Global Captive Orca Population

Jonathan Petersson said:
Loro Parque and euthanasia are the only options left, all Japanese facilities are completely out of the picture. No facilities are going to be extremely transparent and frankly that is not a big concern when it comes to the whales welfare but rather just public knowledge. LP has since fixed the diet issue and has enrichment and welfare practices leagues better then Kamogawa or Suma giving their whales a much higher quality of life.
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I just want to point out that Japan is not out of the picture yet. As of now, the only thing we have is a minister stating on TV that she will refuse sending the whales to Japan... I'm not even sure there is a legal basis for this claim.
 
zoomaniac said:
@Evo: I fear that @Wisp O' Mist is right and I share his (or her? - sorry) statement. Nobody in Western Europe or the Americas would risk to burn his fingers by purchase orcas and built an exhibit for them - neither Zoos/Aquarias/Marinelands nor their sponsors. Unfortunately. And (bottle nosed) dolphins will be next....
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Out of interest how much does it cost to like build a fresh aquarium not like Chimelong or SeaWorld size but good facilities, decent sized tanks and staff?
 
When Marineland France built their current orca stadium in 2000, it cost them 20 million Euro. They also recently said that they spend around half a million Euro per year per whale in maintaince costs.

I remember Ingrid Visser fundraising 10 years ago for an adult killer whale size stretcher to help move stranded animals, and that on its own cost 10k.
 
Wisp O' Mist said:
I'd consider that extremely unlikely. Thanks to Animal Rights Activists, orca captivity is well on its way out in the western world. Any new holders are inevitably going to be in Asia, not Europe or the Americans.
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It wasn't activists fault. In 2018, Marineland was still the most popular attraction in its area.

2010 pre Blackfish - 1m annual visitors
2018 pre covid - 850,000 annual visitors
2023 post covid - 400,000 annual visitors

It was covid, cost of living crisis, and lack of investment from the owners that made them close. Everyone is struggling. Even zoos that don't hold cetaceans are on the ropes. People can't afford to spend money on luxuries, like zoo memberships, like they used to.
 
Jonathan Petersson said:
Ministry of Ecological Transition Rejects Application to Bring Orcas from Marineland Antibes to Sanctuary - The Whale Sanctuary Project | Back to Nature
The French government has rejected The Whale Sanctuary's application to transport Wikie and Kejio to their Nova Scotia "Sanctuary." This is great news for the whales and hopefully means that a transfer to Loro Parque will be coming up in March finally getting them out of Marineland.
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So let me get this straight, they don't have anything ready and they just expected the government just to send them two whales with nothing? How did they expect that to go
 
Very positive news to hear Wikie and Keijo will be heading to Loro Parque. Obviously the move couldn't come sooner. The longer they stay at ML the worst the situation will become for them, so I really hope they'll be transferred out now in the coming weeks.

On Morgan potentially being pregnant again, I'm surprised it's taken this long for Morgan to fall pregnant again. It's possible they weren't attempting to breed the pair. Another calf would be really good for the pods social dynamics anyhow and the arrivals of the two new whales from ML should also benefit the pod socially.
 
Orca obsessed said:
If it is Keto would this be the first time the calf was born after the sire?
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Kayla was born two months to the day after her sire Orky II died.

And while she doesn't technically count, her half-sister Orkid was born just three days before Orky II's death. Hence her name: Orky's kid.

Orkid was also rather infamously orphaned at the rather tender age of eleven months when her mother Kandu V was killed in a freak accident during a live show.

(Kandu V collided against the wall of the show pool while attempting to rake another female orca. As a result of the collision, Kandu V broke her upper jaw and ruptured an artery in it. She bled to death in under an hour. Orkid witnessed both the accident and her mother's death. Ironically, the very orca Kandu V had attempted to assert dominant over during her last show ended up being the one to raise her daughter afterwards! Corky II proved to be an excellent surrogate mother and she and Orkid reportedly remain close to this day. Also of interest is the fact that Corky II and Orky II were reportedly captured from the same pod. Meaning that they were almost certainly closely related, which would make Corky II an "aunt" of sorts to Orky II's daughters!)
 
