Gorilla escape London Zoo

The early evening news showed Malcolm Fitzpatrick saying very little to explain the situation, whilst Ian Redmond predictably jumped on the anti-keeping- apes- in- captivity bandwagon. Very poor really.

I certainly think more needs to be done to reduce the effect the public have on winding the gorillas up through the viewing windows.

Perhaps some gorillas are more prone to being wound up by the public than others? Thinking about it didn`t Kumbuka come from Paignton and I am sure their viewing windows were partially covered ?
 
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more on the band wagonhttp:

//www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/do-zoos-have-any-place-in-a-modern-society/
 
Nanook said:
Perhaps some gorillas are more prone to being wound up by the public than others? Thinking about it didn`t Kumbuka come from Paignton and I am sure their viewing windows were partially covered ?
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Yes, he was at Paignton and the windows are partially covered. When he became a challenge to Pertinax and much larger than the others, he was kept separate and was rarely seen in the showden. He did get wound up by noisy people both inside and outside, where he'd throw things. When Matadi was here he'd charge the covered window when things got bad.
 
Most male gorillas will do this sort of thing, particularly if they are perturbed by noise, by visitors or by other gorillas in the group. It is perfectly normal for adult males to display, and indeed the group expect it, but there are individual differences between males. I think zoos with younger and more excitable silverbacks should try to minimise stresses which might trigger frequent displays: likewise exhibits should be designed with this in mind. Unfortunately the Gorilla Kingdom was built while Bobby was the silverback and he was significantly smaller and older than Kumbuka. I think it is also significant that Kumbuka sees more visitors at London than he did at Paignton and they are often closer to him.
It has been a while since I have visited Regent's Park, but I thought they usually had a keeper or presenter on duty beside the indoor exhibit to moderate public behaviour - enforcing the no-flash rule, calming over-exuberant children etc.
London Zoo is bound to get more publicity than any other zoo in the country simply because London is the media hub, so this publicity may actually encourage people to visit Gorilla Kingdom, but it will certainly make it more likely that visitors will wind Kumbuka up - generally just by pointing and making excited comments, rather than doing it deliberately. This will make it particularly important to have extra staff on duty there.
I regret that it seems that ZSL have not yet explained exactly how yesterday's incident happened.

Alan
 
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gentle lemur said:
Most male gorillas will do this sort of thing, particularly if they are perturbed by noise, by visitors or by other gorillas in the group. It is perfectly normal for adult males to display, and indeed the group expect it, but there are individual differences between males. I think zoos with younger and more excitable silverbacks should try to minimise stresses which might trigger frequent displays: likewise exhibits should be designed with this in mind. Unfortunately the Gorilla Kingdom was built while Bobby was the silverback and he was significantly smaller and older than Kumbuka. I think it is also significant that Kumbuka sees more visitors at London than he did at Paignton and they are often closer to him.
It has been a while since I have visited Regent's Park, but I thought they usually had a keeper or presenter on duty beside the indoor exhibit to moderate public behaviour - enforcing the no-flash rule, calming over-exuberant children etc.
London Zoo is bound to get more publicity than any other zoo in the country simply because London is the media hub, so this publicity may actually encourage people to visit Gorilla Kingdom, but it will certainly make it more likely that visitors will wind Kumbuka up - generally just by pointing and making excited comments, rather than doing it deliberately. This will make it particularly important to have extra staff on duty there.
I regret that it seems that ZSL have not yet explained exactly how yesterday's incident happened.

Alan
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Agreed. From Gigit`s reply it seems he was a particularly sensitive animal even at Paignton.
I do think London zoo dealt with the media situation quite poorly.
As it happened the incident was, or should have been, in reality, quite a low key incident, in that the animal was still safely contained, there are so many zoo animal escapes that never reach the media`s ears because they are dealt with quietly in- house. Had this not been broadcast and the police brought in, the whole thing could have been sorted out with little fuss and without the attention of the anti-zoo idiots getting involved.
 
gentle lemur said:
Unfortunately the Gorilla Kingdom was built while Bobby was the silverback and he was significantly smaller and older than Kumbuka. I think it is also significant that Kumbuka sees more visitors at London than he did at Paignton and they are often closer to him.

It has been a while since I have visited Regent's Park, but I thought they usually had a keeper or presenter on duty beside the indoor exhibit to moderate public behaviour - enforcing the no-flash rule, calming over-exuberant children etc.

London Zoo is bound to get more publicity than any other zoo in the country simply because London is the media hub, so this publicity may actually encourage people to visit Gorilla Kingdom, but it will certainly make it more likely that visitors will wind Kumbuka up - generally just by pointing and making excited comments, rather than doing it deliberately. This will make it particularly important to have extra staff on duty there.

I regret that it seems that ZSL have not yet explained exactly how yesterday's incident happened.

Alan
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You have hit the nail on the head here- about four times.;)

1. Gorilla Kingdom was indeed first occupied for several years by the relatively quiet(almost gentle) 'Bobby'- and until Kumbuka arrived it had not been tested by a young and feisty silverback like Kumbuka. The cracked and boarded up glass panels I've seen since since seem to show its been found rather wanting.

2. On my last visit I noticed someone on duty controlling noisy visitors, preventing flash cameras etc. But when I revisited at a quieter period later there seemed no volunteeer or whatever around, so there must be periods with nobody overseeing the public. Also I noticed barriers have been installed in front of the viewing panels, firstly the interior area, and more recently along the covered viewing area overlooking the outdoors too, putting visitors several feet further back than previously, but it seems still not far enough away.

