Guzoo animal farm

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I don't know where to start here.

I went to Guzoo today, just for a little while during my lunch hour. I didn't see any animals pacing. The tiger was stretched out watching two people replacing a fence. The camels were chewing their cud, the cougars were watching the world go by from their loft.

I also had another look at Devon's website. First time I've been there for a long time. I will go through her photos from 2007 before the weekend and I will try to take photographs of the same things when I am there at the weekend.

I know you think I'm crazy to support this place, but I know animals. I have lived and worked with animals my whole life. Animals are the most amazing organisms on the planet. Animals are good for people. Guzoo is good for people.

Twelve years ago I was seriously ill and spent 6 weeks in hospital. During the period between when I left the hospital and went back to work, life was very difficult for me. I had no money, no support, and I felt terrible both physically and mentally.

It was during this time that I went to Guzoo for the first time. After that first time I became a regular visitor. Both the animals, and Lynn, with his kindness, insight, sense of humour, and genuine love of people, helped me heal.

I have been asked why I didn't go to help at an animal sanctuary or rescue during this period, or why I didn't rescue an animal. I'll tell you.

I was broke. No work, no pay.

I lived very close to Guzoo yet could barely afford the gas and entrance fee

I was sick. Even if I hadn't had the financial problems, I was in no fit state to drive more than a few miles.

I was mentally unstable. Far from being able to rescue anything I was in dire need of being rescued myself.

Guzoo, and a cougar cub named Toby (who I spent many hours nursing) literally saved my life.

About 5 years ago I was talking to another zoo supporter, who told me the story of how she got involved with Guzoo. Her story was almost identical to mine.

So that's why I support Guzoo. It may not be pretty, but it's there.
 
That is a sad story, I'm glad you are better... It is excellent that a zoo helped "save your life"... It doesn't change what this place seems to be though...
 
animalpassions said:
Animals are good for people. Guzoo is good for people.
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this sentence really sums up my isues with this place. dont get me wrong im not regecting the fact that the zoo helped you in your time of need and i really am glad that you were able to recover from your illness but when ou start saying that a zoo is good for people and that animals are good for people we forget the more presing reason why zoos exist. zoos exist primarily for the benift of animals and the protection of genetic diversity ect and not for the entertainment of people who vist them. yes people enjoy going to zoos and do have fun visit them but thats not why their there, it a poisitive byproduct of their existance. so your jusification for Guzoo's exitance should not be about how good animals are for people or how good Guzoo is for people but how good it is for the animals and untill you can prove that it is expect to get a lot of critism from members of this forum.

well thats my 2 cents , take it or leave it but thats how i feel.
 
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torie said:
... zoos exist primarily for the benift of animals and the protection of genetic diversity ect and not for the entertainment of people who vist them. yes people enjoy going to zoos and do have fun visit them but thats not why their there, it a poisitive byproduct of their existance. ...
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Dear me, I wish that was remotely true :confused:
 
The tiger was stretched out watching two people replacing a fence.

This is probably the most encouraging part of your response . A fence is being replaced ( possibly a maintainance project long overdue ? )

I have also suffered from severe health issues and have been down on my luck
so I understand how being with animals have helped your recovery , but most ( if not all ) of us on this forum would put animal welfare in the zoo the TOP priority for any zoo .

Most of us have never been to Guzoo , so we can only feel for what we see , or read from members who have been there and are relatively "neutral" ( ie have no part of the zoo staff or FoZ )

We see some shocking video footage , even when we take descriptions by WSPA with a grain of salt .
We also study the photos that you provide us .

There have been some improvements , but your photos certainly dont inspire me to visit Guzoo

"Guzoo is good for people. "
perhaps so . Disneyland is probably also good for people . Whether a zoo or an animal collection is good for people is not very relavent to most of us folk who partake in this forum , despite our very diverse views on many other issues

But is Guzoo good for animals ? The past suggest otherwise . have another look at the videos .

Look , I do not want to criticise you . As I have said , I think there is potential for Guzoo to get itself out of the mud and work towards being something that could be called a decent zoo , provided it doesnt bite off more than it can chew if it exists on a shoestring budget . I have told you that before .
But soft sentiments about animals do nothing for them if they are not housed and cared for properly .
And you havent answered my last group of questions , which were designed to help me formulate a more accurate judgement of this zoo which appears to have given WSPA much ammunition .
Why do you think that they have attacked your zoo , and ignored Calgary Zoo ? I doubt very much that it has anything to do with gold plating . If you are really serious about the animals welfare and Guzoos "future " you really have an uphill battle , and sentiments about liking animals etc are of no benefit at all .
 
