My understanding is that all breeding from the hybrid animals stopped, and only pure mandrills were bred, making all individulas in the region pure.
History & Futures of Mandrills in Australia
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My understanding is that all breeding from the hybrid animals stopped, and only pure mandrills were bred, making all individulas in the region pure.
Stopping breeding of hybrid animals doesn't mean the existing hybrid animals no longer exist, so there should still be some old hybrid animals in Australia.
However, that aside, if after the discovery that the Melbourne animals were hybrids the breeding of them was stopped, we could surmise that some of Taronga's mandrills founded the current Melbourne population while Adelaide's remained distinct until recent additions from the Taronga-derived Melbourne stock. So there would have been three pure populations derived from two sources, but after Taronga's group became infected with encephalomyocarditis virus which killed a bunch of them that basically removed that group from the gene pool because they probably weren't (shouldn't have been) able to be moved to other groups.
If that is all correct, then the current Australian breeding population is derived from two inbred but genetically-distinct groups.
All sound about right?
The alternatives are that Melbourne's current stock is derived from Adelaide's (meaning the entire population is terribly inbred), or that Melbourne imported brand new stock.
"Yonaton" lol - close
That's him! Was he imported from Europe?
I seem to remember hearing he came from a zoo in Egypt..... I thought I remembered hearing he came from a large troop, and whilst he was 'old enough' he hadn't yet coloured up because of all the other older males in the troop. I have often wondered what zoo in Egypt (or any where) had a troop of Mandrills that size (about 30 from memory)
Do you know if he has bred at Melbourne?
okay I found Yonaton. He came from Jerusalem's Biblical Zoo and he is Melbourne's breeding male (still?). His females came from Adelaide Zoo.
The following article is from November 2009.
ZoomInfo Cached Page
So it looks like after Melbourne's animals were found to be hybrids they stopped breeding them and started up a new group using Adelaide females and an unrelated imported male.
I believe the ZAA now treats mandrills as a phase-out species yes?
The following article is from November 2009.
ZoomInfo Cached Page
So it looks like after Melbourne's animals were found to be hybrids they stopped breeding them and started up a new group using Adelaide females and an unrelated imported male.
I believe the ZAA now treats mandrills as a phase-out species yes?
... Why am I not surprised???!!! Charismatic, endangered primate, fits into West African display (gorilla, bongo, pygmy hippo), yeah lets phase it out...
Also Perth held Mandrills, I think a pair, in the 70s. Cannot remember what happened to them, memory says male died, but could be wrong.
zooboy28
Well-Known Member
Not technically phase-out, currently they are "no regional program" species. However unless they import some more or get some serious breeding happening they may as well be phase-out.
Melbourne appears to be down to 1.2 animals (Yonatan, Louise and Timbiri), at least on display, so I don't know what became of Leroy? Either he was sent to Adelaide Zoo or is off-display or died I guess. In which case there are not necessarily any hybrid animals left (except possibly the old pair at Tasmania) unless Adelaide's stock is descended from Melbourne's hybrids? In which case they would all be hybrids, so what was the point of bringing a new male in?
2017 Update
Melbourne Zoo: male Yonaton (born 1994) and females Louise (born 1986) and Timbiri (born 1994) have all passed away this year, currently leaving Melbourne Zoo without mandrills.
Adelaide Zoo: currently holding male Tabah (born 2005) and females Penny (born 1988), Niari (born 1996), Moabi (born 1998) and Mayombe (born 2010).
Tasmania Zoo: currently holding male Kouilou (born 2011) and female Lara (born 2002?).
I'm now following a theory that Lara was born 2002 to Louise as there was a female mandrill born at Melbourne Zoo in March 2002 (News for March 2002), noted as being the second born to Louise and the first to father, Yonaton. Melbourne Zoo have a tradition of naming offspring with the same initial as their mother eg. Louise also gave birth to Leroy in 2009. Since Tabah was born 2005 at Melbourne Zoo, it's a likely assumption he is Timbiri's son.
