on from Adelaide obviously.

There will be a large percentage of zoos who won’t pay them any attention until they’re widespread within the region and they can see their success at other zoos - unfortunately part of this success/popularity will be derived from their scarcity, which in turn will decrease their appeal to visitors.

For now, I have no doubt the leopards at Canberra and Darling Downs are drawing in visitors from inter-state, who wouldn’t otherwise consider visiting a zoo that had just the species they can see at their home zoo.

 

[Pertinax]

Gorillas would be my choice for a replacement. They could easily hold a small breeding group across the two enclosures.

I'd agree. They might have to refit out the indoor areas to make them more suitable( I don't know the enclosures of course) and possibly considerable alterations to the outdoors too. But a Gorilla breeding group (as against males only) obtained from outside the region would widen the Australian gorilla gene pool and potentially allow more exchanges between the Australian holders in the future.

 

[Zoofan15]

I'd agree. They might have to refit out the indoor areas to make them more suitable( I don't know the enclosures of course) and possibly considerable alterations to the outdoors too. But a Gorilla breeding group (as against males only) obtained from outside the region would widen the Australian gorilla gene pool and potentially allow more exchanges between the Australian holders in the future.

The Giant panda exhibit isn’t huge, so if Adelaide were to hold a breeding troop, it would have to be a small troop - but even that would be an asset to the region. New founders (ideally from North America since our population derives mostly from Europe) would be valuable in ensuring our population remains genetically viable into the future, with females easily accommodated by the other zoos in the region.

 

[Jambo]

The Giant panda exhibit isn’t huge, so if Adelaide were to hold a breeding troop, it would have to be a small troop - but even that would be an asset to the region. New founders (ideally from North America since our population derives mostly from Europe) would be valuable in ensuring our population remains genetically viable into the future, with females easily accommodated by the other zoos in the region.

Technically, they could hold a group of a silverback and two females across both enclosures. The indoor areas are quite nice; the glass would need to be thickened but aside from that they're pretty much perfect. These enclosures were originally designed with gorillas in mind, once the pandas leave so it's not a coincidence the enclosures only need minor renovations for gorillas.

 

[Zoofan15]

Technically, they could hold a group of a silverback and two females across both enclosures. The indoor areas are quite nice; the glass would need to be thickened but aside from that they're pretty much perfect. These enclosures were originally designed with gorillas in mind, once the pandas leave so it's not a coincidence the enclosures only need minor renovations for gorillas.

The ideal scenario would be for Monarto and Adelaide to both hold troops as Adelaide would be better off holding a small bachelor troop in the long term given space constraints.

One way to achieve this would be for Adelaide to import 1.2 or 1.3 founders and then transferring the breeding troop to Monarto a decade later (with adolescent male offspring remaining at Adelaide). Additional females from the other zoos could then join the Monarto troop at this point; with Monarto bred females sent in exchange.

 

[Zorro]

I believe the main problem Gorillas have in our region is due to sheer lack of holders, Any movement more or less is with the EEP, but considering how few we have sending any out of the region really just strinks out small population even further.
The amount of young females which have moved out was harmful to the numbers kept here and curtailed population growth in the future, When one sees the EEP cup is now over flowing with animals as they are with Indian rhinos and Tapirs, while we are shrinking in numbers held.

 

[Grant Rhino]

I agree, Adelaide has had more than enough time with their pandas. And most of Australia (and New Zealand) have had more than enough time to come and see them.

Gorillas would be my choice for a replacement. They could easily hold a small breeding group across the two enclosures.

Sri Lankan Leopards would be the better choice for Adelaide too, considering they have the support of other zoos within the region.

Surely snow leopards are the logical replacement for the pandas - based on the look of the enclosure.

The fact that the red pandas are next door means that you have a ready-made Himalayan zone in the zoo!

You would hardly have to do anything to change that enclosure from a giant panda exhibit to a snow leopard exhibit.

 

[Zoofan15]

I believe the main problem Gorillas have in our region is due to sheer lack of holders, Any movement more or less is with the EEP, but considering how few we have sending any out of the region really just strinks out small population even further.
The amount of young females which have moved out was harmful to the numbers kept here and curtailed population growth in the future, When one sees the EEP cup is now over flowing with animals as they are with Indian rhinos and Tapirs, while we are shrinking in numbers held.

The lack of holders has indeed hindered the programme. Breeding has been restricted as males especially are difficult to place and females are only in demand within our own region. Taronga has a long term plan that will enable them to accomodate the three young males in their current troop, but are hesitating to breed further as there’s no guarantee of further placements via new holders.

I think the region needs to investigate options around dealing with population management including castration of young males or gender selection.