Have You Met People Who Disliked or Opposed Zoos?

Extremist then, truly unfortunate when you see all his awards on his site, it means he has somewhat of an impact or at least a voice.

Doxxing is a crime no matter what "virtue" you wash it with, a person has the right to not expose their information, especially in these times.

It is very sad to see extremists that might have something actually good to tell you fall into the abyss of rage and stoicness because they cannot articulate their thoughts in a normal or diplomatic way, while simultaneously pushing away the people who were willing to listen to them and follow their message.

They seem to not understand that there's strength in unity and weakness in solitude in a society where you need consensus to approve laws, if you remove people who were willing to listen to you or neutral to the topic, you'll eventually lose numbers and your actions will become more desperate in order to "show" something to someone that agreed with you if only you were respectful...

But the only things that matter seem to be noise and shock effect, and looking at people around me it may unfortunately be too good of an effect, a distraction from the message behind them and the important things in life.
 
I also live in Barcelona, and I dare say that, in this city, the number of people who "despise" zoos is even greater than the number of people who tolerate them. I'm not saying they love the zoos, I'm saying they tolerate the zoos. The number of people who truly love zoos here is insignificant. And I think it's because there's been a campaign over the years portraying zoos as something bad that involves animal abuse, even with fake videos. This particularly hurts me because, for me, the Barcelona Zoo was always one of the best in Spain, perhaps the most important and the only historic one truly at the level of major European zoos. However, years of campaigning against it have turned a magnificent zoo into a shadow of its former self, with outdated facilities and many necessary renovations that are never carried out. Obviously, all zoos need to be modernized, and Barcelona's too, but I think the pressure this zoo has received has often seriously harmed it and prevented its development. This is a vicious cycle, because if improvements aren't allowed, the visitor's impression gets worse and worse. Furthermore, any insignificant improvement here occurs over extremely long, almost eternal periods of time. It's very discouraging. The zoo staff cares deeply about the animals and their well-being, participating in countless conservation and educational projects, and it's painful to hear people who know nothing criticize the zoo out of ignorance, talking about freeing the animals (a sure death sentence) or taking them to sanctuaries (which don't exist).
 
aramacao said:
I also live in Barcelona, and I dare say that, in this city, the number of people who "despise" zoos is even greater than the number of people who tolerate them. I'm not saying they love the zoos, I'm saying they tolerate the zoos. The number of people who truly love zoos here is insignificant. And I think it's because there's been a campaign over the years portraying zoos as something bad that involves animal abuse, even with fake videos. This particularly hurts me because, for me, the Barcelona Zoo was always one of the best in Spain, perhaps the most important and the only historic one truly at the level of major European zoos. However, years of campaigning against it have turned a magnificent zoo into a shadow of its former self, with outdated facilities and many necessary renovations that are never carried out. Obviously, all zoos need to be modernized, and Barcelona's too, but I think the pressure this zoo has received has often seriously harmed it and prevented its development. This is a vicious cycle, because if improvements aren't allowed, the visitor's impression gets worse and worse. Furthermore, any insignificant improvement here occurs over extremely long, almost eternal periods of time. It's very discouraging. The zoo staff cares deeply about the animals and their well-being, participating in countless conservation and educational projects, and it's painful to hear people who know nothing criticize the zoo out of ignorance, talking about freeing the animals (a sure death sentence) or taking them to sanctuaries (which don't exist).
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I couldn't have said it better myself. Barcelona is a very sad example; ironically, the same people throwing tantrums and claiming "animal abuse" at everything are the exact cause why it has become so stagnant. A finalized Sahel area, an expanded tiger exhibit, the reptile house's reform... All have been vetoed by these scumbags. And the saddest thing is that I feel the zoo is bending over backwards trying to please the unpleasable, when the best thing that could have been done is to ignore this repulsive mob entirely.
 
@aramacao: Although I just have visited Zoo Barcelona a few times between 1984 and 2010 and have followed the development of it via medias and zoochat, I have the same impression. I allow myself to add a point, which may(!) have also an impact of the current situation: The missing of iconic animals, whom people identify theirselves (and with Zoo Barcelona in general). The dead of copito de nieve (for people who do not so much know the history of the zoo: the famous albino gorilla) was a huge loss. Every catalan family I know brought up this animal first when we were talking about Zoo Barcelona. And many told me, that they did not visit the zoo again after copito's dead. So together with what you wrote and with the loss/phase out of entire species like dolphins, rhinos (and maybe soon elephants?), Zoo Barcelonas future doesn't shine bright to me either.

By the way: Beside Copito de nieve, the animal I will always bring in context with Zoo Barcelona is Ulysses, the orca.
 
zoomaniac said:
@aramacao: Although I just have visited Zoo Barcelona a few times between 1984 and 2010 and have followed the development of it via medias and zoochat, I have the same impression. I allow myself to add a point, which may(!) have also an impact of the current situation: The missing of iconic animals, whom people identify theirselves (and with Zoo Barcelona in general). The dead of copito de nieve (for people who do not so much know the history of the zoo: the famous albino gorilla) was a huge loss. Every catalan family I know brought up this animal first when we were talking about Zoo Barcelona. And many told me, that they did not visit the zoo again after copito's dead. So together with what you wrote and with the loss/phase out of entire species like dolphins, rhinos (and maybe soon elephants?), Zoo Barcelonas future doesn't shine bright to me either.

By the way: Beside Copito de nieve, the animal I will always bring in context with Zoo Barcelona is Ulysses, the orca.
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I think the situation in Barcelona has a little to do with what you're saying, but beyond that, it's clear there's a significant external smear campaign attacking everything related to the zoo. I know many people who hate the zoo without ever having visited it. My girlfriend hadn't been to the zoo since she was little until one day she went with me and was pleasantly surprised (it's true that I tried to explain things to her in favor of the zoo that most people wouldn't be able to understand). The situation in Barcelona is very complex. And it's a shame, because I insist that the zoo staff works very hard for the welfare of the animals.
 
zoomaniac said:
@aramacao: Although I just have visited Zoo Barcelona a few times between 1984 and 2010 and have followed the development of it via medias and zoochat, I have the same impression. I allow myself to add a point, which may(!) have also an impact of the current situation: The missing of iconic animals, whom people identify theirselves (and with Zoo Barcelona in general). The dead of copito de nieve (for people who do not so much know the history of the zoo: the famous albino gorilla) was a huge loss. Every catalan family I know brought up this animal first when we were talking about Zoo Barcelona. And many told me, that they did not visit the zoo again after copito's dead. So together with what you wrote and with the loss/phase out of entire species like dolphins, rhinos (and maybe soon elephants?), Zoo Barcelonas future doesn't shine bright to me either.

By the way: Beside Copito de nieve, the animal I will always bring in context with Zoo Barcelona is Ulysses, the orca.
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Just goes to show how flaky the masses are, to turn on the zoo so aggressively after the crowd pleasers inevitably left...
 
@aramacao: That's okay. It is/was only an assumption/a guess, based on what I've been told or rather: the reaction/behaviour of the catalan people I met.
@JigerofLemuria: Yes, flaky or flighty or volatile - choose the word. Unfortunately, Zoo Barcelona missed to work against that (= keep the positive public opinion/draw the medias on their side) when those icons were still alive/there imo. What closes the circle with the slow transformation to a modern zoo and other problems @aramacao already wrote - again: in my opinion as an outsider!).
 
On Chinese social media, zoos are often criticized for only caring about making money and not about the animals' welfare, which frequently leads to online harassment against the zoos.
 
WuZiMing said:
On Chinese social media, zoos are often criticized for only caring about making money and not about the animals' welfare, which frequently leads to online harassment against the zoos.
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I’m not saying no one cares about the animals over there, or that all zoological institutions in China are bad, but… it’s not exactly a country known for having a strong commitment to animal welfare.
 
The Horse Boy said:
If zoos are doing that to rescue animals that are facing problems or dangerous situations in the wild, then I'm all for it.
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I meant other than rescues. Taking animals from the wild for the purpose of displaying them shouldn't be so frowned upon... It should be done responsibly (no long-lasting damage on wild populations, no unnecessary stress or suffering inflicted to the animals during capture) but it is a normal part of zoo life.

evilmonkey239 said:
I’m not saying no one cares about the animals over there, or that all zoological institutions in China are bad, but… it’s not exactly a country known for having a strong commitment to animal welfare.
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Let's not be dismissive of this person's input. Just because Chinese zoos are not the most committed to animal welfare doesn't mean there can't be public outcry.
 