Disneyland may well be good for people, I wouldn't know.

So help me.

Someone asked earlier if I had been to other zoos to compare the conditions and I forgot to answer, I'm sorry. I haven't been to any other zoo in the last five years. However, I have been to Calgary zoo a number of times, I have been to Wildlife Discovery Park where I was the sole visitor yet I was totally ignored by the staff. I have been to Omega Park in Quebec, which I thought was awesome, and a small petting zoo in BC that I forget the name of, that I would say was on a par with Guzoo.

I have also been to Zurich zoo in Switzerland, which did not impress me at all, and a zoo in Hong Kong.

I have been to Dudley zoo, Cotswold Wildlife Park, Knaresborough zoo, (many years ago, I know it's been closed for a long time now), Edinburgh zoo, Whipsnade zoo, numerous times, and Regents Park zoo numerous times. I had the good fortune to do work experience at Regents Park zoo when I was at college. I have visited Stagsden Bird Gardens in Bedfordshire, many times, sadly, now closed and the birds dispersed.

I have also visited Woburn Safari Park numerous times, and have seen the Lions at Longleat.

I have also visited many small petting zoos and private animal collections on my travels over the years.

Forgive me if you think I am avoiding the issue here. I'm not, but I have other things to do. I will answer at length later.
 
I can't believe that you were not impressed by Zurich. The bear enclosure is amazing, the Masoala exhibit is fantastic, and the collection as a whole is one of the best in the world.
 
animalpassions said:
10,000 visitors a year can't be wrong
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Gasp!:eek: You're right! Just like millions of people can't be wrong! Therefore, smoking MUST be good for you...

I'm sorry, but it seems to me that you are only talking about how good GuZoo is for the visitors and yourself, and not seeing it from the animals' perspectives.
 
@Writhedhornbill: Well, the general husbandry conditions of elephants(the bull!), king penguins, shoebills, great apes and some other species in Zurich could be better-but nevertheless, I do support You opinion about the Zooh! being one of the better institutions worldwide, with the mentioned husbandries certainly going to be improved in the future. That can't be, no matter how personally, passionately and emotionally one argues, said about this particular Canadian "institution" in question, based on the impressions of the pictures and video(s). Maybe animalpassions visited the Zurich Zoo long ago-but even back at Hediger's time it had a pretty interesting collection, including oxpecker birds and much more. And Hediger was certainly interested in improving the husbandry conditions in aid of the well-being of the animals kept...

Like Toddy correctly pointed out-the number of people doing something certainly can't be equated with rightfulness. According to this logic, FGM, drug abuse, forced prostitution or thievery, to name a few, would be rightful, as thousands (or even millions) of people commit/attend them ever day...During the Roman Empire, thousands of Romans attended gory venationes-that surely didn't justify the terrible animal husbandry, treatment and "species consumption" back then. Neither does it today, concerning modern inappropriate animal husbandries...
 
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Contradiction ?/!

... Regardless of how Guzoo is seen by outsiders I will defend it and its owners with all my heart. ......

Isnt this something of a potential contradiction ?

You will defend Guzoo with all your heart Great ! Please push for MAJOR improvements . The animals depend on this , as they cannot speak on their own behalf .
I had the good fortune to do work experience at Regents Park zoo when I was at college.
So you have some idea about animal husbandry . Surely you should have realised that animals at Guzoo need more than your thoughts towards them

and you will defend its owners with all your heart . but hang on . Surely it must be zoo management/owners that had let the institution rot away to such poor standards that WSPA etc have a field day .
If you defend the owners , you obviously will not challenge them to make improvements to the zoo .

So whos side are you on ?

I am certainly not convinced that the zoo is good for its animals in its current state ( with the limited amount of material about the zoo ) and emotive language about how you love animals etc ..... WSPA members say the same sort of stuff without properly thought out hard evidence -- or do they have the hard evidence in the form of videos ?

