Volume two arrived on thursday..sorry folks forget a lot of what you knew about ungulates!Using the taxonomic revisions of Colin Groves[and providing much mitochondrial or morphological evidence] the Bovidae [antelopes,cattle,sheep,goats.duikers etc]have increased by almost one hundred species!Hippos are included but are now thought to be more closely related to cetaceans than ungulates,the Musk Deer is not really a deer,there are 11 species of Klipspringer,6 of Chamois,12 Dik-diks,5 Gnus,18 of Hartebeest -I could go on and on.Of course this involves a rather different view of speciation and one which i feel will be generally accepted before long.Suffice it to say that it makes most of my ungulate library look rather dated.
Handbook of the Mammals of the World
- Thread starter Hix
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Well, we kinda knew that - thats why they have their own family, the Moschidae
Suffice it to say that it would make everyones ungulate library look rather dated, unless your name is Groves!
Lets hope he never decides to look at bats or rodents!
Hix
My copy was due on Thursday. No sign of it yet.
its interesting that HMW is so heavily (excessively in my opinion) into splitting when HBW by the same people is a lot more conservative
To Childonias-methinks the days of splitters and lumpers are gone.Much of the latest handbook provides evidential findings and states that in some cases there are good grounds for yet more species[well i suppose that DNA mapping is a comparatively new science].And of course the jury is still out on many taxa.I will say however, that no zoology book that ive acquired in the last 30 years has given me as much new information or shown me things i was previously unaware of..quite astounding,and ive certainly not read it properley yet!
Hello from Bulgaria,
Happy to be a part of this Great Forum!
I recieved HMWII 3 days ago and it is really exceptional.
I was expected some splits,but the book totally amaze me.
Actually I admire Groves's approach, based on hard work and DNA researches.
In HMWII there is only 1 species of Giraffa camelopardalis, they say: "0,5 - 6,9 % genetic diferences are below those required for the establishment of distinct species". It's interesting what late Grubb and Groves going to say, about this question in "Ungulate Taxonomy".
I'm sorry, that authors of Cervidae and Rhinocerotidae not so brave(Northern White is still subspecies, even mentiond in Family text, as a distinct species) Actually, Northern White Rhino can be a symbol of Phylogenetic Species Concept conservation role.
As you know, Groves's Primate Taxonomy(2001) was accepted in Primatology and today there is 418 species of primates(from about 250).
Yes, he can miss Bats and Rodents
The book is level up than HMW I. Some subspecies mentioned in pictures.I hoped citations mentioned in text, like Walker's 6th ed., but they are not.
Greetings, Konstantin
Happy to be a part of this Great Forum!
I recieved HMWII 3 days ago and it is really exceptional.
I was expected some splits,but the book totally amaze me.
Actually I admire Groves's approach, based on hard work and DNA researches.
In HMWII there is only 1 species of Giraffa camelopardalis, they say: "0,5 - 6,9 % genetic diferences are below those required for the establishment of distinct species". It's interesting what late Grubb and Groves going to say, about this question in "Ungulate Taxonomy".
I'm sorry, that authors of Cervidae and Rhinocerotidae not so brave(Northern White is still subspecies, even mentiond in Family text, as a distinct species) Actually, Northern White Rhino can be a symbol of Phylogenetic Species Concept conservation role.
As you know, Groves's Primate Taxonomy(2001) was accepted in Primatology and today there is 418 species of primates(from about 250).
Yes, he can miss Bats and Rodents
The book is level up than HMW I. Some subspecies mentioned in pictures.I hoped citations mentioned in text, like Walker's 6th ed., but they are not.
Greetings, Konstantin
I received my copy today . I can see me spending a lot of time browsing when I should be doing something more productive .
Lots of amazing photos - tree-climbing musk deer , forest hogs ( many races are not giant , being no bigger than bush pigs ) immediately struck me .
I look forward to many more hours of browsing .
Lots of amazing photos - tree-climbing musk deer , forest hogs ( many races are not giant , being no bigger than bush pigs ) immediately struck me .
I look forward to many more hours of browsing .
KCZooFan
Well-Known Member
I haven't bought it, but it seems the best place to purchase would be from the publisher. HMW | Lynx Edicions
I think if DNA-based taxonomy is going to lead to victory for the 'splitters' it is going to cause a massive, fundamental change in the way we try to conserve species. It is simply impossible for zoos and other ex-situ program's to provide space for 18 different hartebeest breeding program's, if it came to that. And realistically, if the average range of a species starts to decline as more species are split up, then the ability of in-situ conservation to cover many species will become even more compromised.
A mod may choose to split this question into its own thread, but... Is it time to start talking about preserving genera or sub-genera, rather than species or sub-species in many cases? This could mean not intervening to prevent regional variations of animals from becoming extinct, with the logic being that a very near equivalent from another region can be introduced at a later date to fill the vacant niche. It might also mean captive breeding groups that are knowingly and deliberately made up of hybrid populations, to try to include as many genes in the living population as possible.
Thoughts? I know it is not the ideal, but can people really see 18 hartebeests and 12 dik-diks making it through to 2100?
A mod may choose to split this question into its own thread, but... Is it time to start talking about preserving genera or sub-genera, rather than species or sub-species in many cases? This could mean not intervening to prevent regional variations of animals from becoming extinct, with the logic being that a very near equivalent from another region can be introduced at a later date to fill the vacant niche. It might also mean captive breeding groups that are knowingly and deliberately made up of hybrid populations, to try to include as many genes in the living population as possible.
Thoughts? I know it is not the ideal, but can people really see 18 hartebeests and 12 dik-diks making it through to 2100?
I think splitting is not going to happen for practical reasons - eg. when scientists realize this would create over 10,000 rodent species.
Zoos already try to have pure subspecies, and should continue to do so. Therefore they will be safe from taxonomic changes.
Zoos could also start caring about subspecies of animals which still have mixed lines - eg. african and asian elephants, common hippo, snow leopard, sun bear, siamang or bornean orangutan. At least, by learning what they have and preventing more mixing.
It is possible that many mixed zoo populations will, surprisingly, turn to be mostly pure subspecies. This is because export of wild animals in the past was coming from few selected localities - so likely only some subspecies were exported.
Zoos already try to have pure subspecies, and should continue to do so. Therefore they will be safe from taxonomic changes.
Zoos could also start caring about subspecies of animals which still have mixed lines - eg. african and asian elephants, common hippo, snow leopard, sun bear, siamang or bornean orangutan. At least, by learning what they have and preventing more mixing.
It is possible that many mixed zoo populations will, surprisingly, turn to be mostly pure subspecies. This is because export of wild animals in the past was coming from few selected localities - so likely only some subspecies were exported.
My copy arrived today and I've just spent the last hour and a half flipping through it. AS alluded to in previous posts there is a lot of new species, and some renaming of scientific names.
Like the first volume, the photos are absolutely brilliant and there's even a couple of shots of a Javan Rhino!
Now the long wait for Volume 3.....
Hix
Like the first volume, the photos are absolutely brilliant and there's even a couple of shots of a Javan Rhino!
Now the long wait for Volume 3.....
Hix
jackieo
Well-Known Member
Thank you! I purchased it this morning.
So not happy
for those not in the position to read or buy this book (me!!), here's a thread from Birdforum covering the Ungulate Taxonomy book that HMW based its splits on, with some pretty spot-on comments (IMO): Ungulate Taxonomy by Colin Groves and Peter Grubb - BirdForum