Goals for the members of ARAZPA 08/09
- Thread starter Coquinguy
- Start date
I'm sure you're aware of this, but Magellanics have turned up in both Victoria and NZ (in somewhat dubious circumstances however, probably boat-assisted -- anyone have a spare boat?)
Jeez I'm quick on the uptake!
It's only taken me 2 months to pick up on glyn's statement that Asiatic Golden Cats are headed for phase-out!
Why is this happening?
Ocelots, Clouded Leopards and now Golden Cats!
What small cats are we left with? Fishing cats and Servals. O.K., so small cats are not the most dynamic exhibits in zoos; but again and again the region's zoos make a start with a species, a half-hearted breeding effort follows and then they lose interest and look for something else. (New toys.)
It's only taken me 2 months to pick up on glyn's statement that Asiatic Golden Cats are headed for phase-out!
Why is this happening?
Ocelots, Clouded Leopards and now Golden Cats!
What small cats are we left with? Fishing cats and Servals. O.K., so small cats are not the most dynamic exhibits in zoos; but again and again the region's zoos make a start with a species, a half-hearted breeding effort follows and then they lose interest and look for something else. (New toys.)
its not all doom and gloom. some aussie cats will be sent to NZ where Auckland and another institution will continue breeding.
this species may well re-emerge in the future, though in this case I can understand your frustration, especially given the import of overseas animals in recent years and continued success of Melbourne Zoo.
Perhaps if small zoos like Mogo didnt focus so much on white lions they could take up the whole breeding program themselves
this species may well re-emerge in the future, though in this case I can understand your frustration, especially given the import of overseas animals in recent years and continued success of Melbourne Zoo.
Perhaps if small zoos like Mogo didnt focus so much on white lions they could take up the whole breeding program themselves
The Cincinnati Zoo in the State of Ohio has white lions, tigers, cheetahs, and in addition 15 species of small felines. That one zoo has a wider variety of cats than all of the zoos and wildlife parks in the entirety of Australiasia! It just goes to show how narrow and focused the Aussie breeding programs are. The same goes for the bear situation, with sun bears being the #1 focus and then a motley assortment of others hanging around waiting to be phased out. Is the lack of variety because of the notoriously strict import laws, or just because there aren't enough zoos to have a proper range of genetic diversity? It's a crying shame, as fishing cats and servals are fine for collections, but there are so many other small cat species that zoo fans would love to be able to visit.
No doubt about Cincinnati, snowleopard, even their football team are called the Cincinnati Bengals (with tiger coloured uniforms!)
Realistically, I think Australia's limited number of species is due to a small population with few zoos (I believe I read somewhere that the whole population of the Australian continent is the same as the state of Pennsylvania.) There DOES however seem to be a bloody-minded determination to focus on an ever narrowing range of species. It's not like small cat species (or small primates, for that matter) cost the earth to import, house or look after but I think, regrettably, resources are limited and the "bean counter" mentality is getting stronger - ("no Asiatic Golden Cats? Won't reduce gate-takings at all! No lions? That might cost us money!")
The claim that zoos are limiting the number of species in order to concentrate more effectively on those that they retain is sound in theory, but does not seem to be taking place in practice.
Whether or not a species is fashionable (for want of a better term) seems to have a lot to do with it. We are told, for example, that the Sulawesi Crested Macaque and the De Brazza's Guenon are "Non-viable." Perth Zoo has 3 male and 3 female S.C.Macaques and there are 6 male and 3 female DeB. Guenons in Australia. Both species could be made very viable by the importation of just one female of each species. (I wish the TAGs were more honest and instead of saying "Non-viable" they would simply admit that the species are viable, but unwanted.)
Likewise, both Himalayan Tahrs and Barbary Sheep (Aoudads) are, we are assured, "in collapse." Nobody seems to have told the animals, however; both are breeding strongly with lots of healthy babies.
snowleopard, don't get me started on bears; the determination of Australian zoos to have only Sun Bears ("We need ALL the places for Sun Bears!") despite never having bred one is about as rational as saying that because we are endeavouring to breed Cheetahs, we should get rid of all other big cats! (Don't we need ALL the spaces for Cheetahs?)