If there is ANY truth in any of the "evidence' about the state of Guzoo and its animals , provided by WSPA , Zoowatch , PETA , Born Free or anyone else , you wont get much sympathy from myself ( I cant speak for others on this forum )

It is small private collections in poor condition that give zoos everywhere a "bad name "

Please push Zoo management for major improvements , if you care one iota for the animals at Guzoo
 
From what I see so far, Guzoo is a farm full of exotic animals. The owners themselves are farmers and animal people that are taking care of the animals as they know best. If this place wasnt open to the public, I doubt anyone would consider it a zoo.

However, the owners do take care of the animals as they know best. Now, while people can learn how to manage and care for animals from personal experience there are principles of zoo biology that one cannot learn on their own, especially if their background is of the care of domestic hoofstock, birds, and dogs/cats. This kind of experience is very valuable, but this knowledge falls short when it comes to wild carnivores and primates. These animals are not cared for in the same way as farm animals are.

Clearly members of this forum appear almost only interested in the zoo's infrastructure, which is very important. (I noticed, from pictures, that many of the enclosures lack adequate shelter and heat sources. Vegetation and props also appear to be non-existant...the wooden pilons props looked pretty cool...of course a wind-swept prairie doesnt seem to help with any situation) However the care of animals is more than just enclosures. Diet, Enrichment, Sanitation, and Medical/Mental Health are just as or more important than the enclosures.

Here are my questions regarding the animal's care that have not been brought up:

Who is Guzoo's consulting veterinarian and how often do they visit?
What kind of enrichment is used with the carnivores, birds, and primates?
Are there seperate/indoor or heated enclosures for some of the less cold tolerant species?
What is the makeup of the animals' diets and how are they fed? Carcasses are great, but how are they handled?
How often are the enclosures cleaned? I assume daily.
Are the volunteers/keepers trained and required to follow safety procedures (ie shifting animals, wearing protective gear)? - I've seen too many "sanctuaries" that require vegetarians, but allow volunteers to walk in with the animals and wear jewelry, long hair, and sandals.
Do the animals have protection from the wind?
Are the domestic dogs/cats cared for by the same veterinarian as the rest of the animals?
Do the owners take kindly to suggestions or do they feel threatened?

I have more questions, but this will do for now. Good luck with your fundraising and welcome to the forum.
 
It seems I wrote a reply yesterday morning then forgot to hit the post button.

NZ Jeremy said:
That is a sad story, I'm glad you are better... It is excellent that a zoo helped "save your life"... It doesn't change what this place seems to be though...
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I agree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by animalpassions View Post
Animals are good for people. Guzoo is good for people.[/quote]

this sentence really sums up my isues with this place. ............ Zoos exist primarily for the benift of animals and the protection of genetic diversity ect and not for the entertainment of people who vist them. ............... But how good it is for the animals and until you can prove that it is expect to get a lot of critism from members of this forum.

Well that's my 2 cents , take it or leave it but that's how I feel.
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I'll take it. I'm not afraid of being criticized. And I am well aware that this zoo leaves a lot to be desired.

However, I disagree that zoo's exist primarily for the benefit of animals.

While animal welfare should be paramount in every situation where animals are held in captivity (for whatever reason), to say that zoos exist for the benefit of animals is a little shortsighted.

Take away the gate receipts and most of the zoos in the world would have to close and the animals euthanized. Even the government funded zoos rely heavily on visitors for money.

Zoos/menageries/animal collections, whatever you like to call them, existed a long time before anyone thought of conservation/preservation of endangered species/genetic diversity etc. Something which was pioneered by Gerald Durrell in the 1950's.

While it is good that zoos have gone this route, let's not forget that the modern zoo plays an enormous role in society and has done for the last 150 or so years. In the days before television zoos were a primary source of entertainment, these days they have to compete with a large number of other attractions. I see zoos as a source of education. To see the sheer size and power of a large cat or bear is an experience that cannot be replicated by the Discovery channel.

Only by people seeing animals up close can they ever develop any respect for them, respect leads to interest, interest leads to understanding, understanding leads to protection. If zoos were closed to the public, where would the next generation of zookeepers, naturalists and zoologists come from? If organisations like peta and Zoocheck have their way animal centred careers will go the way of the dodo. Who will protect our animals then? Not everyone can afford to travel and see animals in the wild and if they could, it would no longer be wild.

