london zoo has now mixed efi with bobby - today for example bobby spent the morning with efi and then with zaire after luch . when females are alone they spend time in the day gym . However zaire and efi are at the moment not getting along - zaire and efi have been pinching each other and pulling hair out of each other - but this might be what gorrilas do and soon a new female may be added to the group ! looking fowared to responsives
ZSL London Zoo Gorillas at London Zoo
- Thread starter orang09
- Start date
Effie is 14 and came from Leipzig Zoo. She has had two babies, the first was born in Berlin Zoo on 25 July 2002.
Bobby is 23 and is wild caught, he came from Rome, and had previously lived in a circus.
Zaire is also 23 and was born in Jersey Zoo.
The zoo intends to breed from Bobby and Effie.
Sorry I don't know any more.
Bobby is 23 and is wild caught, he came from Rome, and had previously lived in a circus.
Zaire is also 23 and was born in Jersey Zoo.
The zoo intends to breed from Bobby and Effie.
Sorry I don't know any more.
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Zaire is 33, she was born in 1974... She has one daughter 'Kamilah', born in 1987 at London (father Chessington 'Kumba') and now living in Belfast Zoo. She has also one grandson Kumbuka (Keke x Kamilah) born at Belfast in 1997, and currently in the Paignton male group.
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I thought Zaire's age didn't seem right. Thanks for putting things right.
Zaire is 33, she was born in 1974... She has one daughter 'Kamilah', born in 1987 at London (father Chessington 'Kumba') and now living in Belfast Zoo. She has also one grandson Kumbuka (Keke x Kamilah) born at Belfast in 1997, and currently in the Paignton male group.
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I thought Zaire's age didn't seem right. Thanks for putting things right.
London say Zaire is now 'too old to breed' That's a load of rubbish- several female gorillas e.g. 'Juju' at Howletts, have produced babies into their forties.... Salome at Bristol, only a year younger than Zaire, successfully gave birth this year after a course of fertility treatment. There's no reason (that I'm aware of) why Zaire couldn't breed again, with the right partner.
More to the point is whether Bongo/Bobby will mate with a female. He hasn't shown any inclination at Rome or Bristol in the past, though 'Effie' is certainly the best possibility for him so far.
Things aren't looking any better with the London zoo gorillas at present. A bit of 'blurb' on the website about giving them christmas stockings to open, indicates the three still can't be kept together- 'Zaire' will open her stocking alone on the outdoor island...
The three gorillas have been 'together' in the new Gorilla Kingdom for about nine months now but it seems the two females still won't live together, although either can be with the male separately.. Bobby and Effie are described as their 'breeding pair'(?) though I suspect this could be wishful thinking. I don't know why it's proving so difficult to get the two females to live together either. One possibility could be that Bobby is such a 'weak' male that he doesn't 'sort them out' if they fight.
But if this unsatisfactory situation continues they may have to reconsider their options....
The three gorillas have been 'together' in the new Gorilla Kingdom for about nine months now but it seems the two females still won't live together, although either can be with the male separately.. Bobby and Effie are described as their 'breeding pair'(?) though I suspect this could be wishful thinking. I don't know why it's proving so difficult to get the two females to live together either. One possibility could be that Bobby is such a 'weak' male that he doesn't 'sort them out' if they fight.
But if this unsatisfactory situation continues they may have to reconsider their options....
I`m very sorry to hear this. I hope they won`t move Effie again, she has been through enough trouble with her failed integration into the Leipzig gorilla group. She was too frisky against the male there, while she had no problems with the females.
3 gorillas seperated in 2 groups (ok, "group" is a bad word for one lone female!) sitting around without doing anything are a very unattractive sight. I think chimpanzees or bonobos would be a lot more attractive for visitors then these bored gorillas... a gorilla group can be interesting for the vsitors when there are a couple of babys in the group, but I have my doubts if this will happen in London any time soon. Not only Bobby is a problem, Effie hasn`t reared any of her offspring yet.