Realistically, I think Australia's limited number of species is due to a small population with few zoos (I believe I read somewhere that the whole population of the Australian continent is the same as the state of Pennsylvania.) There DOES however seem to be a bloody-minded determination to focus on an ever narrowing range of species. It's not like small cat species (or small primates, for that matter) cost the earth to import, house or look after but I think, regrettably, resources are limited and the "bean counter" mentality is getting stronger - ("no Asiatic Golden Cats? Won't reduce gate-takings at all! No lions? That might cost us money!")
The claim that zoos are limiting the number of species in order to concentrate more effectively on those that they retain is sound in theory, but does not seem to be taking place in practice.
Whether or not a species is fashionable (for want of a better term) seems to have a lot to do with it. We are told, for example, that the Sulawesi Crested Macaque and the De Brazza's Guenon are "Non-viable." Perth Zoo has 3 male and 3 female S.C.Macaques and there are 6 male and 3 female DeB. Guenons in Australia. Both species could be made very viable by the importation of just one female of each species. (I wish the TAGs were more honest and instead of saying "Non-viable" they would simply admit that the species are viable, but unwanted.)
Likewise, both Himalayan Tahrs and Barbary Sheep (Aoudads) are, we are assured, "in collapse." Nobody seems to have told the animals, however; both are breeding strongly with lots of healthy babies.
snowleopard, don't get me started on bears; the determination of Australian zoos to have only Sun Bears ("We need ALL the places for Sun Bears!") despite never having bred one is about as rational as saying that because we are endeavouring to breed Cheetahs, we should get rid of all other big cats! (Don't we need ALL the spaces for Cheetahs?)
Don't get me wrong; I'm not anti-sun bears by any means (and in fact ALL Asiatic bears need all the help we can give them, their treatment in their home countries is disgusting!) I'm just in favour of keeping other bears as well. I guess my opinion is formed by the fact that when I was young any zoo worthy of the name had 5 or 6 different species of bears. While I'm not so unrealistic as to expect that today, I can't understand the almost "anti-bears" outlook of many people.
Auckland Zoo didnt breed Sun Bears, that was Wellington Zoo, who have produced three cubs to date.
To be fair until the recent import of the pair to Perth this species has never really had a particularly fair go in this country, and Perth is still the only major zoo to keep this species in a properly designed enclosure.
I can understand the frustration of the members of this forum, but just as we applaud the decision of TWPZ to import into this country the only Indian Rhinos in the region we stand around getting nervous looking at the status of Black Rhino. Ara, I would have loved to of been around in your day when there was such a diversity of exotics but at the end of the day back then you could call a concrete cell and exhibit, import relatively freely, didnt really have to worry about breeding replacements (you just imported them) and could jam stacks of animals into smaller areas and not have to worry about silly immersion-style landscapes or even worse educational signs. lol
I believe our zoos could probably maintain viably a few more species and there have been a number of species listed for phase out which really erk me. For example we have a good represantative collection of New World primates, with various marmosets and tamarins, and capuchin, squirrel and spider monkey yet comparatively fewer Old World species, and the decision to hold on to Colobus and deliberately hybridise them rather than keeping pure De Brazza Guenon is annoying, especially when both are vulnerable, both are 'safe' internationally in zoos, and at the time of the TAG decision both had around the same number of founders.
Where a species is more endangered than a similar species than I think the endangered species should always win out in collection planning decisions. Inevitably, I reckon that over the next decade more species will die out as zoos reorganise their collections and then I predict they'll pretty much do a back-flip and reimport some species, as well as some new ones.
Unfortunately, its unlikely all will make it. Pygmy Hippo may just get through, Collared Peccary or Congo Buffalo wont. Persian Onager.....hmmm. Theyre endangered, yes, but the herd here is highly related so another program that could go down the gurgler. Two tapirs.....will only one make it or will zoos realise they could have both by importing some new Brazilians and giving Malayans a fair go with shady enclosures......Francois Langur; their future hinges on importing more, in the meantime Dusky's and Javans could slip by and we will be 'langurless'. Without fresh genes Silvery Gibbons could also slip through, or at least persist as non-breeding pairs. Dont expect to see macaques in any major zoo, or a great array of antelope, though Impala could make an appearance and save the day as Bongo start having 5 legged calves and our zoos admit breeding mothers with sons to 5th generation is not a good idea.