All your arguments are people centred not animal centred. You see things from a human perspective.

That's the biggest problem with the ARA's, they look at everything from a human perspective and not from an animal's perspective. They assume animals have the same wants and needs, and the same thought processes, as humans, that's why this whole absurd notion of animal rights exists, because people have lost touch with animal's needs and wants.

One thing I have learned about animals in 50 years of sharing my life with them, is that so long as they have full bellies, a comfortable place to sleep, and freedom from pain and fear, animals don't give two hoots what something looks like, or what colour it is, or whether it has a pretty background, or who provides the food or what material the fence is made of. Digging animals will dig, climbing animals will climb, curious animals will search every corner of the pen.

Don't be led into thinking that animals care, because they don't.
 
animalpassions said:
All your arguments are people centred not animal centred. You see things from a human perspective.

That's the biggest problem with the ARA's, they look at everything from a human perspective and not from an animal's perspective. They assume animals have the same wants and needs, and the same thought processes, as humans, that's why this whole absurd notion of animal rights exists, because people have lost touch with animal's needs and wants.

One thing I have learned about animals in 50 years of sharing my life with them, is that so long as they have full bellies, a comfortable place to sleep, and freedom from pain and fear, animals don't give two hoots what something looks like, or what colour it is, or whether it has a pretty background, or who provides the food or what material the fence is made of. Digging animals will dig, climbing animals will climb, curious animals will search every corner of the pen.

Don't be led into thinking that animals care, because they don't.
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I assume by "the ARA's" you mean animal rights activists? In which case, you are sorely mistaken with the members of this board.

There is a large number of actual keepers on this board, who i'm pretty certain will know what animals need and will not see their argument through human eyes. Also, the vast majority of this board are regular zoo-visitors and know what animals need. They are smart enough to not base an argument like this, on a human perspective.

As for "One thing I have learned about animals in 50 years of sharing my life with them, is that so long as they have full bellies, a comfortable place to sleep, and freedom from pain and fear, animals don't give two hoots what something looks like...".

I'm sure you are wrong here. Complex animals such as primates, large carnivores and elephants need more care than standard farm animals. If you see the amount of money being pumped into modern zoos to often just meet basic needs for these species, you will realise that they need more than things you listed.

Elephants require large spaces and soft flooring or they will develop foot ailments, which will cause them great pain. Primates need to live in a group structure and have regular enrichment otherwise they will develop mental problems. Carnivores will often need regular stimulation as they need to hunt, so zoos will often substitute this need with placing food around the enclosure or providing other enrichment oppurtunities.

May I ask what animals you worked with at London Zoo? If it was any of the types of animal I just mentioned and the keepers told you that they are happy with just food and security, then i'd be shocked. Your quote may apply to some ungulates and lesser vertabrates, but more complex animals will need a better standard of care.

For instance, humans are considered the most complex animals, but you wouldn't be happy living in one small area, with just food and water, you would need some form of entertainment and the chance to move around a bit...
 
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animalpassions said:
However, I disagree that zoo's exist primarily for the benefit of animals.
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You just shot yourself in the foot mate!

I have respected your arguments and opinions up to this point, but this I can't accept. In the perfect world, there would be no need for zoos. But this isn't a perfect world, at zoos are here primarily to ensure the survival of endangered species, and as a secondary purpose to educate the visitors so that they themselves will become passionate about saving the planet's wildlife.

And yes, the animals DO care! Animals can get bored and stressed just like us. I'm not trying to say that they have all the feelings of a human being, but they are not stupid either. They need a certain quality in life to stay happy and content.

I will not bother with writing a loooooong reply, since CZJimmy has said most of what I would say in his post above.
 
