Taronga Zoo heman has died
- Thread starter jay
- Start date
i carnt find any, i have been searching for ages, i thought there was one singlely , but thts illegal so maybe not
there was reports a while back, that taronga should use it's exhibit for retiring circus animals, well in these reports it said 6 in nsw
arna and gigi,
and all i can think of is siam bimbo and sabu, who i think could have been still owned by bullens.
even so tht still leaves 1. or 4 not including oz zoo's
i have searched web for ages, and only got arna and gigi, will do some more searches now
there was reports a while back, that taronga should use it's exhibit for retiring circus animals, well in these reports it said 6 in nsw
arna and gigi,
and all i can think of is siam bimbo and sabu, who i think could have been still owned by bullens.
even so tht still leaves 1. or 4 not including oz zoo's
i have searched web for ages, and only got arna and gigi, will do some more searches now
ok heres some facts
bambi- arnas partner for many years died 10 yrs ago in '96
arna and gigi were 46 in '03, therefore 46 now
Circus incidents involving elephants
OCTOBER 1961 – Strathmore, VIC
An 18 year old elephant, Topsy, panicked at Bullens Circus and ran onto railway tracks where she was hit by a train and killed.
MARCH 1974 – Heidelberg VIC
Ashton’s elephant Abu, killed her first victim, Douglas Lang-Smith who was a driver/attendant with the circus.
DECEMBER 1978
Sole Brothers’ elephant, Lana, knocked out a circus hand before plunging into a creek where she remained for over an hour.
AUGUST 1980 – Ingham QLD
Ashtons’ elephant Abu, escaped from the circus and ran into a cane field. Two years later, to the day, she repeated her escapade in the same cane field.
DECEMBER 1981
Sole Brothers’ elephant, Tara fell from a semi trailer, sustaining a gash to the head above the right eye.
DATE UNKNOWN
Ashton’s elephant Mother, fell down a disused mine shaft, hurting a molar which subsequently became infected and she died.
DATE UNKNOWN
Cardie an elephant used by a circus was shot after knocking down her trainer and crushing him against the wall of a truck.
DATE UNKNOWN
Sole Brothers’ elephants Betty and Jodi have killed a journalist and a spectator respectively.
FEBRUARY 1983
2 Elephants belonging to Sole Brothers’ Circus were killed in a road accident.
1983
Ashtons’ elephant Abu killed her handler Debbie Wirth by crushing her with her trunk. Debbie was Abu’s second victim.
SEPTEMBER 1987 – Gunnedah NSW
Ashton’s elephant Abu killed her third victim, George Littlejohn, who was a horse groom with the circus.
AUGUST 5 1998 – Dumolly VIC
Perry Brothers’ elephant Ginny, fled into nearby bushland after being frightened by a passing train. She was not located and recaptured until the following day.
SEPTEMBER 1999 – Narre Warren
During a performance one of the elephants used by Ashtons’ Circus, Abu fell toward the audience after being pushed off her pedestal by another elephant, Tanya.
A young girl is hurt whilst sitting in the audience at the show when Abu, landed on her. She was taken to a medical centre for x rays on her swollen arm
List of incidents involving circus animals in Australia (incomplete)
im sorry this is depressing, but gives an idea to whats happened, and what elephants are/where around
bambi- arnas partner for many years died 10 yrs ago in '96
arna and gigi were 46 in '03, therefore 46 now
Circus incidents involving elephants
OCTOBER 1961 – Strathmore, VIC
An 18 year old elephant, Topsy, panicked at Bullens Circus and ran onto railway tracks where she was hit by a train and killed.
MARCH 1974 – Heidelberg VIC
Ashton’s elephant Abu, killed her first victim, Douglas Lang-Smith who was a driver/attendant with the circus.
DECEMBER 1978
Sole Brothers’ elephant, Lana, knocked out a circus hand before plunging into a creek where she remained for over an hour.
