Howletts Wild Animal Park History of Douc Langurs at Howletts?
- Thread starter Bwassa
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Bwassa
Well-Known Member
I remember seeing a programme about breeding at San Diego, and their Douc's were shielded from the public gaze by some kind of tinted glass- so people could look into the exhibit, but the langurs couldn't see them. This was to help reduce stress, if I remember. I'll have to dig out the dvd.
I looked after the Douc group at Howletts from 1988 to 1992. Chantilly and Ronan were the mother and son you would have seen then. They were indeed absolutely stunning species to work with and seemed much more highly strung than the other species of langur we had at the time. This was the time that the first groups of banded langurs, both colour phases, and the pair of maroon leaf monkeys were brought in with mixed success. We also had 2 breeding groups of the Javan brown langurs and a few satellite cages with odd individuals.
I have some stunning photos of the Doucs that I will upload. They were very vocal and intereacted very closely with staff working with them, they were far less aloof than some langurs and I feel this did contribute to any stresses from exposure to the public. Their enclosure was as far back from the access pathway that we could sensibly have it in the location to the left of the mansion. When the doucs became ill it was incredibly quick as they would show low appetite, the 'wobbles' and then fade very fast. At Howletts at that time their diet was very carefully managed, comprising Kenya beans as the staple, along with twice daily hawthorne or willow browse - frozen in winter and fresh rest of year, supplemented with cauliflower, broccoli, carrot and very occasional single fruit items. I will find the photos and add them on here.
I have some stunning photos of the Doucs that I will upload. They were very vocal and intereacted very closely with staff working with them, they were far less aloof than some langurs and I feel this did contribute to any stresses from exposure to the public. Their enclosure was as far back from the access pathway that we could sensibly have it in the location to the left of the mansion. When the doucs became ill it was incredibly quick as they would show low appetite, the 'wobbles' and then fade very fast. At Howletts at that time their diet was very carefully managed, comprising Kenya beans as the staple, along with twice daily hawthorne or willow browse - frozen in winter and fresh rest of year, supplemented with cauliflower, broccoli, carrot and very occasional single fruit items. I will find the photos and add them on here.
Belated welcome and thanks for sharing your firsthand experiences on here.
Do you remember why the Doucs became ill or what actually caused their death? I know they are liable to 'collapse' but that's usually if they are stressed, which seems not to have been the case with the Howletts' ones.
Hiya, it was definitely the winter months that would generally see such rapid deterioration. They had large inside quarters that were heated and off show with several bedroom areas to utilise. Doucs have such slender limbs and less dense fur coverage than the other langurs that we kept more successfully. They also loved to go outside in all seasons and became stressed if shut inside during prolonged periods of extreme weather.
Bloating was an occasional issue with the Doucs but we would work hard to modify the proportions of the different items in their diet to get the balance right,especially during our varying seasons and availability of fresh browse.
Bloating was an occasional issue with the Doucs but we would work hard to modify the proportions of the different items in their diet to get the balance right,especially during our varying seasons and availability of fresh browse.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
I believe they have gone out of them.
The two Himalayan Black Bears were from the very early days when the zoo was still private, John moved them on because of the incident where they very nearly attacked him, I cannot recall the full story but I do know it is in one of the two Aspinall books about the early days.
I too remember the Doucs, they were a very nice active group when I saw them, I think bad luck was the over-riding cause of their demise, ie; a combination of some unexpected deaths and the male births! Obvious hurdles to establishing a productive group long-term. In the Doucs case I do think climate is as crucial as is the correct diet, and as has been said, a specific diet would not have been a problem for them at Howletts.
Bad luck and politics were the main stumbling blocks in the case of the Sumatran Rhinos.
I don`t think Howletts really "fails" with any of their species - at least it is not for a lack of effort that is for sure!
I too remember the Doucs, they were a very nice active group when I saw them, I think bad luck was the over-riding cause of their demise, ie; a combination of some unexpected deaths and the male births! Obvious hurdles to establishing a productive group long-term. In the Doucs case I do think climate is as crucial as is the correct diet, and as has been said, a specific diet would not have been a problem for them at Howletts.
Bad luck and politics were the main stumbling blocks in the case of the Sumatran Rhinos.
I don`t think Howletts really "fails" with any of their species - at least it is not for a lack of effort that is for sure!
Mr.Aspinall was attacked by the Bears.. as he had gone in with them on his own.I spent 4 great yrs working for the late Mr. Aspinall, and can honestly say money was never a problem, the animal,s great and small always came first, full credit to Mr Aspinall for using his own money for conservation, he was and his one of very few people who has done this.
There is the odd exception. The Golden Bellied Mangabeys for one. Just a single aging pair with no breeding. They also had a single pair of non-breeding RR Hogs at Port Lympne for about 10 years without making a change of partners, until one of them died and another was transferred from Howletts-after which they bred. In the case of the Hogs it might have been deliberate policy of course, though I think that PL pair were one of the very first in the UK. But I think something should have been done about the Mangabeys. I believe they could have got some more to promote breeding but for some reason haven't done so.
I guess longterm they can be said to have failed with the Asian elephants too( they virtually admitted as much)- though they only shared the same problems experienced by many other zoos keeping them, and finally did something about it.
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IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
The story of the Asiatic Black Bears is told in "The Passion of John Aspinall" by Brian Masters (1988: Jonathan Cape, ISBN 0224023535 (ISBN13: 9780224023535)) . Basically Aspinall went into play with the bears, which he had kept from being cubs, and the female was in oestrus. The male took grave exception to Aspinall's presence and damn near killed him. Whilst I don't know, the mansion's close proximity to that open-topped and moated Eurasian Lynx enclosure, convince me that the latter was built for those bears.
IMO it is a very great pity that neither Aspinall nor Gerald Durrell have as yet been the subject of biographies by authors who really have a grasp of zoos and their politics. Douglas Botting, Durrell's biographer is essentially a travel writer, whilst Masters' forte appears to be the British aristocracy and mass murderers....
IMO it is a very great pity that neither Aspinall nor Gerald Durrell have as yet been the subject of biographies by authors who really have a grasp of zoos and their politics. Douglas Botting, Durrell's biographer is essentially a travel writer, whilst Masters' forte appears to be the British aristocracy and mass murderers....
I know this is a total side-track, but what I really wanted in the Durrell biography was an appendix listing all the animals he brought back on each of his collecting trips! That would have been grand, and I imagine the records must exist in the Jersey files.IMO it is a very great pity that neither Aspinall nor Gerald Durrell have as yet been the subject of biographies by authors who really have a grasp of zoos and their politics. Douglas Botting, Durrell's biographer is essentially a travel writer, whilst Masters' forte appears to be the British aristocracy and mass murderers....
I asked for the data of several birdspecies and I was told the info is there, but the people knowing where the data was (or knowing it by heart) are unfortunately extremely busy. I should actually make some time and ask access to search for it myself, but also time has been an issue so I have not made that request yet.