ZSL London Zoo Has the potential of the Casson been understated since the Elephants and Rhinos left

[Kalaw]

Why was the Casson closed?

Before it closed I seem to remember it had ferrets and armadillos.

It’s been reopened fairly recently, but there are no more ferrets and the armadillos are offshow, behind the bamboo fencing to the left of the entrance. Only the indoor areas for the red river hogs and babirusa can be seen, although there is another rather odd enclosure which is now empty, but I believe has held Pygmy hippos and even walrus over the years.

I have to disagree with the comments made by others that the Casson is big enough for rhinos, even just a pair of an individual, by modern standards, and I think it is better to focus on pigs, tapirs and the like, to be honest…

 

[Tim May]

.....although there is another rather odd enclosure which is now empty, but I believe has held Pygmy hippos and even walrus over the years.

The "rather odd enclosure" you refer to was originally built as the elephants' bathing pool. It was, indeed, used as temporary accommodation for the young (and sadly short-lived) walrus "Alice" in 1966/1967 and subsequently used for pygmy hippo.

 

[Tim May]

Wasn't it at the Casson that a distinguished German zoo director viewed it when it was about to open, looked up at the height of the building and said "Are you thinking perhaps your elephants can fly?"

Yes it was, as recorded by Gerald Durrell in "The Stationary Ark".

As Durrell writes it:

"What for is the roof so high? They think sometimes maybe the elephant is meaning to fly up at night and be roosting."

 

[Jurek7]

It is quite sad to read, how every few months Londoners start to fantasise that London Zoo could bring larger and more interesting animals. This zoo seems to be wasting its potential and genuine sympathy.

Comparing by Google Maps, Casson House is ca 1200m2 while the said Munich Zoo elephant house is ca 1540m2. The area of the Casson House with two unused grass lawns to the north and camels to the south is ca 12500m2 while the outdoor area at Munich is ca 11400m2. Munich zoo has also a separate house for Indian rhinos and Malayan tapirs (plus free-living sloths!) with the indoor area of 1280m2 and outdoors 7500m2.
Google Maps
Google Maps
So, space-wise, it is perfectly possible to keep animals much bigger than todays pigs.

 

[Rajang21]

is perfectly possible to keep animals much bigger than todays pigs.

Except, as has been explained, the stables/night quarters are simply not large enough for animals significantly bigger than those currently housed.

 

[Mugcake]

I don't have a problem with the current selection of mammals (the Babirusa in particular are quite interesting, although I cannot help but wish they would return the Red River Hogs to Whipsnade and bring back the Malayan Tapir), and I think the best way to maximise its potential would be to create something better indoors, running with the Southeast Asian theme of that area. Perhaps some free-flying birds, or some water monitors, or a fish tank, or some callitrichids.

I absolutely agree with this part in particular. Specifically, I really think that the Cassons would be a decent enclosure for Sumatran Rhinos, and if they replaced the Red River Hogs it could be a great start to the building becoming a Sumatran/Southeast Asian hub

They’re only barely larger than the pigs, and it would probably be two individuals (2.5 with a calf) instead of a small herd. It’s also a good tie into ZSL’s conservation work, and would allow them to advertise the return of rhinos (without having to put the larger unsuitable ones in).

The main thing keeping it from happening is the disastrous record Sumatran rhinos have in captivity. Out of 40 captive individuals (worldwide not just with ZSL) there was only one successful birth, and their captivity is now so heavily regulated/rare that it’s unlikely it could happen for some decades yet.

Still, I really hope it does, because the Cassons are kinda barebones at the minute. Inside access is usually cut off, and ever since they removed the camels and tapirs it’s not really carried any large mammals.

Obviously it was never properly suitable for elephants (at least not in healthy numbers), and hell will freeze over before they ever return there. But I do want to see something done with it again, because it’s really just the pig house now

 

[cornu aspersum]

But I do want to see something done with it again, because it’s really just the pig house now

I don't think there's anything wrong with it being a pig house. In fact, it might be helpful (if the Cassons were open more regularly) for educational materials to be displayed about pigs; the different types, general behaviour, comparing the babirusa and RRH, etc. I think it'd be very interesting if the zoo leans into giving suids a bigger focus.

 

[LittleRavenwood]

EAZA has a focus on endangered pig species atm, as their numbers are declining in the wild, so i agree suids need the focus right now

 

[Mugcake]

I don't think there's anything wrong with it being a pig house. In fact, it might be helpful (if the Cassons were open more regularly) for educational materials to be displayed about pigs; the different types, general behaviour, comparing the babirusa and RRH, etc. I think it'd be very interesting if the zoo leans into giving suids a bigger focus.

