How many Zoos and Parks in Uk have White Tigers

[Cheetah fan]

I did a quick Google search for "White Tiger deformity"

Aaaaand...

Edit: No, huh...


I also read this

"White Tigers can ONLY exist in captivity by continual inbreeding, such as father to daughter, brother to sister, mother to son and so forth...
...ALL white tigers are cross eyed, whether it shows or not, because the gene that causes the white coat always causes the optic nerve to be wired to the wrong side of the brain. That is why white tigers are such a favorite of the tiger-tamer-wanabees; they are far more dependant upon their masters."

From repticzone.net

I seriously doubt there easier to keep. I have personally met someone who had/has/will have again White Tigers and he never claims they were easy to keep. In his absence due to mistreatment one White Tiger mauled a professional keeper to death. They are in no way timid. I fully back White Tigers like White Lions. They are a sub-species but that doesn't distract from them. They are living breathing animals and as such they deserve love care and help. On a side note what are your views on the White Lions (of Timbivati)? Do you class them as inbred? If so can I point you in the direction of a Lion called Gandor who was born to two Tawny Lions who no one knew held the white gene. And from those comments I know people will guess I have met and support Craig Busch.

 

[Maguari]

I fully back White Tigers like White Lions. They are a sub-species but that doesn't distract from them.

White tigers and white lions are NOT subspecies.


They are colour forms of (in their original form) Bengal Tiger, Panthera tigris tigris and South African Lion, Panthera leo krugeri respectively. In both cases they are a minority - indeed almost non-existent as far as we can tell in wild Bengal Tigers.

'Zoo' white tigers are generally (possibly universally) no longer pure Bengals - there are very few pure Bengals at all in capitivity outside Asia due to a history of cross-breeding, particularly with Siberian/Amur Tigers.

As far as I'm aware, the zoo white lion population is still pure P. l. krugeri (in Europe, at least, most are directly descended from South African imports).

 

[taun]

I seriously doubt there easier to keep. I have personally met someone who had/has/will have again White Tigers and he never claims they were easy to keep. In his absence due to mistreatment one White Tiger mauled a professional keeper to death. They are in no way timid. I fully back White Tigers like White Lions. They are a sub-species but that doesn't distract from them. They are living breathing animals and as such they deserve love care and help. On a side note what are your views on the White Lions (of Timbivati)? Do you class them as inbred? If so can I point you in the direction of a Lion called Gandor who was born to two Tawny Lions who no one knew held the white gene. And from those comments I know people will guess I have met and support Craig Busch.

O'dear another poor miss-guided soul.

Please do your reserch on "white" tigers, as they are not a sub-species in their own right they can only be found in the benegal sub-species.

"White" lions well, yes I agree they come from a sub-species but in their own right again they are not a sub-species and who are we to bred these animals for the production of more white cubs?
There is a reason that they don't appear in the wild often and that is down to nature.

 

[Cheetah fan]

O'dear another poor miss-guided soul.

Please do your reserch on "white" tigers, as they are not a sub-species in their own right they can only be found in the benegal sub-species.

"White" lions well, yes I agree they come from a sub-species but in their own right again they are not a sub-species and who are we to bred these animals for the production of more white cubs?
There is a reason that they don't appear in the wild often and that is down to nature.

Gandor the White Lion I mentioned was born in a preserve. No one knew his parents carried the white gene. How can you think he was purposely bred. I will never say they dont deserve to be on this planet, after all who are we to say what should and shouldn't live no matter how? Yes nature can decide that but there are wild White Lions so they deserve the care and help all other Lions get. I am sure at one point White Tigers did roam, yes they may have been inbred but they do exist an do we really want another creature becoming extinct?

 

[taun]

Hats off to you Maguari,

you said it alot better than myself.

 

[taun]

Gandor the White Lion I mentioned was born in a preserve. No one knew his parents carried the white gene. How can you think he was purposely bred. I will never say they dont deserve to be on this planet, after all who are we to say what should and shouldn't live no matter how? Yes nature can decide that but there are wild White Lions so they deserve the care and help all other Lions get. I am sure at one point White Tigers did roam, yes they may have been inbred but they do exist an do we really want another creature becoming extinct?

Firstly I never mention Gandor or the reserve am talking about the shambles of a captive breeding program just for "white" lions. Now if that program was for the sub-species and included the normal coloured lions then AM ALL FOR IT. However as this is not the case my stance on this terrible breeding for "white" lions will not change.

As I have said before do your research on the matter and don't believe just the one source!