3 gorillas seperated in 2 groups (ok, "group" is a bad word for one lone female!) sitting around without doing anything are a very unattractive sight. I think chimpanzees or bonobos would be a lot more attractive for visitors then these bored gorillas... a gorilla group can be interesting for the vsitors when there are a couple of babys in the group, but I have my doubts if this will happen in London any time soon. Not only Bobby is a problem, Effie hasn`t reared any of her offspring yet.
Yes, a two/one situation like this isn't a group at all. 'Zaire' has certainly lived happily with other females in the past. They seem to think she is past breeding age(not true) and I'm sure they will persist with 'Effie' and 'Bobby' in the hope they will breed.
If it was me, I would get rid of 'Bobby' (he really has a rubbish track record..) bring in a new male and add another female or two. If Zaire is still a problem, then send her to Bristol Zoo, she likes their breeding male 'Jock' as she lived with him happily when he was at London- she might even breed again. (The only problem is Bristol's enclosure is a bit small indoors for a third female.)
Poor 'Zaire'- she has had no baby for many years, but repeated changes of males which must be very unsettling- she is now badly plucked though she never used to be- and currently has to live on her own for half of each day....
If it was me, I would get rid of 'Bobby' (he really has a rubbish track record..) bring in a new male and add another female or two. If Zaire is still a problem, then send her to Bristol Zoo, she likes their breeding male 'Jock' as she lived with him happily when he was at London- she might even breed again. (The only problem is Bristol's enclosure is a bit small indoors for a third female.)
Poor 'Zaire'- she has had no baby for many years, but repeated changes of males which must be very unsettling- she is now badly plucked though she never used to be- and currently has to live on her own for half of each day....
Here's a list of the male Gorillas which have lived at London Zoo since the death of the famous 'Guy'.
1. Kumba. born at Jersey. Lived as a juvenile at London with their homebred female 'Salome'- then sent to Chessington Zoo in exchange for their male- (he fathered two females at Chessingon but then sadly died while under anaesthetic for dental work)
2. Kumba(same name as 1.) Wild caught. Sent from Chessington in exhange to form a breeding group with two females 'Salome' and 'Zaire'. Bred with both females once only. 10 years later returned to chessington(still alive and fathered five more offspring there)
3. Jeremiah. from Bristol Zoo (born there but handreared). a non-breeding male. later sent to Belfast and died there.
4. Jomie. born at Howletts but ZSL's property as they owned his mother 'Lomie'. Obtained to replace the previous non-breeding male. Jomie was potentially a good male(mother-raised) but died before he could breed- from Hepatitis, presumably obtained at Port Lympne fro a Colobus monkey he killed.
5. Jock. replaced Jomie. Born in La Palmyre.France. Rather aggressive and would only live with one of the 3 females(Zaire) then at London. Exchanged with the male from Bristol. Now successful breeding male at Bristol Zoo.
6. Bongo(Bobby)- the current male. From Rome Zoo via Bristol. exchanged for the previous male 'Jock'. A small and rather gentle male. Has non-existent breeding record!
1. Kumba. born at Jersey. Lived as a juvenile at London with their homebred female 'Salome'- then sent to Chessington Zoo in exchange for their male- (he fathered two females at Chessingon but then sadly died while under anaesthetic for dental work)
2. Kumba(same name as 1.) Wild caught. Sent from Chessington in exhange to form a breeding group with two females 'Salome' and 'Zaire'. Bred with both females once only. 10 years later returned to chessington(still alive and fathered five more offspring there)
3. Jeremiah. from Bristol Zoo (born there but handreared). a non-breeding male. later sent to Belfast and died there.
4. Jomie. born at Howletts but ZSL's property as they owned his mother 'Lomie'. Obtained to replace the previous non-breeding male. Jomie was potentially a good male(mother-raised) but died before he could breed- from Hepatitis, presumably obtained at Port Lympne fro a Colobus monkey he killed.
5. Jock. replaced Jomie. Born in La Palmyre.France. Rather aggressive and would only live with one of the 3 females(Zaire) then at London. Exchanged with the male from Bristol. Now successful breeding male at Bristol Zoo.