3. Kumbuka has of course now established a greater measure of fame with this incident, however little deserved it is. No doubt as you say people will be expecting to see more aggressive behaviour from him. But he is a perfectly normal male, the problem is just the design- despite the modifications, people can still get too close and interact with him. You only have to look at all the videos on Youtube of gorillas in Zoos, particularly in the USA it seems, being filmed displaying and hitting windows- its really very commonplace behaviour and not just Kumbuka at ZSL.

4. I was trawling the ZSL Facebook comments about this- there are many. Perhaps because of the innacurate press coverage, a lot are under the mistaken impression the escape was because he was 'stressed' which leads to many arguments about the rights and wrongs of captive animals etc. I couldn't find a single one which queried how it happened though. I think the zoo should explain that, if only to quell the anti-zoo feeling this event may have stirred up.
 
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Nanook said:
Agreed. From Gigit`s reply it seems he was a particularly sensitive animal even at Paignton.
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Because of the dynamics of their male group, Kumbuka was seperated from the others and then never reintroduced. Consequently he spent several years living alone without full contact with the other gorillas. During this time as he reached maturity, he related to the public a lot- developing typical gorilla habits like throwing things over the watermoat etc, quite possibly as a way of making contact.

He was kept out of the indoor showden at Paignton with its glass viewing windows( the one the gorillas can actually reach directly has for some time been tinted like a stained glass church one to restrict any vision) presumably at least partly, because of his behaviour, but on arrival at ZSL the design meant he had to be on show much closer to the public.
 
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Panthera1981 said:
Agreed, but Bristol have a similar set up-how do they manage?
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They are just different individuals. Bristol's silverback Jock does not seem to relate to people very much. He sits quietly indoors in full view of visitors at a similar distance as at London, with little reaction. But even here a barrier was installed to put visitors further back from the viewing windows which people could go right up to in the original design.

Kumbuka is younger, a different temperament perhaps, and also has two small young in his group.
 
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Pertinax said:
1. Gorilla Kingdom was indeed first occupied for several years by the relatively quiet(almost gentle) 'Bobby'- and until Kumbuka arrived it had not been tested by a young and feisty silverback like Kumbuka. The cracked and boarded up glass panels I've seen since since seem to show its been found rather wanting.
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While it is ultimately the zoo's responsibility to approve all construction, it should be pointed out that the architects for this facility had no experience with gorilla holding or exhibits, or with zoo animals of any size.
 
Zooplantman said:
While it is ultimately the zoo's responsibility to approve all construction, it should be pointed out that the architects for this facility had no experience with gorilla holding or exhibits, or with zoo animals of any size.
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That is often the complaint about Zoo exhibits, that the design itself is computed by architects without experience of the behaviour, actual strength, leaping or climbing ability etc of the animals that are to inhabit the enclosures they design. For years nobody knew the Rotterdam gorilla male Bokito was capable of crossing the watermoat of his enclosure, but he eventually proved he could. With all of their previous silverbacks in the older Sobell pavilions, ZSL seemed to have had no problems with damage to the enclosure, only with the current one.

Of course his so-called 'escape' was very likely not connected with design fault though they have not said what caused it.
 
Pertinax said:
They are just different individuals. Bristol's silverback Jock does not seem to relate to people very much. He sits quietly indoors in full view of visitors at a similar distance as at London, with little reaction. But even here a barrier was installed to put visitors further back from the viewing windows which people could go right up to in the original design.

Kumbuka is younger, a different temperament perhaps, and also has two small young in his group.
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I've not seen the exhibit at RP - would a "stand back" barrier be practical and helpful?
 
While at Dudley zoo many years ago when they had the three apes in the now Orangutan house the middle one used to house a Male Gorilla and on many occasions I can remember the male running and bouncing off the glass and yes it bend like it was going to break.

Yes I did notice it was the behaviour of the visitor that brought this reaction from the species so should the exhibit be redesigned for the safety of the Gorilla.

I have just had to re-register again as my e-mail was not recognised again it appears everytime I log out I can't log back in without re-registering.
 
AdrianW1963 said:
Yes I did notice it was the behaviour of the visitor that brought this reaction from the species so should the exhibit be redesigned for the safety of the Gorilla.
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I had a look at the very brief video of Kumbuka hitting the glass in the indoor area at sometime before the 'escape'. In fact he does not look very angry there - no pursed lips or rigid stance with darting eyes before a 'fast run and slam'- just a sudden surprise slap- either irritation or even playful. Not saying he doesn't get wound up but this hardly shows it. But why the noise from the people- where are volunteers supposedly to stop that?. Too late in the day to have them on duty?
 
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Pertinax said:
The story seems to be he hit the glass indoors (as per video). Later hit and broke one of the panes outside- so seemingly was more seriously wound up by then, though its not the first time he's done that. Went back into the indoor area and somehow then walked out into the service part of the offshow area. Not sure the two are even related though.
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Why did they allow a Gorilla in an area where they had a broken pain of glass surely this is dangerous by itself?
 
Sorry misunderstood the wording.

Have they now put him back in with the others or is he in a area by himself.
 
Whilst zoo enclosure design has improved in more recent years, with more consideration now given to the animals actual requirements, yet there is still far too much money being wasted in creating some kind of work of art rather than creating a functional and suitable living space, and it is the quality of that space that is the most important thing.
The big problem is that the people that design zoo animal enclosures ie; the architects and planners are not zoo people, and they are not animal keepers.
But worse than that, they usually do not even consult the animal keepers to ask what is required. Only occasionally do the keepers get the chance to have any input into an animals enclosure design, and that is where they are going wrong.

Many years ago the male gorilla Kumba (the original one) at Chessington Zoo twice broke the glass in his den due to being wound up by the public, indeed the male chimp Sinbad also suffered terribly from being tormented by some stupid members of the public back in the 70`s.
 
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