EAZA has a focus on endangered pig species atm, as their numbers are declining in the wild, so i agree suids need the focus right now

Well I’m glad then that they’re focusing on them, but of course it could definitely be a bit more informative than it currently is. With the RRH specifically, the exhibit doesn’t really focus on their status all too much (aside from the info sign). If the inside of the Cassons was properly opened and highlighted suid Conservation, it’d really make their addition there feel a lot more impactful.

 

[Daubentoniidae]

It would be nice if they were to get more bearded pigs again, but the two species they have are already both interesting and unique enough to spark interest for the general public I think.

 

[DesertRhino150]

I personally would love to see the Cassons repurposed as a space about ZSL's EDGE programme, with the outdoor paddocks used for medium-large mammal species, plus having a combination of some larger all-indoor displays for smaller mammals and birds and tanks for things like reptiles, amphibians and freshwater fishes.

Focusing just on species in the top 100 of each respective EDGE list that are reasonably available (as in, species already kept in Europe or planned to be) gives quite a few good options.

Perhaps the most difficult thing is deciding on what uses the outdoor paddocks. There are currently no wild pigs at all in the top 100 (although if the massive decline in wild babirusas is borne out by a change in Red List status, I could easily imagine that changing in the future). Quite a few of the available top 100 mammals are not possible because of size constraints such as Asian elephant (ranked 14 on the mammal EDGE list), African savannah elephant (15), black rhinoceros (37) and common hippopotamus (53), or because of the complexity required to change the house for them, such as the Sumatran and Bornean orangutans (31 and 32 respectively). I would say the three potential species that could work in these enclosures are the Malayan tapir (46 on the list, and would definitely be a welcome return), African wild ass (93) and okapi (72 on the list, and already kept on the Cotton Terraces). I don't know whether it would be practical to keep okapi in the red river hog enclosure, especially if it was planted more to make the space more secluded. They would then be facing the gorillas and make a little Congo section, while either the current babirusas or new tapirs could be on the other side near the tigers and continuing the Southeast Asian theme in that area. With the okapis here, it would also free up a couple of enclosures on the Cotton Terraces for something else.

Indoors, I would like there to be at least a couple of larger all-indoor enclosures for some smaller mammals and birds. Perhaps my top choice would be an enclosure for a pair of Chinese pangolins (8 on the mammal list), as they are becoming more common in European zoos and ZSL do a lot of conservation work with pangolins. The other option could be a mixed-species enclosure, such as a New Guinean cloud forest habitat for a mix of Western long beaked echidnas (21 on the mammal list, and subject of an EEP that intends to import animals to Europe) and Pesquet's parrots (52 on the bird list), an Australian woodland habitat mixing koalas (35 on the mammal list) and swift parrots (24 on the bird list) or a Southeast Asian jungle habitat for white-crowned hornbills (35 on the bird list) and Asian giant tortoises (7 on the chelonian list).

Finally, I would slot some tanks in for smaller creatures. Because I don't know just how suitable the Casson is to hosting complex life support systems that may be required for more sensitive species, I would probably pick some of the less picky and more commonly-kept species from the respective lists. Some potential examples could include the lemur leaf frog (29 on the amphibian list), Oman spiny-tailed lizard (65 on the lepidosaur list) and a mixed paludarium for Chinese water dragon (93 on the lepidosaur list) and redtail sharkminnow (23 on the ray-finned fish list).

I would additionally use statues or suspended models of animals simply too big or difficult to be kept within the building, such as elephants, cetaceans and large sharks or rays.

Taken altogether, I think this would make for a pretty good use of the Casson Pavilion.

 

[equidae]

I would say the three potential species that could work in these enclosures are the Malayan tapir (46 on the list, and would definitely be a welcome return), African wild ass (93) and okapi (72 on the list, and already kept on the Cotton Terraces).

Forget the okapi - from a welfare point of view, African wild ass are totally unsuitable for the Cassons’ outdoor enclosures. I wouldn’t even consider putting domestic horses there. Far too small, narrow, and risky with the moat. Nowhere near enough space for them to move even in the current babirusa enclosures.

It strikes me that the reason zoochatters can come up with so many ideas for the Cassons that ZSL seemingly cannot is because the welfare requirements of the animals is only taken into account by the latter…

 

[JoB198]

It strikes me that the reason zoochatters can come up with so many ideas for the Cassons that ZSL seemingly cannot is because the welfare requirements of the animals is only taken into account by the latter…

So this bit did make me giggle

 

[Mugcake]

It strikes me that the reason zoochatters can come up with so many ideas for the Cassons that ZSL seemingly cannot is because the welfare requirements of the animals is only taken into account by the latter…

Yeah I absolutely agree, and I include myself in that. I can’t claim to know 100% what the regulations and welfare standards are of the things I suggest here, I can only try and surmise based on zoo enclosures elsewhere and how similar species are kept.

