I saw Kumbuka today and he is a large and impressive male. There was a sign saying he was born in 1997. I've heard of Klinefelter's Syndrome in humans, I had no idea it was present in gorillas. Did Kesho look any different physically? It's amazing how long gorillas and chimps can go without seeing a relative and still remeber them. I read a story of a chimpanzee called Sally at the Hamilton Zoo who recognised the lady who handraised her, after 40 years of not seeing her. Maybe after Frala has finished her stint as a breeding gorilla at Taronga (if they breed her with Kibali), she could be sent to Prague Zoo as support for her daughter Shinda, who doesn't seem to be able to breed. This would be very costly however and perhaps not advisable as by that time Frala would be in her fourties.
Taronga Zoo Gorilla Troop
- Thread starter Axl
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I saw Kumbuka today and he is a large and impressive male. There was a sign saying he was born in 1997. I've heard of Klinefelter's Syndrome in humans, I had no idea it was present in gorillas. Did Kesho look any different physically? It's amazing how long gorillas and chimps can go without seeing a relative and still remeber them. I read a story of a chimpanzee called Sally at the Hamilton Zoo who recognised the lady who handraised her, after 40 years of not seeing her. Maybe after Frala has finished her stint as a breeding gorilla at Taronga (if they breed her with Kibali), she could be sent to Prague Zoo as support for her daughter Shinda, who doesn't seem to be able to breed. This would be very costly however and perhaps not advisable as by that time Frala would be in her fourties.
Kibabu's transfer to Mogo will take place in the next few weeks
Zoo's elder statesman steps down without a fight | The Armidale Express
Zoo's elder statesman steps down without a fight | The Armidale Express
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This article refers to Mouila and Kriba leaving and as being two of Kibabu's favourite females, he only has three!
It also mentions that Kibali will be introduced to two more females, one being Frala, and the other one Mbeli?
This article refers to Mouila and Kriba leaving and as being two of Kibabu's favourite females, he only has three!
It also mentions that Kibali will be introduced to two more females, one being Frala, and the other one Mbeli?
'Kesho' looked completely normal- he was completel normal- just infertile(or presumed so- plenty of mating I think but no pregnancy.)
'Kumbuka' is one of those very stunning-looking males that crop up from time to time. Though handraised and from a bachelor group, there has apparenly been(some sort of) mating since his arrival at London and he seems to have settled in there very well considering. A pregnancy would be the icing on the cake though.
It says its a permanent transfer to Mogo. I hope that means Kibabu will stay with the females and not go to Orana Park?
If Mouila and Kriba and her small daughter leave, then the 'two other' females at Taronga must refer to Frala and Mbeli -coming back from Melbourne. They might arrange that before Melbourne get their new male so they don't have to integrate her with two different males in succession. Maybe the very young 'Kipenzi' will then be added to Taronga's group from Mogo when she is old enough.
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I didn't know he was anaemic...
I think he lived quite happily in the group so must have been treated as a female, or a 'nothing' by the silverback male.
Another young male 'Loango' from Apenheul was castrated in 2007 (aged three), and is now in the small group at GaiaPark/Kerkrade.
This sounds like the best plan to me. I understand Mbeli and Kimya were good company for each other during their time at Taronga together, I was dissapointed they sent Mbeli away in the first place. I'm sure Frala, Mbeli and Kimya will make a good group with Kibali.
That was my mistake sorry, he only suffered from anaemia in the last few weeks of his life, not his entire life as I incorrectly implied. Did they give a reason for castrating 'Loango'?
I think Mbeli was sent to Melbourne in an attempt to breed from her before the decision was made to replace Kibabu etc. If Rigo had turned out to be a breeder, she would have bred by now, but equally, could have stayed at Taronga and bred with Kibali. I think it was just bad timing that caused them to move her.
Not that I remember, but my guess is it was because he is from a well-represented line so would never be required for breeding and so like Kukuma, he could be added to a male/female group on a permanent basis.