Orca obsessed said:
Who do you think the sire is? If it is Keto would this be the first time the calf was born after the sire? Also would Morgan be able to raise a calf this time? Wikie could help her depending on how well they get along…
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You obviously can't rule out the other two but Keto's been the proven breeder in the past.

There's been countless calves born after their sires passing (both surviving and non surviving). With larger mammals with longer gestations this is pretty common.

In regards to Morgan's mothering skills; she was by all accounts, a really good mother. She had to be separated from Ula due to her inability to feed her.
 
In her latest Instagram post, Agnes Pannier-Runacher, the French Minister of Ecological Transformation, talks about the current status of the orcas at Marineland. If I understand her correctly (any fluent French speakers are welcome to correct me), she plans to consult with her Spanish, Italian and Greek counterparts to jointly promote their already existing plans to build "sanctuaries" for cetaceans from zoological facilities. No mention of a possible transfer to Loro Parque in the coming weeks or months. Perhaps Mr. Kiessling's media announcement was a bit premature? Ms. Pannier-Runacher also poses with Richard O'Barry and Paul Watson in a recent Instagram status promoting the "Année de la mer" (Year of the Sea) at the French Parliament. Call me overly pessimistic, but given the mindset that can be inferred from these posts, I frankly see little chance of the orcas actually leaving France for Loro Parque any time soon with this minister in charge. Not to mention what this will probably mean for the animals...
 
On a more personal note, I am quite shocked that such a powerful and high-ranking person as Ms. Pannier-Runacher appears to have completely succumbed to misinformation and social media outrage. According to her post, her planned attempt to promote a "sanctuary" in Europe is also driven by feedback she has received via social media. You can feel whatever way you want about orcas in human care, but I think from a rational point of view there can be no disagreement that staying in Antibes for any longer will seriously endanger the lives of Wikie and Keijo. A sanctuary that would take years to plan and build, if it ever comes to fruition, cannot be a viable alternative. Where are the scientific experts, where is the zoological community to step in and stop this disaster waiting to happen?
 
To me, this is extremely disappointing. I also wonder though, does she actually have the authority to stop the transfer herself? I was under the belief that it was the courts stopping the transfer and not this minister. I am not an expert in French law or anything, but I wonder how much her opinion has a bearing on the court’s decision.

edit: I found a version with English captions. In the video she doesn’t specifically call out Loro Parque or say a transfer won’t happen, but that they won’t be transferred anywhere “unsuitable” and that she will ask the other European countries mentioned (Italy, Greece, Spain) if a sanctuary can be made. She doesn’t outright confirm that they will stay in France or that they will 100% go with the sanctuary plan no matter what.
 
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BlobfishBoy said:
To me, this is extremely disappointing. I also wonder though, does she actually have the authority to stop the transfer herself? I was under the belief that it was the courts stopping the transfer and not this minister. I am not an expert in French law or anything, but I wonder how much her opinion has a bearing on the court’s decision.

edit: I found a version with English captions. In the video she doesn’t specifically call out Loro Parque or say a transfer won’t happen, but that they won’t be transferred anywhere “unsuitable” and that she will ask the other European countries mentioned (Italy, Greece, Spain) if a sanctuary can be made. She doesn’t outright confirm that they will stay in France or that they will 100% go with the sanctuary plan no matter what.
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All right, thanks for the addition. I'm not entirely clear on the legal situation either. If anyone has a deeper insight, I would be happy to learn about it. In any case, it seems to me that the minister would prefer the "sanctuary" solution to any other. I don't know how much power she actually has to influence the outcome now. Let's hope it's just up to the court to decide now and come to a (hopefully) responsible and well-informed decision.

I apologize for my somewhat emotional first reaction. Watching this video, after I thought this issue was finally on its way to being settled for good, freaked me out a bit.
 
What surprises me is that she says verbatim "I opposed the transfert to Japan". I had no idea a minister could entervene directly in such a petty matter, especially since there are legal bodies responsible for delivering the permits, with specific criteria that have little to do with animal welfare.

The whole thing is just so bizarre to me... do we even need to have a national discussion for like 12 animals?
 
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