As for "white" tigers, they are not the norm! They have again be bred irresponsible because they are "white". Again if they were in a PURE bred captive program I would be all for it but as is the case as nearly all "White" tigers are hybrids then we should not be breeding from them.

 

[Cheetah fan]

Dont get me wrong I understand your point of view. But please understand that to me they have as much right being on this planet as you or I. To me any cat or animal deserves to be looked after and respected no matter what. Yes some people treat them badly to breed them but who's at fault there? Its as much our fault there here so in my eyes we have a duty of care to them. Can you see what I am saying? We made them so we should care for them and see what nature decides.

 

[redpanda]

As for "white" tigers, they are not the norm! They have again be bred irresponsible because they are "white". Again if they were in a PURE bred captive program I would be all for it but as is the case as nearly all "White" tigers are hybrids then we should not be breeding from them.

And of course, they WOULD be extinct now were it now for the maharaja of rewa intervening. That is not because of deforestation or hunting, but because they are less well adapted to survive in the forests of India than orange tigers. This is how natural selection has worked for billions of years so, to subvert your own point, who are we to decide which species live and which die - what gives us the right to keep these animals on a life support machine at the expense of tigers valuable to conservation just because they "look pretty".

 

[Pertinax]

I am sure at one point White Tigers did roam, yes they may have been inbred but they do exist an do we really want another creature becoming extinct?

White tigers that occurred in the wild were not inbred, just part of a particular Tiger population in Central India. Inbreeding only occurred to further the colour mutation in captivity. If every white tiger on the Planet was wiped out, no animal species would become extinct, only a colour form of one.

Also re 'nature taking its course' White tigers in captivity are not the product of natural selection- quite the reverse in fact and the process is akin to the selective breeding of any other form of livestock.

 

[taun]

Dont get me wrong I understand your point of view. But please understand that to me they have as much right being on this planet as you or I. To me any cat or animal deserves to be looked after and respected no matter what. Yes some people treat them badly to breed them but who's at fault there? Its as much our fault there here so in my eyes we have a duty of care to them. Can you see what I am saying? We made them so we should care for them and see what nature decides.

But by doing so does it not cheapen conservation?

Not sure what you mean by we made them? Yes people should be responsible for their actions however we cannot save every mutation/colour morph/ freaks of the animal world. If we put all the time and energy in exhibiting, breeding and conserving the species/sub-species we would actually potential conserve those animals you dearly love.

So in my opinion we are only wasting valuable resources and therefore not actually being reponsible for the mistakes our past generation, our generation and our future generations may make.

 

[zoogiraffe]

I seriously doubt there easier to keep. I have personally met someone who had/has/will have again White Tigers and he never claims they were easy to keep. In his absence due to mistreatment one White Tiger mauled a professional keeper to death. They are in no way timid. I fully back White Tigers like White Lions. They are a sub-species but that doesn't distract from them. They are living breathing animals and as such they deserve love care and help. On a side note what are your views on the White Lions (of Timbivati)? Do you class them as inbred? If so can I point you in the direction of a Lion called Gandor who was born to two Tawny Lions who no one knew held the white gene. And from those comments I know people will guess I have met and support Craig Busch.

In that case if you have meet Craig Busch i suggest you do some research about the man and the things he`s done and not believe his self promoting ******** tv series called the lion man.

 

[reduakari]

They are not definitely NOT a subspecies. They are purposefully inbred freaks that are bred in order for unscrupulous people to make money off of unwitting or just plain ignorant people.

 

[Javan Rhino]

A quick question because there is something that confuses me about White Tigers: Can they be born naturally? I mean, the first ever one that people discovered must have been born naturally? Is it not a chance that this can happen again without the selective inbreeding? If so, and these are born in a zoo, would you not agree that it should be kept well and in good health like other tigers? Sure, the space/funds would be better used on 'normal' tigers, yet would it not be cruel to euthenize it (or whatever they would do to get rid) just because it is white? Maybe if they were not going to try and keep breeding 'normal' tigers from it it could go to a non breeding collection. Anyway, I don't know how possible it is for another natural white tiger to be born, so my points may be redundant.

Also, it is well documented that tigers are often selectively inbred in a really cruel manner just to produce more white tigers. Can I ask, is this the same for other things such as:
White Lion
Melanistic Jaguar
Melanistic Leopard
Colour morphs in snakes etc?

 

[Pertinax]

A quick question because there is something that confuses me about White Tigers: Can they be born naturally? I mean, the first ever one that people discovered must have been born naturally? Is it not a chance that this can happen again without the selective inbreeding?

