If you're focusing on capturing invasive species, and ONLY invasive species, then that is something I can get behind. There's also a lot of invasive ungulates in Texas, so that's another place this could be done.
How to make a career (ethically) capturing and dealing wildlife in 2023?
- Thread starter La Cucaracha
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splendens
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Well I believe they are mentioning a unique case in the Amazon where demand for tropical fish is making sure that the residents there do not disrupt the river there. Not sure how many other places have cases such as this though.
Wow... I know plenty of people make money off collecting animals, but a lot of it is also done illegally and you're actually now going against captive breeding in favor of wild imports??
True, unfortunately.
That doesn't necessarily mean anything.
I'm assuming you're referring to the US, in which you're right they can be imported with permits. But there's not a huge market for them, even privately. There's plenty of them already here.
Also, if you have a business plan for wildlife rehabilitation, I'd be happy to hear it! Maybe you'd like to be partners in this profitable venture.
Absolutely not, even if I did have such a plan. You've made more than enough statements for me to know you and I do not see eye to eye on a lot of important points.
Yes that's a big thing in several parts of the Amazon basin - but it is the locals getting money from it, not someone else coming in!
Given the bird article he linked earlier I'm not entirely sure that's the case. Part of it yes, but it seems to be an overall toss.
Another potential option relating to invasive species - collecting bounties. There are people in southern Florida that make a living off of Burmese Python bounties.
La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
It's just the truth.
That community in particular largely captures fish caught in drying oxbow lakes and dry season ponds, too. Should we applaud money being taken from them?
100% agree. Now how do I bring in accounts from reputable zoos.
You and I both know wildlife rehabilitation isn't profitable, and I'm not alone ITT thinking it's ok for small, remote communities to make a sustainable living capturing fish that would die in drying ponds anyhow.
Needless to say, I'm not pro illegal wildlife trade.
Both parts?
La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
Even if I weren't to make a career in wildlife trade myself, I would still argue for the rights of indigenous people to make a living from sustainably collecting wildlife. I.e. the crocodile egg collecting in remote Northern Australia by aboriginal people.
It doesn't just benefit people; it benefits wildlife conservation.
splendens
Well-Known Member
Are you targeting herps or birds? I know migratory birds in the United States have lots of regulation.The most common wild caught species I know are herps and fish and inverts. I know of some invert hobbyists collecting some species not kept to establish colonies such as some beetles and roaches and such. But I don't see the point of capturing and selling species if they are already established in captive breeding and the demand doesn't exceed the output.
If you're choosing a wildlife or animal-related career for money, then you're choosing it for the wrong reasons. Choose a career in wildlife due to your passion, not due to what will be "profitable" because *spoiler alert*: an extremely large majority of animal-related jobs are not profitable.
The beginning of your problem is that this is not, in fact, needless to say, because what you want to do is effectively impossible without going down that criminal path.
Consider for a moment what you are proposing. For a start, it would entail a significant uptick in demand in Western zoos for wild-caught individuals - a course reversal of the last 70-odd years of developments in Western zoo culture and ethics.
Then, not only does the world need to change to fit in with your dreams, but you somehow need to be the guy they go to? Sure, it worked for Durrell, but as you say he was collecting in the days before CITES and domestic wildlife trafficking regulations, not to mention that most of his trips were to European-controlled colonies, not independent states. You would need to comply not only with the legal obligations of importing countries, but those of the post-colonial states you want to work in. Governments that have every reason to favour their own citizens for such projects.
And 'projects' is the word, because we are not going to go back to postage stamp collecting, where an animal dies and you order up another one from the Congo. Where zoos still countenance wild-caught specimens it's invariably to establish those species in captivity as an insurance population. That implies a collection that is limited in scope and time, and almost certainly will rely on local knowledge and skills - not a random Coloradan with a net and an Indiana Jones hat.
Your fantasy is not real, and it is not real for reasons the bulk of people in this community think are very good ones. I'm sorry, but that's it. If you do just want to go to the Everglades and catch Burmese pythons, good on you, have at it, and I hope it's a fulfilling and lucrative job for you. But you won't be placing them in zoos. That's the reality of the situation.
PS, you're quite right that zoos and aquaria do still source a huge number of fish and invertebrate species - especially marine species - from the wild. The ethics of that aren't quite the same as with most terrestrial vertebrates, since we are also strip-mining the seas for commercial seafood. The 'take' of marine fish for display and private aquaculture is a drop in the ocean (pun intended) by comparison.
Yes, as you can see in the post above, I did belatedly anticipate this "yes, but". If the OP wants to become a scuba diver collecting reef fish, I'm quite confident that can be done sustainably (note the word 'can' - I'm not suggesting it necessarily 'is'). But I don't think that's what they have in mind - you can't wear an Indiana Jones hat underwater.
This is one of the main reasons I struggle to support most aquariums. Unfortunately sustainable captive populations of Aquarium fish is far behind where it is for just about any other group of animals. While for zoos I'm willing to support any AZA institution, and a number of reputable non-AZA places, but for aquariums I don't view AZA accreditation as enough, I need to see a clear effort towards the increasing captive propagation of common species, such as the captive breeding work done behind-the-scenes at the New England Aquarium (my personal favorite aquarium I've visited).
La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
Herps, fish, and inverts are my main interest. Especially underrepresented species.
Saying a career can't be made legally in live wildlife trade is just untrue. The "T" in CITES is for "trade", you know? Not all animals are listed on Appendix I or by CITES at all, either.
I welcome an ethics discussion, but stick to the facts.
And what if I do want to scuba dive to collect fish? You might have a more active imagination than I do. There are still people that will argue against that ethically, funnily enough.
La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
Any reptile breeder will tell you that passion doesn't pay the bills.
Then good luck to you! Get your scuba certification and start looking for work. I don't think it will be a growth industry - I do hope that many common reef fish will be sustainably bred in captivity before too long. But I hope you have fun.
CITES includes plants and isn't just for live wildlife you know. It's also known to have a lot of issues with fake paperwork.
La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
Aquarium fish caught from some regions, ie the Red Sea, can be pretty lucrative.
Ironically, I've met enough scuba divers that think even sustainable, regulated fish collecting is "unethical". Not sure why aquatic species collecting bothers you less than terrestrial collecting, either.
It would be nice if at least more common species like red railed catfish were captive bred, but there's just not any.
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