Hippos in Canada

TZFan

TZFan

Well-Known Member
10+ year member
I was chatting about hippos with someone and realized there cant be any breeding in Canada for hippos anytime in the near future due to two factors.

First most of our hippos are related.

Toronto has full siblings
Samson (M)
Petal (F)
Perky (F)

Vancouver has full siblings
Hazina (F)
Haben (M)

Calgary has a grandmother grandson pairing
Sparky (F)
Lobi (M)

Granby has an unrelated pair
Kiboko (M)
Polita (F)
... but they are the parents of Lobi, Hazina and Haben. And Kiboko is Sparky's son.

That leaves Kiboko and Polita the only unrelated pair at the same facility but they are related to all but 3 of the 9 hippos in Canada (unless Im missing other hippos... please correct me if Im missing any). To breed more Samson would have to be moved to Vancouver, Calgary or Granby (but why switch hippos there). Yet hes 40 so why risk moving him. The other option would be moving Lobi or Haben (again why move Kiboko) to Toronto to breed with Petal or Perky. But while they are younger than Samson they have never breed so breeding now might be dangerous for them and frankly Toronto doesnt have the space. So again that leaves us with one possibl breeding pair.

But then enter problem 2. None of Canada's hippos shouldnt be bred because they have a certain amount of their ancestry unknown which is considered a no no for breeding these days.

The Toronto hippos parents (offspring of granbys orginal hippos and their full sister Cindy now in Philly) are from unknown origins. The zoo hasnt been able to trace where exactly they came from so they are considered unbreedable because they could be related to any of the other hippos.

Calgary's Sparky and there for all of her descendents, Kiboko, Hazani, Haben and Lobi... plus others come from Toronto Zoos original pair Flaggstaff and Perky I. Flaggstaff was wild captured and considered a founder but Perky I's parents are unrecorded even though shes captive born. Unfortunately that makes her a genetic problem because she could be related to any other hippo. So Sparky's heritage is half known. Kiboko then is 3/4 known because Foggy was well recorded. That makes him breedable but....

Granby's Polita has no recorded parents. Therefore she is considered unbreedable and her and Kiboko's offspring Hazina, Haben and Lobi fall below the magic 3/4s known to 1/4 known. They shouldnt be breed either. If Granby continues to breed they will probably find it hard to place the calf because no US zoo will want an unbreedable animal and as it sits right now the other Canadian zoos are near capacity with their own unbreedable animals most of whom are still quite young or just middle aged (Samson being the exception).

I think as a whole Canada wont be breeding any hippo calves in the near future. We are stuck with related, unbreedable animals who will be around for a long time to come. Until bigger exhibits that can house our current stock and then new breeding animals and their offspring we are stuck. And Canada will be waiting quite awhile for that. Toronto isnt planning on renovating their exhibit for 10-15 years... assuming no delays. And Calgary isnt looking at renovating their African section for 20-25 years. I have no clue about Vancouver but being one of the smaller zoos in Canada I wouldnt be surprised if it couldnt renovate. And I dont know about Granby... I think its the newest of the hippo exhibits in Canada for some reason.

Comments?
 
Hippos are considered fairly cold weather tolerant so long as they have a warm barn and heated pool.

Im sure more hippos will come up from the states eventually when new exhibits are ready. Its just a long waiting game.
 
Would you happen to know what their names are? I might be able to find out more if I knew their names.
 
Never mind I found out myself thanks to google. They are Bobo and Gladys. Now to see what else I can find.
 
Ok my research is telling me that Gladys and Bobo are Granby animals and half siblings. Bobos father was Henry who was never at the zoo and Polita who came to the zoo pregnant with him. Gladys is his half sister through Polita. Her father is Kiboko. Therefore they are in a similar breedable boat. Bobo's hertiege is half known, while Gladys's is 1/4 known like her full siblings. They cannot be bred with each other. Bobo could be bred with Toronto's girls and Sparky but those girls are already ruled out as possible breeders due to age. Gladys could be bred to Samson but again same problem.
 
Sad news out of Calgary Sparky gave birth to stillborn twins Jan 3. Probably for the best considering Lobi is Sparky's grandson. Not really an ideal pairing. The pregnancy wasnt planned. They had her on birth control, they figured Sparky was getting too old anyway and they wrongly though Lobi was too young. Woops. The twins died shortly before birth due to twisted umbilical cords. It is a pity for the zoo. After all they had been through last year with the flood twin hippo calves would have been a real boost to visitors and sales of hippo related items.

Hippo delivers stillborn twins at Calgary Zoo | Metro
 
The greater Vancouver zoo's hippo exhibit is fairly large and as it is right now it could probably hold a couple more. Thier indoor for the hippos needs an expansion though, if they did that they would be able to hold a nicely sized group.
 
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TZFan said:
Hippos are considered fairly cold weather tolerant so long as they have a warm barn and heated pool.
Click to expand...

...what is valid for African elephants too.

It takes me wonder why some of you Canadians accept Common Hippos and Rhinos in your zoos but not AFRICAN Elephants (Asians might be a little different because of their more "tropical" natural habitat).

African Elephants can occur in cold(er) habitats like the mountaine regions in Eastern Africa (= up to 5000 meters). Afaik, Common Hippos (and also White Rhinos) do not occur in that high.

Yes, some extremities of Elephants may freeze in cold Winter. But that is also valid for Hippos and Rhinos.

While Greater one-horned Rhinos are considered as (mostly) solitary, Common Hippos do live in herds (with the exception of subadult or very old bulls occasionaly). Again: The same premise as for African Elephants.

The skin of a Hippo is as sensitive (or even more) against dry cold as the skin of an African Elephant.

