Welt der Gifte Greifswald (Closed) How to found a zoo - WdG Greifswald and WdG Salzburg

I'm surprised how this could be so misinterpreted. Only male platypus specimens have venomous spurs and would thus fit into the concept. Besides some Australian facilities, no one keeps platypuses, no matter what sex. And no one currently keeps solenodonts. Therefore, they are out of reach.

Zoo Tycooner FR said:
venomous mammals are not the main interest and he prefers working on getting new species of amphibians, reptiles and such
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No. I would keep venomous mammals or poisonous birds if I could keep them adequately and legally. However, I can't in the current situation, so I won't. And I'm neither an animal hoarder nor a "species stamp collector". I only acquire species that I can obtain legally (often captive bred specimens from animal shelters), keep adequately and that fit into the concept.
 
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Sounds nice but a bit hypocritical, after you chided me for saying the public are drawn to venomous and lethal animals, or those with an evil reputation. ;)
 
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SealPup said:
Sounds nice but a bit hypocritical, after you chided me for saying the public are drawn to venomous and lethal animals, or those with an evil reputation. ;)
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A MOLA keeper at the Fort Worth Zoo brought up a very valid point to me in a conversation. She told me that children have no natural fear of snakes, and that when they bring a snake out for people to touch the children run up to the snake without fear whilst it is the parents who stay back and or bring the children back from it. This drawing back and expressing disgust or fear builds on the child and builds their fear of snakes, which leads to problems such as people who kill anything that slithers, no matter how small, endangered, or harmless.

This relates to your post in that demonizing and running off of fear of these creatures will bring the wrong image to children who visit. You should instead rely on their beauty and lead people to admire them, not step back and see how quickly it can kill you, leading to a negative connotation that can evolve into something much worse.
 
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I am not sure this is 100% true: in the past there was debate as to whether chimps are afraid of snakes. The consensus is they instinctively are wary but it only becomes terror in suboptimal situations and at other times will express curiosity.
 
SealPup said:
I am not sure this is 100% true: in the past there was debate as to whether chimps are afraid of snakes. The consensus is they instinctively are wary but it only becomes terror in suboptimal situations and at other times will express curiosity.
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Wouldn't you say it is quite possible that chimpanzees, like humans, develop these instincts from their elders as they grow?
 
@nicholas: not really. No clients, no revenues. And I like to give people the opportunity to learn something. Despite their antics, the kids were lovely - just as the enquiring old gents this morning.
 
Batto said:
Regarding ticket sales: about 50 paying clients. Almost the same number visited on the opening day.
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Excellent :) how does this compare to the numbers you hoped to achieve at this point?

Batto said:
Once again: please refrain from thread hijacking. If you want to discuss ophiophobia, please do it in a thread on its own.
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To be fair, the topic of ophiophobia is a lot more on-topic than the previously-discussed fantasy posts which briefly hijacked this thread, given the fact there is some crossover between your aim of educating the public about toxins in general and the fact that one of the biggest factors contributing to ophiophobia is a lack of understanding *about* snakes and their venom. However, the conversation has moved on from this topic anyhow, so the issue is no longer relevant :p
 
I guess the decision whether to run the business will be based primarly on its self-sustainability - e.g., when ticket sales revenues covers all costs. Unless you will support the business with your own finances, because Batto, you have a strong salary, that is German salary. :)
 
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Updated list of kept species:

Snakes
Agkistrodon contortix and A. taylori
Aspidelaps lubricus lubricus
Bitis gabonica
Cerastes cerastes
Crotalus basilicus
Crotalus cerberus
Crotalus ornatus
Crotalus pyrrhus
Crotalus vegrandis
Euprepiophis mandarinus
Heterodon nasicus
Lampropeltis hondurensis
Lampropeltis mexicana
Lampropeltis ruthveni
Lampropeltis mexicana x ruthveni
Lampropeltis splendida
Naja nivea
Naja siamensis
Oxyuranus microlepidotus
Pantherophis "lindheimeri"
Vipera ammodytes ammodytes
Vipera berus berus

Lizards
Heloderma suspectum

Amphibians
Dendrobates leucomelas
Incilius alvarius
Phyllobates terribilis
Pleurodeles nebulosus
Rhinella marina

Fish
Corydoras sterbai

Spiders
Latrodectus hasselti
Lasiodora parahybana
Loxosceles rufescens and laeta
Nephila inaurata madagascariensis
Psalmopoeus iriminia
Pterinochilus murinus
Sicarius terrosus

Scorpions
Androctonus australis
Hadrurus arizonensis
Hadogenes bicolor
Hadogenes troglodytes
Leiurus quinquestriatus
Parabuthus villosus

Insects
Platymeris biguttatus
 
Batto said:
Scorpions
Androctonus australis
Hadrurus arizonensis
Hadogenes bicolor
Hadogenes troglodytes
Leiurus quinquestriatus
Parabuthus villosus
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Nice list of scorpions! At least in the Netherlands, very few collection go further than Pandinus imperator. Are there species in the list that are particularly challenging to keep? (I have no experience keeping scorpions beside said P. imperator)
 
Thank you. P. imperator is actually more and more replaced by Heterometrus sp. scorpions due to the first being a CITES species now and thus more expensive to acquire. Androctonus australis is really fast and Parabuthus villosus can shoot its venom, too; otherwise, lovely critters.
 