Case in point, if the zoo did attempt to keep Sumatran rhinos at the Cassons, it would definitely have to be on the larger end where the babirusas are. Even then the space might not be enough, and both enclosures would have to be unified in order to give enough room.

I also recently tried to brainstorm a realistic way elephants could ever return there (which is never gonna happen, but I like to try and speculate because I’m a nerd).

First off, it would have to be Sumatran elephants (which are similarly critically endangered, but do have precedence in captivity). The smallest average height for those is 6ft 6in, and if ZSL specifically chose only the smaller individuals to house at LZ then they could technically give them viable space.

Even then though, there’s no way even united enclosures would offer enough room to keep them, both in regards to law and wellbeing. The workaround to that would be to augment the outside of the building to greatly increase the enclosure space, and you’d need to absorb as much of the lawn space around it as possible.

Although the Cassons are listed, technically filling in the dry moat with dirt and allowing the elephants to walk over where the original wall is (which would at best remain a dirt rise with the proper level of landscaping) is a way in which you can technically expand their space well beyond the scope of the Cassons.

You’d still need to leave it partly original at one end to allow for access into the house by the public, (presuming that would even be possible), and if access is kept you’d still need to convert most of the inside into added enclosure, with a small segment left aside for public (so essentially the total opposite of how the Cassons were originally designed).

There’s also technically no limit to how far they can push that expansion if they’re willing to get rid of stuff like the Children’s Zoo and Three Island Pond (and the small rotunda in front of the gift shop), although frankly I don’t think that’d go down well with anyone :T

But either way, it proves your point that the Cassons just isn’t suitable for anything particularly large, and ZSL would have to invest considerable expansion money (and plan around the Grade listed building) to bring back anything bigger than a tapir.

(there’s also an actual plan drafted up for expanding the elephant house from like 1999-2000, but I’ve never seen it and don’t think anybody outside ZSL has)

 

[cerperal]

Every time I walk past the Cassons, I'm staggered at how recently they held Malayan tapir - the land space, not to mention the water space, is simply nonexistent for them, and the indoor area goes without saying.

I think the use of the Cassons as a pig house is honestly a rather fitting one, and my only gripe is the loss of the bearded pigs and the fact the inside is almost entirely unused nowadays. RRHs are such a charismatic species that I love to see them snuffling about, and London have a nice group of them, but in an ideal world I'd much rather see a rarer, endangered species of suid - specifically bearded pigs - return over larger, more headline species. It's another unfortunate reality of London that such iconic buildings once held headline species meaning there will always be a comparison to the "good old days", but in the past enough that the dreadful husbandry (in modern standards of course) seem to be quite easily forgotten

 

[Mugcake]

It's another unfortunate reality of London that such iconic buildings once held headline species meaning there will always be a comparison to the "good old days", but in the past enough that the dreadful husbandry (in modern standards of course) seem to be quite easily forgotten

Yeah that’s essentially the crux of it. And like the Penguin Pool, it’s another example of something being made for a fairly specific purpose, which now seems almost out of place with how differently it is purposed in the present.

The Cassons was built to house the largest land animals on Earth, and that’s reflected in its design and placement. It’s meant to draw your attention and be a major pull, but for the average visitor it just doesn’t offer anything tantalising anymore (although I am nostalgic for the bearded pigs myself, and also the camels, which looked pretty cool in the elephant’s place).

I think a lot of valid ideas have been said, but there’s just not the money or really the necessity for ZSL to do anything major with the building. It’s categorically never going to be used for its original purpose (except in that over-expensive, un-justified expansion I thought up), and it’s being used less and less for animals which also tend to garner similar attention (aka tapirs).

I suppose by uniting the enclosures you could technically make it suitable again for tapir, but I agree that the water space leaves a lot to be desired. In fairness, the pools were made specifically for elephants to bathe in rather than swim, so it was never considered that they might need to add more pools in the future.

Either way, I’m glad ZSL haven’t stopped using it outright. Some of my best memories are in the elephant house (which I only ever visited after the elephants had left), and even without being able to go inside it remains a place of 2000s nostalgia to me

 

[Mugcake]

Orangutans are probably one of the few absent large mammals that I feel could one day return to London Zoo. There’s space to build an enclosure for them at some point in the future (with some creative restructuring), and they are tied pretty closely into ZSL’s conservation work.

Only current enclosure with the potential space to house them is the Cassons, but it would need some redevelopment. Their space outside and in would need to be covered with wire netting to keep them in their enclosure.

It could potentially be possible to house a male and female orang at either side, which would allow them to see each other without any premature contact (although a bridge system could be built overhead to unite each end when needed).