Yes, Elephants are bigger (exactly: heavier) then hippos and rhinos in general. But - imo - that doesn't mean, the later need a less spacious indoor exhibit for winter time. Also, because hippos are amphibious, costs for heating the water and for the water itself are higher.

So unless I did not forget an important fact regarding the climatic conditions, there is no reason to say no to the Elephants and yes to Rhinos and Hippos.
 
TZFan said:
But then enter problem 2. None of Canada's hippos shouldnt be bred because they have a certain amount of their ancestry unknown which is considered a no no for breeding these days.
Comments?
Click to expand...

Could you please explain this ancestry criteria/history that is necessary for breeding? Thanks!
 
Zoomaniac you make a very good point. My comment was based on what the AZA says about hippos... not my own personal opinion. Frankly I would have assumed hippos would be less tolerant than an elephant or rhino for the same reasons as you. Torontos decision to get rid of its elephants was complex and while climate was part of the consideration it was largely because of the cost it would have added to the massive renovations necessary to keep the program going. I could go into it but its already all be hashed through in other posts... and Ill end up spewing hatred about a certain game show host.

Jabiru I would be happy to explain ancestry to you. The AZA... well most zoo associations to be fair... like to know where each animal comes from to prevent possible inbreeding and the effects that can have on the genetic integrity of the population. Its all about keeping the genetics of the population as diverse as possible for as long as possible. Its not like you can just go get more animals from the wild to boost genetic diversity as often as they used to. So the AZA keeps extensive studbooks to keep track of who is related to who and then use that information to make recommendations for breeding to ensure the best possible genetic offspring.

Now the problem with our Canadian hippos is that we had some shotty record keeping when some of our early hippos arrived in Canada. The zoos can report when the hippo arrived to their zoo but not where it came from or when. Without knowing the where or when no one can be sure who they are related to if anyone. Its impossible to tell if they were from a well represented hippo already in North America meaning breeding that hippo or their offspring would damage the genetics of the population or if they are very vaulable to the population because they are wild born. I would assume our unknown founder (origonal) hippos in Canada were likely imported directly from Africa and therefore their descendants would be vaulable to the population but without the zoos being able to say that for certain the AZA will not take the risk. If they could even say they were wild captured they would then assume the animal was unrelated to all others.

Hope that helps.
 
TZFan said:
Zoomaniac you make a very good point. My comment was based on what the AZA says about hippos... not my own personal opinion. Frankly I would have assumed hippos would be less tolerant than an elephant or rhino for the same reasons as you. Torontos decision to get rid of its elephants was complex and while climate was part of the consideration it was largely because of the cost it would have added to the massive renovations necessary to keep the program going. I could go into it but its already all be hashed through in other posts... and Ill end up spewing hatred about a certain game show host.

Jabiru I would be happy to explain ancestry to you. The AZA... well most zoo associations to be fair... like to know where each animal comes from to prevent possible inbreeding and the effects that can have on the genetic integrity of the population. Its all about keeping the genetics of the population as diverse as possible for as long as possible. Its not like you can just go get more animals from the wild to boost genetic diversity as often as they used to. So the AZA keeps extensive studbooks to keep track of who is related to who and then use that information to make recommendations for breeding to ensure the best possible genetic offspring.

Now the problem with our Canadian hippos is that we had some shotty record keeping when some of our early hippos arrived in Canada. The zoos can report when the hippo arrived to their zoo but not where it came from or when. Without knowing the where or when no one can be sure who they are related to if anyone. Its impossible to tell if they were from a well represented hippo already in North America meaning breeding that hippo or their offspring would damage the genetics of the population or if they are very vaulable to the population because they are wild born. I would assume our unknown founder (origonal) hippos in Canada were likely imported directly from Africa and therefore their descendants would be vaulable to the population but without the zoos being able to say that for certain the AZA will not take the risk. If they could even say they were wild captured they would then assume the animal was unrelated to all others.

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that.
 
TZFan said:
Zoomaniac you make a very good point. My comment was based on what the AZA says about hippos... not my own personal opinion. Frankly I would have assumed hippos would be less tolerant than an elephant or rhino for the same reasons as you. Torontos decision to get rid of its elephants was complex and while climate was part of the consideration it was largely because of the cost it would have added to the massive renovations necessary to keep the program going. I could go into it but its already all be hashed through in other posts... and Ill end up spewing hatred about a certain game show host.

Jabiru I would be happy to explain ancestry to you. The AZA... well most zoo associations to be fair... like to know where each animal comes from to prevent possible inbreeding and the effects that can have on the genetic integrity of the population. Its all about keeping the genetics of the population as diverse as possible for as long as possible. Its not like you can just go get more animals from the wild to boost genetic diversity as often as they used to. So the AZA keeps extensive studbooks to keep track of who is related to who and then use that information to make recommendations for breeding to ensure the best possible genetic offspring.

Now the problem with our Canadian hippos is that we had some shotty record keeping when some of our early hippos arrived in Canada. The zoos can report when the hippo arrived to their zoo but not where it came from or when. Without knowing the where or when no one can be sure who they are related to if anyone. Its impossible to tell if they were from a well represented hippo already in North America meaning breeding that hippo or their offspring would damage the genetics of the population or if they are very vaulable to the population because they are wild born. I would assume our unknown founder (origonal) hippos in Canada were likely imported directly from Africa and therefore their descendants would be vaulable to the population but without the zoos being able to say that for certain the AZA will not take the risk. If they could even say they were wild captured they would then assume the animal was unrelated to all others.

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...


Thank you for your reply, TZFan. I see, we are agree in that point (and I did not forget your posts about Toronto Zoo and its Elephants, so further comments are not necessairy about this:))
 
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