On the plus side, we will have viable populations of many, many species and in the mean time ARAZPA may have further ironed out the disparate methods and ideas which surely lead to these PMP pitfalls in the first place.
To be fair until the recent import of the pair to Perth this species has never really had a particularly fair go in this country, and Perth is still the only major zoo to keep this species in a properly designed enclosure.
I can understand the frustration of the members of this forum, but just as we applaud the decision of TWPZ to import into this country the only Indian Rhinos in the region we stand around getting nervous looking at the status of Black Rhino. Ara, I would have loved to of been around in your day when there was such a diversity of exotics but at the end of the day back then you could call a concrete cell and exhibit, import relatively freely, didnt really have to worry about breeding replacements (you just imported them) and could jam stacks of animals into smaller areas and not have to worry about silly immersion-style landscapes or even worse educational signs. lol
I believe our zoos could probably maintain viably a few more species and there have been a number of species listed for phase out which really erk me. For example we have a good represantative collection of New World primates, with various marmosets and tamarins, and capuchin, squirrel and spider monkey yet comparatively fewer Old World species, and the decision to hold on to Colobus and deliberately hybridise them rather than keeping pure De Brazza Guenon is annoying, especially when both are vulnerable, both are 'safe' internationally in zoos, and at the time of the TAG decision both had around the same number of founders.
Where a species is more endangered than a similar species than I think the endangered species should always win out in collection planning decisions. Inevitably, I reckon that over the next decade more species will die out as zoos reorganise their collections and then I predict they'll pretty much do a back-flip and reimport some species, as well as some new ones.
Unfortunately, its unlikely all will make it. Pygmy Hippo may just get through, Collared Peccary or Congo Buffalo wont. Persian Onager.....hmmm. Theyre endangered, yes, but the herd here is highly related so another program that could go down the gurgler. Two tapirs.....will only one make it or will zoos realise they could have both by importing some new Brazilians and giving Malayans a fair go with shady enclosures......Francois Langur; their future hinges on importing more, in the meantime Dusky's and Javans could slip by and we will be 'langurless'. Without fresh genes Silvery Gibbons could also slip through, or at least persist as non-breeding pairs. Dont expect to see macaques in any major zoo, or a great array of antelope, though Impala could make an appearance and save the day as Bongo start having 5 legged calves and our zoos admit breeding mothers with sons to 5th generation is not a good idea.
On the plus side, we will have viable populations of many, many species and in the mean time ARAZPA may have further ironed out the disparate methods and ideas which surely lead to these PMP pitfalls in the first place.
sorry Glyn, wrong zoo!
And ahgree on all other pints, well said again. I don't think wee need to be worried about black rhino. It was only ever inteneded for TWPZ to hold them, in association with the Zimbawae Govt. It has worked out luckyly we can have animals go to taronga, and to monarto.
It hasnt been mention here depsite being sprawled across many news sites, but TWPZ just created the first Test tube rhino in the world, very exctiing development, they now have a growing embryo
And ahgree on all other pints, well said again. I don't think wee need to be worried about black rhino. It was only ever inteneded for TWPZ to hold them, in association with the Zimbawae Govt. It has worked out luckyly we can have animals go to taronga, and to monarto.
It hasnt been mention here depsite being sprawled across many news sites, but TWPZ just created the first Test tube rhino in the world, very exctiing development, they now have a growing embryo
Good points, guys.
And you're right, glyn, about the comparison of Taronga today compared with a few decades ago - I'm sure the animals have a better life now. I have old photos of animals at Taronga standing around on concrete floors surrounded by concrete walls. For example, the area now occupied by the chimpanzee enclosure was in 1960 a bunch of smallish corrals which held 16 eland, 2 pygmy hippos, 4 anoa, 1 malay tapir (blind of course), a cross-bred domestic/przewalski's horse, 5 or 6 water buffalo ( including 2 albinos), 3 wildebeest and 4 Chapman's zebra mares. Really packed in, and if they hadn't been kept on concrete the whole area would have been on the nose and very unhealthy.