If these assumptions are correct, this is good and bad news, on one hand, the Tasmania Zoo have a relatively young female, who at 15 years old, could potentially produce at least 4 offspring over the next few years. However, her mate would be her great nephew...
Louise (1986) - Timbiri (1994) - Tabah (2005) - Kouilou (2011)
Louise (1986) - Lara (2002)
Either way, it's clear more imports are needed to sustain this species long term in the region. As suggested by others, maybe the smaller zoos will pick up the slack as they seem to be routinely doing these days.
Melbourne Zoo: male Yonaton (born 1994) and females Louise (born 1986) and Timbiri (born 1994) have all passed away this year, currently leaving Melbourne Zoo without mandrills.
Adelaide Zoo: currently holding male Tabah (born 2005) and females Penny (born 1988), Niari (born 1996), Moabi (born 1998) and Mayombe (born 2010).
Tasmania Zoo: currently holding male Kouilou (born 2011) and female Lara (born 2002?).
I'm now following a theory that Lara was born 2002 to Louise as there was a female mandrill born at Melbourne Zoo in March 2002 (News for March 2002), noted as being the second born to Louise and the first to father, Yonaton. Melbourne Zoo have a tradition of naming offspring with the same initial as their mother eg. Louise also gave birth to Leroy in 2009. Since Tabah was born 2005 at Melbourne Zoo, it's a likely assumption he is Timbiri's son.
If these assumptions are correct, this is good and bad news, on one hand, the Tasmania Zoo have a relatively young female, who at 15 years old, could potentially produce at least 4 offspring over the next few years. However, her mate would be her great nephew...
Louise (1986) - Timbiri (1994) - Tabah (2005) - Kouilou (2011)
Louise (1986) - Lara (2002)
Either way, it's clear more imports are needed to sustain this species long term in the region. As suggested by others, maybe the smaller zoos will pick up the slack as they seem to be routinely doing these days.
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just curious: are you getting the above statements from me saying in the other thread that I don't know which male is no longer at Adelaide, that it is possible he went to Tasmania, and that the latter is purely a guess?
(Also, for anyone else reading through this thread from the beginning, most of my assumptions in it turned out to be rubbish while I was trying to work out where the hybrids fit into the current zoo stock! Breeding of the hybrids was stopped, and new troops started with pure animals.)
Sorry Chlidonias, yes I was. I believed both males to still be at Adelaide but you're usually right about this sort of thing so when you said they now have 1.4, I decided to believe you, rather than my information from the website, which is probably outdated. The rest is just common sense. The younger male is directly related to 2/3 of females so he's the more likely to shift, combined with the tension that was arising from his presence in the group. Tasmania Zoo have recently lost their aged male and need a replacement, and there are no other holders in the region.
yep, just so long as you realise that which male and his whereabouts are "guesswork" (although likely) until something definite comes out.
But who was his father- Yonaton or a previous (hybrid) male....?
Yonaton, who was imported in 2000. As I said above, all the mandrills now in Australia are pure not hybrid.
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In my opinion, mandrills should now be THE number one priority species for ZAA zoos to import:
They are high profile, easily recognisable, and visitors love them (even non Zoo Nerds). They make a perfect ambassador species.
Secondly, both Melbourne and Sydney have African rainforest style exhibits - and they fit into these perfectly. Smaller zoos such as Mogo could jump on board too. Even Dubbo and Werribee could house them. And to add to this, Adelaide already has a decent breeding group!
Why on earth would ZAA not want this species any more? It amazes me how much ZAA seems to have an aversion to old world monkey species.... don't get me started on dusky leaf langurs....
They are high profile, easily recognisable, and visitors love them (even non Zoo Nerds). They make a perfect ambassador species.
Secondly, both Melbourne and Sydney have African rainforest style exhibits - and they fit into these perfectly. Smaller zoos such as Mogo could jump on board too. Even Dubbo and Werribee could house them. And to add to this, Adelaide already has a decent breeding group!
Why on earth would ZAA not want this species any more? It amazes me how much ZAA seems to have an aversion to old world monkey species.... don't get me started on dusky leaf langurs....