They can indeed(and do sometimes) occur in the wild in Tiger populations in Central India. Historically there have been a number but I don't think one has been recorded since Mohan, the founding male of most White tiger strains, was captured in 1951 in Rewa state. He was the one white cub in a litter of 4. He was later bred with his own daughter to produce more white cubs so the inbreeding starting as early as that.

But White Tigers have more than once cropped up quite seperately in litters of Zooborn Tigers. Washington apparently had one in the 1930's and some were born to a pair of Tigers in a USA circus circa the 1960/70 era. Obviously in these cases both the parents unknowningly carried the 'white' gene and may have been imported originally from the area of India where White Tigers mostly occur.

White Tigers which have occurred in the wild are completely healthy and have been recorded as slightly larger than normal- Mohan was a very fine animal apparently. I've never heard the idea they also carry the gene for 'crosseyes' until now either, I suspect that has resulted from inbeeding., The problems occurred when the White tigers in zoos were repeatedly inbred over and over in subsequent generations to produce yet more White tigers, as thats when they started suffering skeletal, eyesight, jaw structure and other fundamental problems too.

There must be many normal tigers now, particularly in America, which carry the white gene and if two of these are(unknowingly) paired together, at least some white cubs are likely to result. But as there are virtually no Indian tigers in zoos outside India now there is no chance of any completely unrelated whites being born in Zoos as happened occassionally in the past- this feature isn't (reliably) recorded in other Tiger subspecies.

You aked about the process in White Lions, Black Jaguars and Leopards etc.
In White Lions I think the process is similar but demand is maybe not so high as the Tigers and so far I doubt if there have been the same detrimental effects in the Lions.

Although you can hypothetically produce Melanistic Jaguars and Leopards 'on demand' if you have the right genetic combination of parents, I don't think zoos deliberately do this and there is no demand in the same way as the Tigers.

I can't speak for snake production...

 

[Javan Rhino]

Thanks for answering that Pertinax . There are few Indian tigers outside of India? I thought many places had Bengal Tigers (where the white gene is there), are most 'Bengals' outside of India hybrids then?

 

[foz]

Thanks for answering that Pertinax . There are few Indian tigers outside of India? I thought many places had Bengal Tigers (where the white gene is there), are most 'Bengals' outside of India hybrids then?

Alot of zoos say they bengal tigers but really their heritage is just one confused mess. there are porbably very few (or none) pure bengal tigers outside of india

 

[Javan Rhino]

Alot of zoos say they bengal tigers but really their heritage is just one confused mess. there are porbably very few (or none) pure bengal tigers outside of india

Awww, that is a shame . Is the situation the same for Amur/Sumatran/Malayan/Indo-chinese etc or is it likely there are few 'pure' specimens of these as well?

 

[Maguari]

Awww, that is a shame . Is the situation the same for Amur/Sumatran/Malayan/Indo-chinese etc or is it likely there are few 'pure' specimens of these as well?

The zoo populations of Amur, Sumatran and Malayan Tigers are for the most part pure (though there may be the odd exception).

The Malayan subspecies (jacksoni) was split from the Indo-Chinese (corbetti), it appears that all the captive animals in Europe and North America are jacksoni (though a few still label them as corbetti - I think Berlin does). As such, I don't think there are any (or at least many) Indo-Chinese Tigers outside Asia.

 

[Javan Rhino]

The zoo populations of Amur, Sumatran and Malayan Tigers are for the most part pure (though there may be the odd exception).

The Malayan subspecies (jacksoni) was split from the Indo-Chinese (corbetti), it appears that all the captive animals in Europe and North America are jacksoni (though a few still label them as corbetti - I think Berlin does). As such, I don't think there are any (or at least many) Indo-Chinese Tigers outside Asia.

Cool, I am glad that some subspecies have a pure population thought it is a shame that not all of them have. So, I assume that the rarest outside of Asia are Pure Bengal, Indo-Chinese and South China?

 

[Pertinax]

The interesting thing is that in the distant past 'Indian' tigers were probably the commonest tiger seen in Zoos. Somewhere along the line their purity got lost. Now Sumatran and Amur are the main pure species exhibited.

The last pure Indian Tigers to be seen in the UK were in fact the Bristol Zoo White tigers, descended from the pair they imported from Rewa, India, in the 1960's. But that pure line has now been lost too. You can view some relevant threads about their history in the Uk forum.