Smithsonian National Zoo How should the Smithsonian National Zoo re-purpose their panda exhibit?

Indian rhinos were part of the original Asia Trail phase 2 plans back in 2003, but never materialized off paper. Phase 2 also was to included the otters (which ended up built during phase 1) and ultimately only became Elephant Trails after costs ballooned. You can still see the empty field along the boardwalk between the clouded leopards and otters where the rhinos were to be located. Part of phase 2 also included space for future Asian animals including gibbons, siamangs, cranes, and camels in a large empty patch south of the sloth bears and north of the new bird plateau. There are always these nice grand plans until reality hits...
 
In addition to what species could potentially fit easily into the space, everyone needs to keep in mind the work that goes into literally every change at this zoo, in particular. @NAIB Volunteer posted this in the news thread: https://www.ncpc.gov/files/projects...d_Renovation_Submission_Materials_Oct2023.pdf

Adding one shed to the kudu habitat and removing a few trees needs this level of detail, produced by an architect. It then has to be submitted to the National Capital Planning Commission, who have set times for reviewing stuff and then will probably ask for some more information and/or revisions, especially for anything larger. The architect(s) revise, then have to resubmit and wait for the next meeting. Anything that involves doing more than sticking a species in there with no changes to the habitat at all will likely take 6+ months just for approval, much longer if it's a bigger project. If they're hoping to get pandas back in the next few years, they're not going to attempt to do much of anything in the mean time because of the time and effort involved in making those changes (and then having to reverse the process to get it ready for pandas again).
 
TinoPup said:
In addition to what species could potentially fit easily into the space, everyone needs to keep in mind the work that goes into literally every change at this zoo, in particular. @NAIB Volunteer posted this in the news thread: https://www.ncpc.gov/files/projects...d_Renovation_Submission_Materials_Oct2023.pdf

Adding one shed to the kudu habitat and removing a few trees needs this level of detail, produced by an architect. It then has to be submitted to the National Capital Planning Commission, who have set times for reviewing stuff and then will probably ask for some more information and/or revisions, especially for anything larger. The architect(s) revise, then have to resubmit and wait for the next meeting. Anything that involves doing more than sticking a species in there with no changes to the habitat at all will likely take 6+ months just for approval, much longer if it's a bigger project. If they're hoping to get pandas back in the next few years, they're not going to attempt to do much of anything in the mean time because of the time and effort involved in making those changes (and then having to reverse the process to get it ready for pandas again).
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Honestly, with that amount of hoops and hurdles in mind, I did think of a couple species that would require minimal renovation and would take to the space quite well - Malayan tapir, tufted deer, long-tailed goral and/or a crane species (white-naped crane or red crowned crane, both SCBI species.) There is precedent for Malayan tapir being housed in facilities previously used for giant pandas (Calgary Zoo being a prime example) as well as sharing similar transfer chutes/gates for larger carnivores and primates (as evidenced by Louisville's Islands as well as Point Defiance's Asian Forest Sanctuary facilities, and similar facilities to carnivore/primate holding in places like Omaha's Lied Jungle). Tapir could use two of the three yards, while the third yard could house tufted deer in with one of the aforementioned crane species (depending on whether or not SCBI pinions their birds). The indoor exhibits also help alleviate any concern with avian flu, as when that inevitably hits again, *knock on wood* the cranes could theoretically be housed there with minimal issue. Initially I thought tapir would be a destructive species in terms of foliage, but if Calgary's exhibit is anything to go by, they've been able to maintain plants pretty well in that exhibit.

Ideally I'd personally love to see sun bear or Asian black bear in those spaces as well to maintain the continuity of *a* bear species utilizing the space (that'd incidentally also require minimal if not negligible amounts of renovation), but whatever the zoo decides to go with, I hope it's a good solution.
 
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Neil chace said:
I would hope red pandas is not the route they end up taking. The zoo already has an excellent red panda exhibit, and it'd be an immense waste of space to dedicate three, very large outdoor yards into an exhibit for one of the most common zoo species. Furthermore, in their current form those exhibits would require the red pandas to locomote on the ground long distances between the trees and climbing structures, which isn't really the ideal exhibit design for them. I also question if anyone would be able to see a red panda in there with how large it is, but that's beside the point.

Sloth bears could be a better choice, although that population is now at the point where space available is higher than breeding that's occurring. However, with the zoo starting to breed sloth bears in the near future, more space available to them certainly can't hurt.

As much as I hope the zoo never gets pandas again, it does seem like that is still the zoo's goal unfortunately. I do agree that they likely won't want to do major renovations to a complex they may still use in the future, but I do think it would be better to temporarily fill the space with something new to the collection (e.g. tufted deer, cranes, etc.) instead of more space to animals that don't need it.
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Nah man - the NATIONAL ZOO without giant pandas doesn't make sense in the slightest. I understand places like Memphis or Atlanta not getting giant pandas back, but National and San Diego have built up a reputation as some of the biggest/most notable zoos in the United States. Especially considering how much work the zoo does with pandas in China and also considering the strong relationship the Smithsonian institute has with the Peking and Tsinghua universities as well as panda research centers in China (e.g. Bifengxia Panda Base, Dujiangyan base of Sichuan Province's China Conservation and Research Center for the Giant Panda, etc.), I doubt they'd be giving them up. Giant pandas are National's ace in the hole.

EDIT: I'm not referring to the zoo's current set of pandas, I'm referring to giving up pandas altogether.
 