The tall size of the tower skylights inside could be used to its advantage by allowing them to climb up there, and depending on how much development the roof gets some more (off-show) space could be gained there too.

Just crossposting this over as it’s fairly relevant to this thread, and it’s an idea that partly solves the lack of floor space by expanding upwards

Still probably unlikely to happen given ZSL doesn’t currently hold any Orangs, but I figured it was a nice idea to share all the same

 

[GaryA]

If you filled in the moats and fenced up from the walls, you could have some pretty wonderful high enclosures for orangs or leopards, with the addition of plenty of climbing equipment, inside and out. Maybe even Asian Black Bear or something similar?

Even something like Sea Eagles, Vultures or Condors could have a spectacular flight cage on one side.

 

[Mugcake]

If you filled in the moats and fenced up from the walls, you could have some pretty wonderful enclosures for orangs or leopards, with the addition of plenty of climbing equipment, inside and out.

Yeah leopards would definitely be a decent fit too (especially considering they’re smaller even than the tigers), although Orangs specifically have the benefit of being extremely arboreal.

That’s why the height of the building (inside and out) would work so well for them, because it’s space they could easily reach if climbing equipment or branches were installed.

If they go high enough to reach the skylights (which are probably strong enough to contain them?) it could even be a good place for them to practice their wild nesting behaviour, especially as they’d then be out of sight to the public.

Of course I’m not an Orang expert so I don’t know 100% how suitable the space is comfort wise, but it’s the only larger animal I can think of that would be capable of making the most of what’s there

 

[Typhlonectes]

I personally would love to see the Cassons repurposed as a space about ZSL's EDGE programme, with the outdoor paddocks used for medium-large mammal species, plus having a combination of some larger all-indoor displays for smaller mammals and birds and tanks for things like reptiles, amphibians and freshwater fishes.

Focusing just on species in the top 100 of each respective EDGE list that are reasonably available (as in, species already kept in Europe or planned to be) gives quite a few good options.

Perhaps the most difficult thing is deciding on what uses the outdoor paddocks. There are currently no wild pigs at all in the top 100 (although if the massive decline in wild babirusas is borne out by a change in Red List status, I could easily imagine that changing in the future). Quite a few of the available top 100 mammals are not possible because of size constraints such as Asian elephant (ranked 14 on the mammal EDGE list), African savannah elephant (15), black rhinoceros (37) and common hippopotamus (53), or because of the complexity required to change the house for them, such as the Sumatran and Bornean orangutans (31 and 32 respectively). I would say the three potential species that could work in these enclosures are the Malayan tapir (46 on the list, and would definitely be a welcome return), African wild ass (93) and okapi (72 on the list, and already kept on the Cotton Terraces). I don't know whether it would be practical to keep okapi in the red river hog enclosure, especially if it was planted more to make the space more secluded. They would then be facing the gorillas and make a little Congo section, while either the current babirusas or new tapirs could be on the other side near the tigers and continuing the Southeast Asian theme in that area. With the okapis here, it would also free up a couple of enclosures on the Cotton Terraces for something else.

Indoors, I would like there to be at least a couple of larger all-indoor enclosures for some smaller mammals and birds. Perhaps my top choice would be an enclosure for a pair of Chinese pangolins (8 on the mammal list), as they are becoming more common in European zoos and ZSL do a lot of conservation work with pangolins. The other option could be a mixed-species enclosure, such as a New Guinean cloud forest habitat for a mix of Western long beaked echidnas (21 on the mammal list, and subject of an EEP that intends to import animals to Europe) and Pesquet's parrots (52 on the bird list), an Australian woodland habitat mixing koalas (35 on the mammal list) and swift parrots (24 on the bird list) or a Southeast Asian jungle habitat for white-crowned hornbills (35 on the bird list) and Asian giant tortoises (7 on the chelonian list).

Finally, I would slot some tanks in for smaller creatures. Because I don't know just how suitable the Casson is to hosting complex life support systems that may be required for more sensitive species, I would probably pick some of the less picky and more commonly-kept species from the respective lists. Some potential examples could include the lemur leaf frog (29 on the amphibian list), Oman spiny-tailed lizard (65 on the lepidosaur list) and a mixed paludarium for Chinese water dragon (93 on the lepidosaur list) and redtail sharkminnow (23 on the ray-finned fish list).

I would additionally use statues or suspended models of animals simply too big or difficult to be kept within the building, such as elephants, cetaceans and large sharks or rays.

Taken altogether, I think this would make for a pretty good use of the Casson Pavilion.

Wow I’m just finding out Hippos and Chinese Water Dragons are EDGE species! I think an EDGE exhibit is a great idea, I personally think there could be a great display made for Kagu