Hi everyone!

D

Devonvm

Active Member
Hi everybody,

I found this site because my site, Guzoo Animal Farm-Definition of a Roadside Zoo, was linked to from one of the threads. I'm not here to flame you or spam you, and unlike you've been told, I am NOT against all zoos. I realize that modern zoos have a place in conservation and are a valuable resource. I am merely against zoos that are not in the business for the benefit of the animals, or at the very least, do not have the animals well-being as their top priority. Although I would consider myself an animal rights activist, I realize not everything is written in black and white and that I must judge each situation on an individual basis.

I joined this forum in hopes of talking with people that are not inherently against zoos or steadfast in supporting even the worst of them. I want to talk to people that love zoos and have the interests of the animals as their main concern. What I read of this forum impressed me, particularly in the Guzoo Animal Farm thread. So often, fellow zoo keepers immediately jump to the defense of this zoo merely due to the fact that they are fellow zoo keepers, without looking at the facts. You asked questions that I have been asking for years, but have yet to receive answers. I am eagerly awaiting the replies of AnimalPassions.

I have been "campaigning" against Alberta's roadside zoos for years but have few issues with our two accredited zoos, the edmonton valley zoo and the calgary zoo. Of course, both could use some changes, but they put a lot of effort into enriching the lives of the animals and have been making improvements to their facilities steadily, unlike Guzoo. Even Discovery Wildlife Park, Alberta's other substandard private facility has been improving lately. Guzoo has merely grown in size, not in quality.

I apologize in advance if I am not welcome here....I am interested in hearing your opinions and learning more about zoos in general.
 
@Devonvm: Welcome to the forum! The various threads of information here at ZooBeat contain a vast wealth of information and resources, and I have certainly learned a lot since I joined 6 months ago. How old are you? Do you remember the Polar Park just outside of Edmonton, as it used to be called the Alberta Game Farm but closed in the early nineties. There is a thread that I started about it, and I'm curious if you can answer any questions in regards to the ex-owner Al Oeming.

As you already know I was one of the main contributors to the infamous "GuZoo" thread, and I already posted several links to reports that illustrate how inherently horrible GuZoo is for its captive wildlife. I was born in Edmonton and don't think too highly of the Valley Zoo either, but the Calgary Zoo is indeed a quality institution.
 
Hi Devonvm - welcome to this forum!

You will find lots of different opinions here (and lots of interesting information.)

When Florence Nightingale found the terrible state of hospitals in the Crimea during the war in the 19th century she didn't say, "these hospitals are appalling; we must close them down", she said, "these hospitals are appalling; we must make them better!"

That's my philosophy of zoos.
 
Welcome to the forum
I look forward to having logical discussions with you , and learning more about
Guzoo . I generally like zoos , but if there is anything to suggest that the animals are not looked after properly , I will not support that particular zoo .

I find it difficult to follow peoples lines of " the chimps look so sad " or " the zoo lacks soul " or "people are good for the zoo " , ( and I am not saying that you have said any of these things -- they are general examples )
But I am all for certification of zoos , and standards for zoos to comply , etc

If you read my posts , I get quite annoyed with my local zoo , even though it has a good record in regards to breeding primates . One bad apple can send rot through the others .
I agree with Aras philosophy -- lets work to make mediocre zoos better !
 
devonvm-is a 19 year old kid who protests all zoos. She is a regular protestor at the Edmonton zoo. She also belongs to the animal liberation front. Don't take anything she says seriously.

Snowleopard-I spoke to someone about Al Oeming 2 days ago.

Welcome to the world of the animal rights extremists boys.
 
I have never protested at the Edmonton Zoo, nor have I ever protested at any zoo...

I am also not a member nor am I a supporter of the Animal Liberation Front.

It's not as if they even have a written membership, that would be pretty stupid of them, don't you think?

I am not an extremist by any means.
 
Also, Nigel, I agree. I try not to anthropomorphize situations as best I can. I realize that animals are not humans and that they do not think the same way we do. I do my best to judge a situation simply in regards to how the animals are kept, and what their needs are in captivity. The state of their Food/Water, cleanliness, enrichment, enclosure design and complexity, temperature, humidity level, social groupings, etc. I realize I will never be taken seriously if my complaints are along the lines of "they look so sad through the chainlink".

Unfortunately, people have been trying to make this zoo better from the day they acquired their first animal and the changes have been minimal. They've been given so many chances to shape up that it's getting a bit ridiculous.
 
Devon-leave these people alone and run along somewhere else. This forum is one of the few on the net that you haven't tired to bomb with your AR crap.
 
@Isupportzoos: have you seen the photos and read the reports on GuZoo? I've been to many, many zoos and regard the Edmonton's Valley Zoo as one of the all-time worst...but it is a hundred times better than GuZoo. Anyway, feel free to post photos of good exhibits in Alberta zoos...
 
I don't mind Devonvm protesting against zoos if he wants to (I can see reasons why people can do so about certain zoos) but as of yet she has not done so, so Isuppotzoos, leave Devonvm alone!

Welcome aboard, and enjoy your time on the forum!
 
Isupportzoos said:
Devon-leave these people alone and run along somewhere else. This forum is one of the few on the net that you haven't tired to bomb with your AR crap.
Click to expand...