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I've been an animal keeper for more that 20 years so I feel I can speak with some knowledge about some of these issues. The animals I've worked with over the years certainly do seem to care about their environment. Kangaroosget very agitated when someone works on a roof or up high near their exhibit. We had noisy school groups yesterday and one of the roos became so stressed we needed to give her a mild sedative to calm her down. Today the children were just as noisy but I had people she "trusts" in the vicinity and she remained fairly calm. When the roos are spooked they immediately go to the paddock and the barn--their safe area. If that gate is closed they remain highly agitated. Primates kept away from other primates can become increasingly neurotic. Giving them lots of enrichment may help alleviate some of the stress. Some primates do well looking in a mirror, others are threatened by that strange animal!
I also worry about the message that housing these animals in shoddy or sub-standard conditions sends to visitors, particularly children. It would seem to say that animals don't deserve anything better--they're just animals after all. Maybe it's OK to treat people the same way? They're not all that important, are they? It would seem to say that the owners can't be bothered to do the very best for the animals that are their livelihood and that it is OK to collect money from visitors to visit animal slums.
Enrichment doesn't have to be expensive or all that complex. Fresh browse, hiding food, making a paper mache ball to hide treats, straw or haw with treats hidden inside, edible flowers, pasta strung on a piece of grapevine, etc. Perhaps the friends of the zoo could help with some of these things to make the animals lives a bit more enjoyable??
 
I agree with most peoples posts but also agree partly with animal passions. Zoos are not primarily for the benefit of animals. Zoos use the statement that they are there for the benefit of the animals to defend themselfs but I do not think they need to do this. I believe the original, and still mostly now, zoos are for human entertainment.

There are also huge benefits for animals throught the education of people, captive breeding of endangered species and fundraising for habitat protection. I believe zoos are fooling themselfs if they state they are primarily for the benefit of animals which then plays into the hands of animals rights activists. If they were more honest and stated they are for the entertainment of people as well as the benefit of animals 99 % of the population would accept this and the 1% of animal rights activists could get a life.
 
@Monty: I agree with You in regard to zoos = entertainment. 99% of the visitors don't go to a zoo because they want to learn or because they want to support conservation work; they're going to the zoo because they look for harmless, enjoyable entertainment for the whole family.
However, if zoos admitted that their main purpose is entertainment, this would be grist on the mill of the anti-zoo lobby. After all, entertainment involving animals is no longer "PC" in western countries ( see the heated circus debate here in this forum)-although movies with animals (may they be CGI or not), equestrian sport, dog shows or pets are highly popular. Therefore, and due to animal trade regulations since CITES first came up, zoos have been forced to pick up conservation and education as a fig leaf of excuse for their raison d'être. Some zoos really take these tasks seriously and perform highly worthily; others (ab)use these words just for profitable window-dressing (like the breeding of the "endangered species of the White Tiger" or "Conservation Breeding Centers" for neutered chimps). The public affection forces the zoos to cover up their main purpose, i.e. the entertainment of people, in order to keep their right to exist. Nevertheless, the good thing is that due to this pressure, formerly reluctant zoos (or rather, their people in charge) are forced to do their part in terms of conservation and education-no matter how meager it is and how frustrated they grind their teeth. ;)

Yet even the entertainment character is nowadays not an excuse for inappropriate husbandry.
 
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Weeks ago I posted links earlier on this thread to extensive reviews of GuZoo Animal Farm that were from the years 2004 and 2007. Now I have a link to photos, and a review of all aspects of the park, that is dated May 2008. I am beginning to think that this so-called "animal sanctuary" is gradually becoming more and more shocking as the years go by. It's difficult to see any progress at this junk-pile of a zoo, as there is still rusty playground equipment in the black bear enclosure and ugly piles of feces in the rabbit hutches.

Guzoo Animal Farm-Guzoo '08

This next link is to a different roadside zoo in the Province of Alberta, called "Discovery Wildlife Park". This collection of imprisoned animals is perhaps just as famous as GuZoo, and comes with a kissing grizzly bear! Yes that's correct, those willing to pay the additional fee are actually licked on the face by an enormous grizzly. For a big zoo fan like myself, both GuZoo and Discovery are legendary here in Canada for scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of the ethics of maintaining captive wildlife.

http://www.zoocheck.com/Reports pdf's/Dougs07.pdf
 
Guzoo looks awful!

That is a shocking park and something needs to be done, especially with the Cougar, Macaque and Bobcats not having double door entry.

Why is there only a log to stop an animal digging it's way out of an enclosure?

I do appreciate that these people like their animals, but they need to take into account that the public need to feel secure and safe in their visit, and that the animals need to be living an exciting enriched life. At Guzoo there seems to be neither.....

Maybe they could stop keeping some of the larger species (like tigers) and focus on keeping small animals successfully...
 
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