Just below them, where the bongo etc. are today, were herds of deer, blackbuck and sitatunga, also on concrete. There were so many ungulates that a truck full of lucerne would arrive from the zoo's farm at Mona Vale (about half an hour north of the zoo) on week-days and drive slowly around the zoo while 2 keepers with pitchforks stood in the back and fed the green browse out. Week-ends they made do with dry hay.
Animals were easily acquired from overseas (compared to today!) Nevertheless, Taronga had a good record of breeding - in fact the first black rhino bred in Australia was born there in August 1958 (coming up for 50 years ago!) Chimps and orangs have always bred well - even polar bears were bred in the early days.
And you're right, glyn, about the comparison of Taronga today compared with a few decades ago - I'm sure the animals have a better life now. I have old photos of animals at Taronga standing around on concrete floors surrounded by concrete walls. For example, the area now occupied by the chimpanzee enclosure was in 1960 a bunch of smallish corrals which held 16 eland, 2 pygmy hippos, 4 anoa, 1 malay tapir (blind of course), a cross-bred domestic/przewalski's horse, 5 or 6 water buffalo ( including 2 albinos), 3 wildebeest and 4 Chapman's zebra mares. Really packed in, and if they hadn't been kept on concrete the whole area would have been on the nose and very unhealthy.
Just below them, where the bongo etc. are today, were herds of deer, blackbuck and sitatunga, also on concrete. There were so many ungulates that a truck full of lucerne would arrive from the zoo's farm at Mona Vale (about half an hour north of the zoo) on week-days and drive slowly around the zoo while 2 keepers with pitchforks stood in the back and fed the green browse out. Week-ends they made do with dry hay.
Animals were easily acquired from overseas (compared to today!) Nevertheless, Taronga had a good record of breeding - in fact the first black rhino bred in Australia was born there in August 1958 (coming up for 50 years ago!) Chimps and orangs have always bred well - even polar bears were bred in the early days.
I think we could tick some of the check list off.
NSW & ACT
Breeding Pygmy Hippo
and that's all I know of unless coroborree frogs have bred.
VICTORIA
Collared Peccary have bred
Mandrills had a baby not so long ago and I think a new goal is to find homes for the Mandrills
SOUTH AUSTRALIA
Chimpanzees on display at Monarto
WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Did WA get any?
QUEENSLAND
Same as WA?
NSW & ACT
Breeding Pygmy Hippo
and that's all I know of unless coroborree frogs have bred.
VICTORIA
Collared Peccary have bred
Mandrills had a baby not so long ago and I think a new goal is to find homes for the Mandrills
SOUTH AUSTRALIA
Chimpanzees on display at Monarto
WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Did WA get any?
QUEENSLAND
Same as WA?
tick off australia zoo gettin white rhino, monarto breeding hyeana, melbourne zoo breeding/mating asian elephants and adelaide bred their langurs too. taronga also has a potential breeding pair of leopard seals, although at the moment no breeding is planned. additionally adelaide is still on track to receive giant pandas.
and regionally there have been lemur births
and regionally there have been lemur births
Glyn,
Admittedly, for leaf-eating monkeys Adelaide Zoo is the only facility with a long-term "good prospect" label for its dusky langur. Taronga maintains 1.1 Francois (with no imports looming on the horizon) and Melbourne have just 1.1 Javan silvery langur. The latter 2 not something to be proud of ... and I do not comprehend given that your Biosecurity restricutions on import of langurs from range countries are way not as strict as hoofstock and birds ....
What is actually now the situation with tapirs ... Does ARAZPA continue with Malayans if in a better social/environmental setting in zoos ... Here, I do not understand the sudden delve into a top rainforest tapir species like Brazilians?
Where on Earth is the ARAZPA policy on support for ex situ conservation of SE Asian wildlife? Admittedly, ARAZPA is better equipped in the support of in situ initiatives (e.g. the much lauded Silvery Gibbon Project ...)?
(Just a few thoughts from a zoological ... lovable freak (LOL))!