Why don't you show some respect for "these people's" intelligence and let them make their OWN decision as to whether or not I deserve to be a member of this forum?

As far as I can tell the members of this forum are not people that blindly support every zoo just because it is a zoo... I believe that modern zoos such as The Calgary Zoo who actively contribute to species and habitat conservation, play a valuable role. The Edmonton Valley Zoo also contributes to both, however, they have a lot of room for improvement (as does the Calgary zoo in some areas) particularly with their sea lions and single elephant.

Another huge difference with both of those zoos is the staff presence, enclosure safety/construction, cleanliness, and a huge effort on both parts to provide adequate enrichment to all of their animals. Enrichment is pretty much nonexistant at Guzoo.

I believe that both The Edmonton Valley Zoo and The Calgary Zoo have shown the desire to improve and the ability to do so, something that Guzoo hasn't done despite the desperate need for it. If the citizens of Alberta want to help any zoos, it should be the two zoos that show the most potential and actually contribute positively to the animal kingdom. I DO NOT believe zoos should just exist solely for the entertainment of people. If that makes me an extremist, so be it.
 
I couldn't agree more with you Devonvm, and I'm a zoo fan who has been to a lot of various zoos, wildlife parks and aquariums. If you see the Edmonton Valley Zoo thread you'll see that I don't have many nice things to say about that hole in the ground, but it's still a beauty compared to GuZoo. At the Valley Zoo the elephant Lucy lives alone in an outdated exhibit, and the "Saito Center" with the aging sea lions is one of the worst enclosures I've seen in my life. With Edmonton's bitter winters, those sea lions must spend months on end in their cramped indoor exhibit, and only a fool would commend that terrible pool.
 
I am not connected with guzoo in any maner here. I just don't like to see all the animal shelters and zoos attacked.

I was there just last week with 5 others including an experienced zoo keeper. We took more them 500 photos and we never saw anything even close to what Devon says.

It is not perfect as well all agreed. Can it be better, of course it can.

I will leave this alone and you guys can make up your own minds here.
 
@Isupportzoos: GuZoo is a very famous "zoo" in Canada. It is famous for being ****, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I will respect yours. By the way, I sent you a private email asking about the now defunct Polar Park and its owner Al Oeming. Do you have an update for me? Cheers!
 
Isupportzoos said:
I am not connected with guzoo in any maner here. I just don't like to see all the animal shelters and zoos attacked.

I was there just last week with 5 others including an experienced zoo keeper. We took more them 500 photos and we never saw anything even close to what Devon says.

It is not perfect as well all agreed. Can it be better, of course it can.

I will leave this alone and you guys can make up your own minds here.
Click to expand...

well one purpose of this forum is to premote healthy debate about zoos and wildlife parks so feel free to post your photos and share your veiws of the park but please dont make personal attacks about people and their veiws.
 
So Where are these 500 photos of Guzoo which show us that there are huge improvements from what we have been given to date ? Someone has got a heck of a job if they are going to convince me that Guzoo keep operating at its current rate . I have asked straight questions about this establishment , and all I have recieved is soppy irrelevant answers that try to tug at heartstrings but did not give a straight answer .

Isupportzoos , Thankyou for your very kind remarks about someone on the forum .......see below ......
Devon-leave these people alone and run along somewhere else. This forum is one of the few on the net that you haven't tired to bomb with your AR crap.

Charming ......


If Devon tries to "bomb" us with "AR Crap " I can assure you that we will speak our minds in no uncertain terms ( within the rules of this forum ) If you read all of our threads you will find that most of us have little time for AR extremists
until such time , Devon is more than welcome to post threads on zoo matters just as the same as the rest of us .
Devons response to me does not smack of " AR Crap " , and neither does her remarks about Calgary Zoo .
If you are really annoyed about Devons existance , perhaps you should campaign to have the Guzoo DRASTICALLY improved , or permanently closed down . That way it will remove all the ammunition that the AR groups have towards this establishment ( I dont want to call it a zoo -- it will give any half decent zoo a bad name .

You say you were at Guzoo with an experienced zoo keeper . Who is this zookeeper ? I would dearly love to find out his/her views ( or was it a staff member ? )

Isupportzoos , if you would like to respond to me in the same way as you respond to Devon , thats your privilege . But on what basis DO you "support" zoos ? If zoos do not care for their animals , you may as well consider me to be an AR extremist .

Thanks for showing no respect !!

respectfully yours ,
Nigel
 
Devonvm said:
I have never protested at the Edmonton Zoo, nor have I ever protested at any zoo...

I am also not a member nor am I a supporter of the Animal Liberation Front.

It's not as if they even have a written membership, that would be pretty stupid of them, don't you think?

I am not an extremist by any means.
Click to expand...

I nearly fell off my chair laughing when I read this.

Isupportzoos is right. Take everything she says with a shovel load of salt.
 
You guys seem to think you know me so well, but you don't. Just because I don't eat meat and I don't support Guzoo, doesn't mean I'm an extremist. You guys haven't the first clue as to what my beliefs are regarding a wide range of animal related issues so how can you slap a label on me like that?
 
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