AUGUST 1980 – Ingham QLD
Ashtons’ elephant Abu, escaped from the circus and ran into a cane field. Two years later, to the day, she repeated her escapade in the same cane field.
DECEMBER 1981
Sole Brothers’ elephant, Tara fell from a semi trailer, sustaining a gash to the head above the right eye.
DATE UNKNOWN
Ashton’s elephant Mother, fell down a disused mine shaft, hurting a molar which subsequently became infected and she died.
DATE UNKNOWN
Cardie an elephant used by a circus was shot after knocking down her trainer and crushing him against the wall of a truck.
DATE UNKNOWN
Sole Brothers’ elephants Betty and Jodi have killed a journalist and a spectator respectively.
FEBRUARY 1983
2 Elephants belonging to Sole Brothers’ Circus were killed in a road accident.
1983
Ashtons’ elephant Abu killed her handler Debbie Wirth by crushing her with her trunk. Debbie was Abu’s second victim.
SEPTEMBER 1987 – Gunnedah NSW
Ashton’s elephant Abu killed her third victim, George Littlejohn, who was a horse groom with the circus.
AUGUST 5 1998 – Dumolly VIC
Perry Brothers’ elephant Ginny, fled into nearby bushland after being frightened by a passing train. She was not located and recaptured until the following day.
SEPTEMBER 1999 – Narre Warren
During a performance one of the elephants used by Ashtons’ Circus, Abu fell toward the audience after being pushed off her pedestal by another elephant, Tanya.
A young girl is hurt whilst sitting in the audience at the show when Abu, landed on her. She was taken to a medical centre for x rays on her swollen arm
List of incidents involving circus animals in Australia (incomplete)
im sorry this is depressing, but gives an idea to whats happened, and what elephants are/where around
It is interesting that one elephant in a circus has killed 3 people in seperate incidents. How many victems before a circus would retire an elephant away from human contact. I supose they were the major circus drawcard and a big investment that the operators did not want to do without them.
How many people are killed in Aisian counteries where elephants are common tourist attractions or beasts of burden and there are far fewer safty precortions.
I am suprised by the number of elephants killed while in use at circuses.
How many people are killed in Aisian counteries where elephants are common tourist attractions or beasts of burden and there are far fewer safty precortions.
I am suprised by the number of elephants killed while in use at circuses.
hemans death
im not an elephant expert, but i would claim to know the simple facts...that female elephants live in mixed sex, multi-generational herds and males live more or less by themselves.
so we have Burma, an OLD elephant who has already been living in an abnormal social situation now for nearly a decade since Renee died in 1998. if the zoo couldnt find other elephants for her to be in a herd situation already, i dont see the rush now. i mean, from a welfare point of view, of course it would be nice to integrate her with other animals. but...
1-she is dangerous. she came to taronga from a circus because she attacked her handler, so as you guys have already said, she would have to go to a protected contact facility.
2-as all herds are currently managed with free-contact, this would mean Burma would have to be managed seperately from the other elephants. this would be a major husbandary burden.
3-would Burma's presence be of benefit to the other elephants? from a behavioural point of view and training?
4-if she went to one of or mainstream zoos, shouldnt we be viewing her as a potential carrier of the herpes virus? could she compromise the breeding program?
5-what about the stress to Burma during transportation.
6-finally, there is her age. at such a great age, can we justify moving this animal to another facility with all its inherent problems when she too, could just drop dead tomorrow?
i think its best if she is left where she is for now. if the circus animals could be obtained, then im all for it, but i think she is better off in 'retirement'...
im not an elephant expert, but i would claim to know the simple facts...that female elephants live in mixed sex, multi-generational herds and males live more or less by themselves.
so we have Burma, an OLD elephant who has already been living in an abnormal social situation now for nearly a decade since Renee died in 1998. if the zoo couldnt find other elephants for her to be in a herd situation already, i dont see the rush now. i mean, from a welfare point of view, of course it would be nice to integrate her with other animals. but...
1-she is dangerous. she came to taronga from a circus because she attacked her handler, so as you guys have already said, she would have to go to a protected contact facility.