If over-representation of the line is behind castrations, I do wonder why zoos are continuing to breed so many infants from these lines. It seems very unfortunate to me to that a gorilla might be so dramatically altered just because sufficient planning has not been done.
I always thought it was good to have Mbeli in Melbourne's group, as her upbringing makes her the most likely female to rear an infant successfully, and be a potential role model. If I were a gorilla I'd much rather live in Melbourne's exhibit as well- much more opportunities to escape the public eye! I hope (if it is the case that she will return to Taronga) that it will be a happy reunion between her and Kimya. I have lovely memories of the two playing wildly together.
I always thought it was good to have Mbeli in Melbourne's group, as her upbringing makes her the most likely female to rear an infant successfully, and be a potential role model. If I were a gorilla I'd much rather live in Melbourne's exhibit as well- much more opportunities to escape the public eye! I hope (if it is the case that she will return to Taronga) that it will be a happy reunion between her and Kimya. I have lovely memories of the two playing wildly together.
Castration has only been done a very few times-in fact I don't know of other examples other than the two above. It does dramatically alter the animal's appearance, with non-development of adult male characteristics. I think it was tried mainly to see how it worked as an alternative to male groups but has not been used very often. Regarding the production of so many surplus males, its still a major problem in Gorilla husbandry.
It seems Kibabu's move to Mogo with Mouila and Kriba and their infants is now official(see that thread) So I guess Taronga will want Mbeli (in time) back to make up a new younger group(1.3). However, what happens to Kibabu's sons meanwhile- do they stay at Taronga for now?
Melbourne's exhibit is far superior- I'm not a fan of Taronga's- too small, too exposed. I wish they would fill in the water moat for a start,, it would double their outside space.
I have heard from a frequent visitor to Taronga, that Frala and her sons are in an off-exhibit area prior to the boys' move to wherever it is they're going. I am very curious to hear where they will be going, it sounds like the gorilla exhibit at Orana is still a way off.
Taronga's exhibit really doesn't do it for me, it seems far too small for such a large group (good thing that five will be leaving really), especially the indoor day room, which the gorillas appear to spend most of their time in. I'd love to see them given a larger indoor enclosure. I agree that Melbourne Zoo has a far superior enclosure, and would say Werribee does as well (though it does look a bit exposed, when I was there the gorillas mostly stayed in the wooden shelters). It will be interesting to see Mogo Zoo's exhibit, modified from the chimp enclosure. It has been described as a 'rainforest' enclosure, though some zoos seem to have an odd idea of what a rainforest is like.
Taronga's exhibit really doesn't do it for me, it seems far too small for such a large group (good thing that five will be leaving really), especially the indoor day room, which the gorillas appear to spend most of their time in. I'd love to see them given a larger indoor enclosure. I agree that Melbourne Zoo has a far superior enclosure, and would say Werribee does as well (though it does look a bit exposed, when I was there the gorillas mostly stayed in the wooden shelters). It will be interesting to see Mogo Zoo's exhibit, modified from the chimp enclosure. It has been described as a 'rainforest' enclosure, though some zoos seem to have an odd idea of what a rainforest is like.
I guess the two young males must leave before they can realistically add Frala and /or another female(M'Beli?) to 'Kibali' to make a group as such.
The first/only time I saw Taronga's enclosure I was surprised at its small size. The group was quite big then- at least 8, and they seemed very overcrowded in it. At least it sounds as if they have better access indoors nowadays- they didn't then- all sitting round the door a lot of the time.
'Rainforest' enclosures- yes, sometimes you need a great deal of imagination!
I certainly applaud Sydney for doing something positive yet fairly dramatic about their troop management- moving out 5 animals like this as a group is rather similar to when the whole group originally arrived from Apenheul. It is much kinder for Kibabu to retain a group like this, even if the two young ones leave in due course, he will still have his two female companions.
Commendable move.
Frees up space at Taronga too!
Frees up space at Taronga too!
Video of them now at Mogo: Gorilla family moves into Mogo Zoo - ABC South East NSW - Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Johari and Mbeli have moved up to Taronga Zoo.
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