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StoppableSan said:
Nah man - the NATIONAL ZOO without giant pandas doesn't make sense in the slightest. I understand places like Memphis or Atlanta not getting giant pandas back, but National and San Diego have built up a reputation as the biggest/most notable zoos in the United States. Especially considering how much work the zoo does with giant pandas in China and also considering the strong relationship the Smithsonian institute has with the Peking and Tsinghua universities as well as giant panda research centers in China (e.g. Bifengxia Panda Base, Dujiangyan base of Sichuan Province's China Conservation and Research Center for the Giant Panda, etc.), I doubt they'd be giving them up. Giant pandas are National's ace in the hole.
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It's not really a decision the zoo can make. It's the Chinese government that makes this decision.
 
I think the nugget of truth in StoppableSan's statement is that if any zoo should recieve pandas again, it should be National. They are more identified with SNZ and SDZ than any other US facility and should be first in line if the program restarts or if any reforms make holding pandas feasible in a legal but less intensive way. Many of us want the current program to end but I don't think any of those people would argue for the pandas to end up elsewhere in the US.

I admit for someone critical of the program I want to see them before they leave.
 
StoppableSan said:
Nah man - the NATIONAL ZOO without giant pandas doesn't make sense in the slightest. I understand places like Memphis or Atlanta not getting giant pandas back, but National and San Diego have built up a reputation as some of the biggest/most notable zoos in the United States. Especially considering how much work the zoo does with pandas in China and also considering the strong relationship the Smithsonian institute has with the Peking and Tsinghua universities as well as panda research centers in China (e.g. Bifengxia Panda Base, Dujiangyan base of Sichuan Province's China Conservation and Research Center for the Giant Panda, etc.), I doubt they'd be giving them up. Giant pandas are National's ace in the hole.
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Given the current state of international affairs, and especially all the human rights abuses in China, right now I can't support ANY international zoos receiving pandas. If the direction of international relations change, then I'd absolutely love to see US Zoos get pandas back, however right now I simply can't support it.
 
JVM said:
I think the nugget of truth in StoppableSan's statement is that if any zoo should recieve pandas again, it should be National. They are more identified with SNZ and SDZ than any other US facility and should be first in line if the program restarts or if any reforms make holding pandas feasible in a legal but less intensive way. Many of us want the current program to end but I don't think any of those people would argue for the pandas to end up elsewhere in the US.

I admit for someone critical of the program I want to see them before they leave.
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Nugget of truth?
 
JVM said:
That wasn't a fitting choice of phrase, but I was basically trying to say as "the part we can all agree on" in spite of the discourse about whether the zoo should or should not try.
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Yeah, I was gonna say! :eek:
 
I see that people are saying that the zoo might get more pandas, but then if that’s possible, why are they having a whole farewell event like pandas are never coming back if it’s possible they’ll get them in the future? Personally I think it’s very unlikely they’ll get more pandas.
 
Animallover360 said:
I see that people are saying that the zoo might get more pandas, but then if that’s possible, why are they having a whole farewell event like pandas are never coming back if it’s possible they’ll get them in the future? Personally I think it’s very unlikely they’ll get more pandas.
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Just like any other zoo having a farewell event for their most popular animals. It's a chance for the public to say goodbye to them as individuals. This isn't an uncommon thing. DC = pandas. They're on par with the White House, the monuments, the cherry blossoms. Quintessentially DC.
 
NAIB Volunteer said:
Just like any other zoo having a farewell event for their most popular animals. It's a chance for the public to say goodbye to them as individuals. This isn't an uncommon thing. DC = pandas. They're on par with the White House, the monuments, the cherry blossoms. Quintessentially DC.
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Ik
I was actually at the zoo today for the first time and the whole zoo is covered with “panda”

Wonder what their marketing strategy is going to be once they’re gone lol
 
Animallover360 said:
I see that people are saying that the zoo might get more pandas, but then if that’s possible, why are they having a whole farewell event like pandas are never coming back if it’s possible they’ll get them in the future? Personally I think it’s very unlikely they’ll get more pandas.
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They would be having this farewell even if they were definitely getting more. The two bears have been here a long time and are returning to China, like all pandas do.
 
Animallover360 said:
Ik
I was actually at the zoo today for the first time and the whole zoo is covered with “panda”

Wonder what their marketing strategy is going to be once they’re gone lol
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The City is regularly covered in panda memorabilia - when Xiao was born in 2020, when the 50th Pandaversary occured last year, metro cards and the trains themselves have donned the black and white panda attire - they're quite popular. The Zoo as a whole typically tops the most popular Smithsonian site and should be just fine from a marketing standpoint. It helps to be one of the largest (and only) free Zoo's in the greater metro.
 
NAIB Volunteer said:
The City is regularly covered in panda memorabilia - when Xiao was born in 2020, when the 50th Pandaversary occured last year, metro cards and the trains themselves have donned the black and white panda attire - they're quite popular. The Zoo as a whole typically tops the most popular Smithsonian site and should be just fine from a marketing standpoint. It helps to be one of the largest (and only) free Zoo's in the greater metro.
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They also have a baby gorilla right now, which might be a bit of a draw in the short term. They've often marketed their baby animals in the past-- I remember having a metro card with lion cubs on it several years back.
 
TinoPup said:
They would be having this farewell even if they were definitely getting more. The two bears have been here a long time and are returning to China, like all pandas do.
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Backing this up -- it's partly a goodbye to the specific individual animals, not just the species, so farewell parties aren't uncommon. Lincoln Park had a farewell for Anana before the polar bear renovation, they recieved different bears afterward.
 
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