I believe this is already being worked on, though I don't know where. I see it as possibly the way forward for Gorillas (and maybe other species too.) Otherwise the 'male problem' will continue indefinately.
Gorilla Casteration
- Thread starter zooman
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I believe this is already being worked on, though I don't know where. I see it as possibly the way forward for Gorillas (and maybe other species too.) Otherwise the 'male problem' will continue indefinately.
Leptonyx
Well-Known Member
Right back at you zooman
The topics you pick are fascinating, which makes it excellent for discussion- so thank you! I'm actually only into my fourth month of my masters...so still quite a ways to go before you'll be able to read anything. However in our preliminary analysis of body and reproductive condition, one population was significantly worse off than the other. We're going to have to dig deeper to get some habitat analysis done- but even now it's pretty exciting that we have such strong results
!Bachelor groups in mountain gorillas - Pertinax, I`ve found some more info in Dian Fossey`s book and via google. I think "the" bachelor group was not the all-male-group no. 9 after Coco`s death, but the group which formed some years later under the leadership of Peanuts. Remeber, after Coco`s death old Rafiki stayed alone with his youngest son Peanuts (the 3 older ones left relatively soon) and his female Macho and their baby daugther. Then Rafiki died and Peanuts tried to defend Macho and the baby against neighbouring groups, but couldn`t (he was either still blackback or a very young silverback at the time of his father`s death). The silverback of group 4, "Uncle Bert", took Macho and killed the baby and Peanuts was alone for the next years. He was injured by Uncle Bert and never recovered 100%, which might be the reason why he could never gain females.
Then in 1978, 3 animals from group 4 were killed by poachers, a backback (Digit), and later Uncle Bert and female Macho, in an effort to steal their baby. After that, group 4 was left without an adult silverback, the oldest male member was blackback Beetsme, then teenager Tiger and 4 year old Titus. In consequence, the females all left, incl. Titus mother, and the 3 males remained alone. They then joined Peanuts and the 4 formed "the" all-male-group. 2 other unrelated young males joined them, but later left again. In 1985, silverback Nunkie died and the all-male-group under the leadership of Beetmee gained some of Nunkie`s females and their offspring. I am not sure when Peanuts died, and if he was driven away before that by Beetmee, and I`m also unsure when Tiger left, but in the end, Beetsmee and Titus were the only members of the all-amle-group which stayed together with the females. Peanuts died, and Tiger was a lone silverback before he could gain a female. Unforunately, he was later deadly injured by another silverback. Beetsmee and Titus had a strong bond and stayed together until Beetsmee`s death, although Titus had become dominant a number of years ago. Both worked together to protect their family. Titus is a highly interesting example for studies on male-male relationships in mountain gorillas, not just because of his history with (unrelated) Beetmee, but also because of his oldest son Kuryama. Kuryama is a silverback now and challenged his father, with the result that the family split in 2 in 2007. But Titus is 34 and is aging and the researchers suggest that he felt he could not protect his family on his own, so a year after the split, he and his females joined Kuryama`s part of the group again, who is now the dominant silverback.
In conclusion, I feel this pretty much confirms what we`re seeing in captive all-male-groups. Some silverback bond and/or accept each other and can live together or at least along each other, while many others are too dominant and become agressive and need to be taken out of the group (since they can`t leave on their own). All-male-groups in captivity work relatively well when there`s just one fully adult silverback (same with Peanut`s group), but the males strike to change the situation. In the wild, it`s not a permanent solution, but temporary until the males can gain females. Since Peanut`s all-male-group stopped being all-male in 1985, no further bachelor groups have been observed in the study area, and given that 23 years have passed and the number of gorillas has nealy doubled, I think all-male-groups are pretty rare in the wild and male gorillas try to avoid such situations. Most males which leave their groups rather stay on their own. But many stay in their birth groups, with increasing group sizes (20+) groups with 2 or even more silverbacks are common.
Then in 1978, 3 animals from group 4 were killed by poachers, a backback (Digit), and later Uncle Bert and female Macho, in an effort to steal their baby. After that, group 4 was left without an adult silverback, the oldest male member was blackback Beetsme, then teenager Tiger and 4 year old Titus. In consequence, the females all left, incl. Titus mother, and the 3 males remained alone. They then joined Peanuts and the 4 formed "the" all-male-group. 2 other unrelated young males joined them, but later left again. In 1985, silverback Nunkie died and the all-male-group under the leadership of Beetmee gained some of Nunkie`s females and their offspring. I am not sure when Peanuts died, and if he was driven away before that by Beetmee, and I`m also unsure when Tiger left, but in the end, Beetsmee and Titus were the only members of the all-amle-group which stayed together with the females. Peanuts died, and Tiger was a lone silverback before he could gain a female. Unforunately, he was later deadly injured by another silverback. Beetsmee and Titus had a strong bond and stayed together until Beetsmee`s death, although Titus had become dominant a number of years ago. Both worked together to protect their family. Titus is a highly interesting example for studies on male-male relationships in mountain gorillas, not just because of his history with (unrelated) Beetmee, but also because of his oldest son Kuryama. Kuryama is a silverback now and challenged his father, with the result that the family split in 2 in 2007. But Titus is 34 and is aging and the researchers suggest that he felt he could not protect his family on his own, so a year after the split, he and his females joined Kuryama`s part of the group again, who is now the dominant silverback.
In conclusion, I feel this pretty much confirms what we`re seeing in captive all-male-groups. Some silverback bond and/or accept each other and can live together or at least along each other, while many others are too dominant and become agressive and need to be taken out of the group (since they can`t leave on their own). All-male-groups in captivity work relatively well when there`s just one fully adult silverback (same with Peanut`s group), but the males strike to change the situation. In the wild, it`s not a permanent solution, but temporary until the males can gain females. Since Peanut`s all-male-group stopped being all-male in 1985, no further bachelor groups have been observed in the study area, and given that 23 years have passed and the number of gorillas has nealy doubled, I think all-male-groups are pretty rare in the wild and male gorillas try to avoid such situations. Most males which leave their groups rather stay on their own. But many stay in their birth groups, with increasing group sizes (20+) groups with 2 or even more silverbacks are common.
That's a pretty good resume. It seems very limited evidence to base the 'males will live together harmoniously' theory, and the reality shows silverbacks sometimes will and sometimes they won't. The Port Lympne 5 silverbacks(which mostly grew up from a younger age) seem happy enough together, only No 6 has had to be seperated permanently. Loro Parc's seem okay too, though I have heard nothing about this group for several years now. But in other groups (e.g. St Louis, Paignton) there's been at least some fighting as they mature. I guess it depends largely on the individual animals and the amount of space they have. With careful management, the 'one silverback and several younger males' mix definately does seem to work okay though.