6. Bongo(Bobby)- the current male. From Rome Zoo via Bristol. exchanged for the previous male 'Jock'. A small and rather gentle male. Has non-existent breeding record!
I don't know the exact reason, but it goes back a long way... I think John Aspinall used to be very critical of ZSL's methods generally, while ZSL authorities viewed him in turn as a sort of 'non establishment' person whose methods they frowned on, especially in the early 'private' era at Howletts when there were quite a lot of serious accidents and even escapes.
The gulf between them has remained wide, even since the son Damian took over the Aspinall parks. There have been animal movements between them, but only a few. It does seem ironic that London are struggling with this trio of apparently non-breeding gorillas while Aspinall's have so many in Kent. Howlett did send females to two zoos in France in the last year or so- but I don't think they'll oblige London!
I don't know the answer on the Colobus question..
I'd agree with that- a decent sized group of chimpanzees, or better still Bonobos, would suit that enclosure well, and make good use of the large outdoor area too. Twycross's Bonobo group are nearly always active and on the move both indoors and out and with plenty of interaction..
BUT, and unfortunately, I can't imagine London relinquishing the Gorillas for a more sensible option-even rare Bonobos- because Gorillas represent a big draw for them- even though once inside the Zoo the reality for visitors is three very inactive animals..
Time-out for another silverback ...?!!
Yes, they need a new silverback- and probably a couple more females too.
If they had kept their previous silverback 'Jock'-who is a much more impressive male anyway- then I expect both the current females at London could be breeding by now. But because he was aggressive they swapped him for the ex Rome male Bongo/Bobby at Bristol(who was doing no breeding) So London's loss was Bristol's gain as Jock is now a father x2 at Bristol and a happy male.
I expect ZSL will refuse to admit there is a problem with their so-called 'group' for a long time yet though....
If they had kept their previous silverback 'Jock'-who is a much more impressive male anyway- then I expect both the current females at London could be breeding by now. But because he was aggressive they swapped him for the ex Rome male Bongo/Bobby at Bristol(who was doing no breeding) So London's loss was Bristol's gain as Jock is now a father x2 at Bristol and a happy male.
I expect ZSL will refuse to admit there is a problem with their so-called 'group' for a long time yet though....
MARK
Well-Known Member
Maybe London zoo could send there females to Bristol for breeding to Jock, they have done this before years ago with Lomie, thats Guys ex.
I cant remember London zoo ever having a real Gorllia troop I am not sure why this is the case as they are a major zoo and Gorllias are a major drawcard, when I saw the Groups at Howetts and then saw what they had at London its just so different, I just get the feeling with London that there is just to much of the old thinking going on there.
I cant remember London zoo ever having a real Gorllia troop I am not sure why this is the case as they are a major zoo and Gorllias are a major drawcard, when I saw the Groups at Howetts and then saw what they had at London its just so different, I just get the feeling with London that there is just to much of the old thinking going on there.
1. Bristol's current indoor accomodation for the Gorillas is modern but quite small(its in part of the old Elephant house) They haven't really room to take even one extra female, and with both their females rearing babies I doubt if they'd want to add any disruption with other females even if London wanted to do it. One of the two present females at Bristol is Salome(the daughter from Lomie's first Bristol mating with their male Samson) The irony is the breeding success at Bristol now is due to 'Jock' who was London's male- Bristol certainly got the better end of that exchange....
2. I agree. London's gorilla situation has always been very poor- they have never had a cohesive breeding group but just a selection of mismatched, or non compatible animals and unsuccessful breeding males. The only time they held any promise was in the early 1980's when they got a trio together(adult male Kumba(chessington's) with the young females Zaire(ex Jersey) and Salome(london's first born gorilla) Both females bred once and had valuable females, and both reared their babies. Stupidly, London sent the babies to Belfast and the three adults never bred again... What London should have done is kept the two daughters with their mothers and change the male- they didn't do it and so lost the one chance they had of having a good cohesive group. Since then its been a constant catalogue of moves, deaths and segregated animals...