2-as all herds are currently managed with free-contact, this would mean Burma would have to be managed seperately from the other elephants. this would be a major husbandary burden.
3-would Burma's presence be of benefit to the other elephants? from a behavioural point of view and training?
4-if she went to one of or mainstream zoos, shouldnt we be viewing her as a potential carrier of the herpes virus? could she compromise the breeding program?
5-what about the stress to Burma during transportation.
6-finally, there is her age. at such a great age, can we justify moving this animal to another facility with all its inherent problems when she too, could just drop dead tomorrow?
i think its best if she is left where she is for now. if the circus animals could be obtained, then im all for it, but i think she is better off in 'retirement'...
i know. its not really an ideal situation is it, but the reality is, why risk the rest of the breeding program which has already cost a bomb for an elephant who might only last a few months. there wouldnt even be a guarantee she would even integrate with other animals.
actually, the only real option would be to send her to australia zoo, where she could stay with the old elephants there. but again, new problems...
would she be locked away from her new herd everytime they were taken out of the exhibit? australia zoo lets its elephants out into a big paddock every night for exercise. they walk them there. would burma be walked there too? compromising staff safety.
and next, the carrier risk. what if burma is a carrier of the herpes virus by some miracle event? and what if she was to outlive the other elephants at australia zoo? and australia zoo got some more asians to start a program there...would she represent a risk to that program.
im thinking hipotheticals here, but im really in favour of her staying at western plains. there really is no reason for her going anywhere, and at this stage zoo scientists dont know enough about the herpes disease to say 100% if it can only be transmitted by direct contact, or can it be transmitted indirectly?
actually, the only real option would be to send her to australia zoo, where she could stay with the old elephants there. but again, new problems...
would she be locked away from her new herd everytime they were taken out of the exhibit? australia zoo lets its elephants out into a big paddock every night for exercise. they walk them there. would burma be walked there too? compromising staff safety.
and next, the carrier risk. what if burma is a carrier of the herpes virus by some miracle event? and what if she was to outlive the other elephants at australia zoo? and australia zoo got some more asians to start a program there...would she represent a risk to that program.
im thinking hipotheticals here, but im really in favour of her staying at western plains. there really is no reason for her going anywhere, and at this stage zoo scientists dont know enough about the herpes disease to say 100% if it can only be transmitted by direct contact, or can it be transmitted indirectly?
id say she would, but shed need to go through months of crate training again and quarantine too. and at the end of the day, have yo any idea how much it cos to get heman and burma out to dubbo? quite alot of $$$$$$.
i could just see terri and ugly little bindi now being trampled to death by their new elephant burma, the rogue from the 'outback'.
i could just see terri and ugly little bindi now being trampled to death by their new elephant burma, the rogue from the 'outback'.
yep. and i dont think the zoo would even bother to argue that she is a drawcard either. western plains is known for its africans, with the asians more of a sideline. i would like to see a breeding program for africans started, only for display value.
as commited to its elephants as taronga is, im glad too they didnt bother going to all the expense of rebuilding the exhibit to keep heman. what a waste of money that would have been.
i guess now theres a bit more pressure on Gung's broad shoulders...
as commited to its elephants as taronga is, im glad too they didnt bother going to all the expense of rebuilding the exhibit to keep heman. what a waste of money that would have been.
i guess now theres a bit more pressure on Gung's broad shoulders...
glyn,
potentially your right. many of the issues you bring up may be very real and difficult obsticles.
but my point has always been this - any obsticles taronga/dubbo face with managing their elephants were indeed created by themselves.
you can say that taronga's exhibit it usuitable for an agressive elephant - but they built it that way. what if one of their current thai elephants develops agressive behaviour in a few years time? what then?
i dare say, the unsutability of the new taronga exhibit is a product of the fact that they initially never had any intention of housing a male elephant at all!! thus they never built the exhibit to be suitable to holding potentially dangerous elephants seperate from potentailly tame ones...