Wanderer said:
I meant other than rescues. Taking animals from the wild for the purpose of displaying them shouldn't be so frowned upon... It should be done responsibly (no long-lasting damage on wild populations, no unnecessary stress or suffering inflicted to the animals during capture) but it is a normal part of zoo life.



Let's not be dismissive of this person's input. Just because Chinese zoos are not the most committed to animal welfare doesn't mean there can't be public outcry.
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I wasn’t intending to sound dismissive, I guess I just wanted to share my opinion that in a country like China, said outcry against zoos is probably more likely to be justified than in somewhere like the US (which isn’t to say it always will be over there, or that it never is over here, but speaking generally).
 
WuZiMing said:
On Chinese social media, zoos are often criticized for only caring about making money and not about the animals' welfare, which frequently leads to online harassment against the zoos.
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Poor conditions or animal welfare is always a fair critique, but the amount of zoos that "make money" has to be exceedingly small. Most are lucky to scrape by and that would largely be due to
donations over actual revenue.
 
I have noticed that not everyone who is not knowledgeable about wildlife is always going to have a bad opinion on certified zoos. I know some folks like that, like my mom for instance, as she really discerns their plusses. Watching wildlife documentaries or having directly experienced these animals in their habitats in the wild, like say the African grasslands, won't always mean you have the mindset that zoos are bad and we should pull the plug on them places for good. As a matter of fact, I'd say there can even be a considerable amount of anti zoo people who can have abundant wildlife knowledge including unfamiliar animals like a kudu okapi or cormorant.
 
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evilmonkey239 said:
I wasn’t intending to sound dismissive, I guess I just wanted to share my opinion that in a country like China, said outcry against zoos is probably more likely to be justified than in somewhere like the US (which isn’t to say it always will be over there, or that it never is over here, but speaking generally).
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I think that putting the USA as a counterpart to China isn't the best choice. While it's true that the USA has some of the best zoos and related institutions in the world, it also has hundreds of private roadside zoos that are purely commercial and offer poor living conditions for the animals. I think perhaps Europe in general is the best counterpart, since these types of places are far rarer and are disappearing.
 
Daktari JG said:
Poor conditions or animal welfare is always a fair critique, but the amount of zoos that "make money" has to be exceedingly small. Most are lucky to scrape by and that would largely be due to
donations over actual revenue.
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Zoos in mainland China generally find it difficult to receive donations, but there are also many with strong profitability, mainly through selling cultural and creative products.
 
evilmonkey239 said:
I’m not saying no one cares about the animals over there, or that all zoological institutions in China are bad, but… it’s not exactly a country known for having a strong commitment to animal welfare.
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Mainland China may indeed lag behind developed countries in terms of animal welfare, but compared to twenty years ago, there has been noticeable improvement. Hopefully, it will continue to get better in the future
 
One example springs to mind.
The first one was back in late last fall when I attended an event to visit a botanical garden very close to my house as part of an event called Best Buddies (a program with volutneer friendship opportunities etc. with special needs individuals and neurotypicals) with a male friend of mind and a young woman who helped coordinate events under it. As she I and my friend chatted and chatted, she told us that she will soon be moving back to where she's from up the DC/Baltimore area. We somewhat agreed to keep in touch and remain buds with the potential of seeing eachother up there, I talked about perhaps visiting either Smithsonian or Baltimore zoos as they have excellent habitats and both house elephants with the suitable facilities and herds. She then said that she actually doesn't go to zoos because she found it outlandish to see animals in areas where they're not supposed to be found. She wasn't downright anti but still of a skeptic to them. I told her that modern zoos go greath lengths to give wildlife exemplary care and build roomy enclosures to resemble their natural habitats as much as possible as part of the conversation, she wasn't wary of these factors so she seemed receptive enough to be easily converted into a good zoo lover. She might have not even known their conservation and educational motives which are today's goal of AZA zoos. I was still a bit upset from that and fretted that all zoos might get banned or lose popularity as I often do when dealing with these mindsets lol
 
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