Unless you have a large amount of money to begin with, and then some means of more money coming through, you will have great difficulties. It is all very well to make a list of all the species that you want to display, but actually getting them may not be too easy. Then there is the cost of feeding all your animals - very high. Not to mention the cost of construction of the exhibits, the many ''hidden'' costs of maintenance, the many fees you will have to pay to various authorities for permissions etc.. Also consider that that more animals you have on display the more staff you need to pay plus other staff, besides keepers, such as gardeners, catering etc.. The more you grow the more expensive it gets, and it never ends! What about the cost of insurance - if you can find a company who will insure you; many will not, and those that will are very expensive. Also consider that even if you are covered by insurance that can be cancelled, usually a few days before the policy is due to be renewed. (Been there,done that!). And these are only some of the things you need to think about; there will be many more that will crop up when you least expect them. Which comes back to the money. The income from the gates etc., will probably not be enough, especially in the beginning when you need it the most. Another ongoing thing you will require is advertising, and that is a bottomless bucket that you really can't do without!
Good luck though, and I never regretted having a go, although very little money came into my pockets in the ten year experience.
 
Terry Thomas said:
Unless you have a large amount of money to begin with, and then some means of more money coming through, you will have great difficulties. It is all very well to make a list of all the species that you want to display, but actually getting them may not be too easy. Then there is the cost of feeding all your animals - very high. Not to mention the cost of construction of the exhibits, the many ''hidden'' costs of maintenance, the many fees you will have to pay to various authorities for permissions etc.. Also consider that that more animals you have on display the more staff you need to pay plus other staff, besides keepers, such as gardeners, catering etc.. The more you grow the more expensive it gets, and it never ends! What about the cost of insurance - if you can find a company who will insure you; many will not, and those that will are very expensive. Also consider that even if you are covered by insurance that can be cancelled, usually a few days before the policy is due to be renewed. (Been there,done that!). And these are only some of the things you need to think about; there will be many more that will crop up when you least expect them. Which comes back to the money. The income from the gates etc., will probably not be enough, especially in the beginning when you need it the most. Another ongoing thing you will require is advertising, and that is a bottomless bucket that you really can't do without!
Good luck though, and I never regretted having a go, although very little money came into my pockets in the ten year experience.
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Um, you have actually read this thread right?
 
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Terry Thomas said:
Unless you have a large amount of money to begin with, and then some means of more money coming through, you will have great difficulties. It is all very well to make a list of all the species that you want to display, but actually getting them may not be too easy. Then there is the cost of feeding all your animals - very high. Not to mention the cost of construction of the exhibits, the many ''hidden'' costs of maintenance, the many fees you will have to pay to various authorities for permissions etc.. Also consider that that more animals you have on display the more staff you need to pay plus other staff, besides keepers, such as gardeners, catering etc.. The more you grow the more expensive it gets, and it never ends! What about the cost of insurance - if you can find a company who will insure you; many will not, and those that will are very expensive. Also consider that even if you are covered by insurance that can be cancelled, usually a few days before the policy is due to be renewed. (Been there,done that!). And these are only some of the things you need to think about; there will be many more that will crop up when you least expect them. Which comes back to the money. The income from the gates etc., will probably not be enough, especially in the beginning when you need it the most. Another ongoing thing you will require is advertising, and that is a bottomless bucket that you really can't do without!
Good luck though, and I never regretted having a go, although very little money came into my pockets in the ten year experience.
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Terry, have you read any of this thread at all? Batto has been successfully operating this zoo for two years now...
 
Terry Thomas said:
Unless you have a large amount of money to begin with, and then some means of more money coming through, you will have great difficulties. It is all very well to make a list of all the species that you want to display, but actually getting them may not be too easy. Then there is the cost of feeding all your animals - very high. Not to mention the cost of construction of the exhibits, the many ''hidden'' costs of maintenance, the many fees you will have to pay to various authorities for permissions etc.. Also consider that that more animals you have on display the more staff you need to pay plus other staff, besides keepers, such as gardeners, catering etc.. The more you grow the more expensive it gets, and it never ends! What about the cost of insurance - if you can find a company who will insure you; many will not, and those that will are very expensive. Also consider that even if you are covered by insurance that can be cancelled, usually a few days before the policy is due to be renewed. (Been there,done that!). And these are only some of the things you need to think about; there will be many more that will crop up when you least expect them. Which comes back to the money. The income from the gates etc., will probably not be enough, especially in the beginning when you need it the most. Another ongoing thing you will require is advertising, and that is a bottomless bucket that you really can't do without!
Good luck though, and I never regretted having a go, although very little money came into my pockets in the ten year experience.
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Did you read this?......
 
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