burma may indeed now carry a virus that could compromise the welfare of any infant elephants she may have contact with - but the zoo management exposed her to those risks.
and as for any guesses at how burma may or may not integrate with the other elephants, or the effect she may have on their behaviour - you just don't know and its not really worth hypothesising about - because the zoo never did, nor had any intention of trying...
surely the zoo realised that there was a 50/50 chance that it would find itself with the problem of just one lone female asian elephant one day....
my feelings have always been that burma in particular has gotten a pretty rough deal from taronga. i don't think they have been particuarly fair to her.
i don't think its very accurate to reflect burmas relationship with humans to make judgements on how she would interact with other elephants.
many of the management issues that would arise if burma had stayed at taronga would be exactly the same if she went to australia zoo, and yet australia zoo, unlike taronga has no obligation to burma whatsoever.
indeed your right, maybe it is too much to expect that burma now may ever have companionship from her own kind (african elephants are not the same as asian elephants), but to me its demonstrates tarongas priorities, that they put themselves in a situation where they couldn't provide burma, even in the last years of her life, with th ebenifit of social interaction.
funny enough melboure also had a pair of elephants and they built an exhibit that could cater to pretty much any scenario...
potentially your right. many of the issues you bring up may be very real and difficult obsticles.
but my point has always been this - any obsticles taronga/dubbo face with managing their elephants were indeed created by themselves.
you can say that taronga's exhibit it usuitable for an agressive elephant - but they built it that way. what if one of their current thai elephants develops agressive behaviour in a few years time? what then?
i dare say, the unsutability of the new taronga exhibit is a product of the fact that they initially never had any intention of housing a male elephant at all!! thus they never built the exhibit to be suitable to holding potentially dangerous elephants seperate from potentailly tame ones...
burma may indeed now carry a virus that could compromise the welfare of any infant elephants she may have contact with - but the zoo management exposed her to those risks.
and as for any guesses at how burma may or may not integrate with the other elephants, or the effect she may have on their behaviour - you just don't know and its not really worth hypothesising about - because the zoo never did, nor had any intention of trying...
surely the zoo realised that there was a 50/50 chance that it would find itself with the problem of just one lone female asian elephant one day....
my feelings have always been that burma in particular has gotten a pretty rough deal from taronga. i don't think they have been particuarly fair to her.
i don't think its very accurate to reflect burmas relationship with humans to make judgements on how she would interact with other elephants.
many of the management issues that would arise if burma had stayed at taronga would be exactly the same if she went to australia zoo, and yet australia zoo, unlike taronga has no obligation to burma whatsoever.
indeed your right, maybe it is too much to expect that burma now may ever have companionship from her own kind (african elephants are not the same as asian elephants), but to me its demonstrates tarongas priorities, that they put themselves in a situation where they couldn't provide burma, even in the last years of her life, with th ebenifit of social interaction.
funny enough melboure also had a pair of elephants and they built an exhibit that could cater to pretty much any scenario...
Dear sir,
Rest assured Burma is receiving lots of extra care and support at this sad time as the wellbeing and welfare of the remarkable creatures in our care is always our first concern.
Both Elephants in the wild and elephants in zoos can live in different social contexts, just like humans. Heman and Burma both appeared to gain pleasure from the company provided by the other.
Burma's future and long-term well-being will be reviewed in the context of the regional elephant program in the next few weeks.
Thank you again for your support and concern at this time.
Regards
Mark
taronga pr
Rest assured Burma is receiving lots of extra care and support at this sad time as the wellbeing and welfare of the remarkable creatures in our care is always our first concern.
Both Elephants in the wild and elephants in zoos can live in different social contexts, just like humans. Heman and Burma both appeared to gain pleasure from the company provided by the other.
Burma's future and long-term well-being will be reviewed in the context of the regional elephant program in the next few weeks.
Thank you again for your support and concern at this time.
Regards
Mark
taronga pr
Last edited by a moderator: