How would you respond?

Corbett477

Well-Known Member
A question that I have had to answer more than once, and some of you likely had to as well, is "Why watch animals in zoos, or anywhere else if you can see them on TV?"


Here's another one: This question is based on a hypothetical scenario that someone in my family posed to me. Suppose an aquarium is opened to the public, which features AI-controlled robotic sea creatures that look and behave just like their sentient counterparts. Would observing these robotic creatures be any different to you than observing actual marine life?

I am interested to know your thoughts, even though the second one may seem a bit unusual.
 
A question that I have had to answer more than once, and some of you likely had to as well, is "Why watch animals in zoos, or anywhere else if you can see them on TV?"


Here's another one: This question is based on a hypothetical scenario that someone in my family posed to me. Suppose an aquarium is opened to the public, which features AI-controlled robotic sea creatures that look and behave just like their sentient counterparts. Would observing these robotic creatures be any different to you than observing actual marine life?

I am interested to know your thoughts, even though the second one may seem a bit unusual.

I’d compare it to watching sport. I enjoy watching Football and Rugby on TV, but nothing can compare to the experience of going to a stadium to watch a match live. It’s about the atmosphere as much as anything else.

With regards to animals, I’m sure most of us would love to see these species in the wild and would regard that as the ultimate. Factors such as money and time limit our ability to do that, so going to a zoo is the next best thing.

I’m not saying I don’t enjoy watching wild animals on TV, but seeing them in person will always be a more immersive experience.
 
"Why watch animals in zoos, or anywhere else if you can see them on TV?"
Why hang out with real people if you can see them on TV? Okay, that might sound silly, but it's a valid point. Seeing someone in person is not the same as watching an interview with a famous person you admire or a video of a dearly departed relative, and I don't think many people would argue it is.

To give a more serious answer - spontaneity. A documentary covers a certain set of events that is forever captured in footage, but it will always be limited to the events depicted. You footage will never change, it will be the same story every time. There is tremendous value in documentaries and this is not a put-down but only zoos and the wild offer the spontanenity of an animal's in-the-moment behavior. The experience you have watching a captive cheetah will never match watching a cheetah take down a gazelle in a documentary, for an easy example. The spontaneity, in my opinion, is crucial to the kind of human-animal connection a zoo can help create. It is a reminder wild animals are unpredictable creatures with individual personalities that manifest in different and unexpected ways. Certainly for those of us who visit a local zoo often, we will see different and unique behaviors across multiple visits.

I would also argue this spontaneity is itself a part of nature, but that's a more philosophical question.

Here's another one: This question is based on a hypothetical scenario that someone in my family posed to me. Suppose an aquarium is opened to the public, which features AI-controlled robotic sea creatures that look and behave just like their sentient counterparts. Would observing these robotic creatures be any different to you than observing actual marine life?
I like the core question here, although the tricky thing about the example is marine life wold be especially hard to capture in this form, I would think?

I have one of those little light-up aquariums in my room and I've used little aquarium screensavers as a kid. There's a charm to seeing all the little fish across the screen, definitely. I think of it as pure entertainment though - again, there is no spontaneity, the images are not real animals displaying natural behaviors. This is a much simplified example, of course. Robotics and AI are several steps closer but they still would not feel quite "it" to me. I think we would have to assume the AI models would be based on observed by human behavior -- but that might not capture the full breadth and complexity of a species. What if there are behaviors we've not learned still to be seen? What if incorrect research or bad observations are included that cause unnatural behaviors? Mixing behavior or different, related species to fill gaps? Consider, for example, a robotic gorilla that acts savage because it was fed too many observations of silverbacks fighting, or baboons that look like one species but emulate another's behavior.. There is also the opposite probability -- a natural behavior that deviates from expectations could be blamed on engineers and the facility, because some might expect the AI to be better than reality. I think, ultimately, these sets of expectations would dull spontaneity but also in some ways dull and remove the valuable educational component of learning about the individual species, because you couldn't strictly expect 'real' bears to behave the same way an animatronic bear would anymore.

That said, I think solutions like this could be interesting for species that cannot be kept in captivity - a sculpted or robotic Indri at a Madagascar complex, for example, would be a good way to educate guests about a unique species that can't be displayed. I also think an elephant statue or animatronic that does not need the massive amounts of space actual elephants demand might be a good alternative for some low space city zoos.
 
Why hang out with real people if you can see them on TV? Okay, that might sound silly, but it's a valid point.
I think a better example along those lines would be why go see a singer or band in concert when you can just watch one of their music videos on tv? That's more or less a direct equivalent to the zoo-vs-tv question.
 
Seeing digital screens play animal clips or animations cannot even compare to seeing a real life moving and breathing creature. There is no excitement, no realism, no wonder about seeing something projected onto a screen. You never truly know how it actually is, even if it’s realistically presented. To see a real animal is a truly magical experience which cannot ever be duplicated by a screen.
 
That said, I think solutions like this could be interesting for species that cannot be kept in captivity - a sculpted or robotic Indri at a Madagascar complex, for example, would be a good way to educate guests about a unique species that can't be displayed. I also think an elephant statue or animatronic that does not need the massive amounts of space actual elephants demand might be a good alternative for some low space city zoos.
While I believe statues of animals and other artistic representations of animals do have a place in zoos, and for a long time they have indeed had a place in zoos, I think animatronics of living species might take it a step too far. In the eyes of visitors, what makes an animatronic elephant any different than an animatronic triceratops? While it sounds great for smaller zoos on paper to be able to highlight these animatronic animals, it'd have to be done really carefully to ensure it doesn't confuse or distract from the zoo's educational goals, or lead to mis-messaging. I could see some narrow cases where they'd be appropriate- for example if Houston wished to include some animatronic blue-footed boobies or marine iguanas inside the Galapagos exhibit, but in most cases I suspect they'd do more harm than good.

If zoos embraced animatronic animals, it'd also give us a big new question to tackle: "I went to Zoo X and saw an animatronic elephant, why does your zoo keep living elephants when you could just keep a robot?", or "If your zoo will keep an animatronic elephant, how come you won't replace all your animals with animatronics?"

Here's another one: This question is based on a hypothetical scenario that someone in my family posed to me. Suppose an aquarium is opened to the public, which features AI-controlled robotic sea creatures that look and behave just like their sentient counterparts. Would observing these robotic creatures be any different to you than observing actual marine life?
Yes, observing robots would be different, and the biggest reason is that zoos have immense benefits in the realm of research that would not be the same on an animatronic animal. I'm on a research team doing behavioral monitoring research at the Buffalo Zoo, so when I'm there observing animals it is usually to collect behavioral data. I can collect data on living gorillas and make real conclusions as a result as to their behavior. If I did the same with robotic gorillas, the data would not be able to translate onto real animals and their behavior.

Speaking more broadly than my experience, many of the goals of zoos cannot be achieved with robotic animals. Oregon Zoo and San Diego Zoo have been doing groundbreaking work in recent years on polar bear metabolisms, with the information directly tying in to work being done in the field. If Oregon Zoo replaced their polar bears with a robot, they'd no longer be able to research the metabolic rates and therefore are no longer contributing their expertise to field conservation in the same way. Numerous zoos are breeding red wolves and Mexican grey wolves that are involved in re-introduction efforts. You can't breed robot wolves and reintroduce them to the wild, it simply isn't the same thing. Having real biodiversity in zoos is important, not just for visitors, but also for conservation and scientific research that is bettering our understanding of animals- both in zoos and in the wild.
 
A question that I have had to answer more than once, and some of you likely had to as well, is "Why watch animals in zoos, or anywhere else if you can see them on TV?"


Here's another one: This question is based on a hypothetical scenario that someone in my family posed to me. Suppose an aquarium is opened to the public, which features AI-controlled robotic sea creatures that look and behave just like their sentient counterparts. Would observing these robotic creatures be any different to you than observing actual marine life?

I am interested to know your thoughts, even though the second one may seem a bit unusual.

As other people mentioned it's a very different experience seeing an animal in real life vs on TV. There are smells and sounds not always picked up on TV (smelling a Binturong is a far richer experience from someone just telling you it's like popcorn etc). Animal fur, skin and feathers look different in real life than on the TV. And animal sizes are also often distorted.

Animals also do things in the wild or in a zoo that you can see for yourself vs having your experience wholly curated by someone else.

Plus...well enjoyment. I remember taking a photo of a robin at Whipsnade near the tiger enclosure (cold day, tiger asleep, so look at everything instead of nothing) and some bloke asked me why I'd pay to come to the zoo to take a picture I could get in the garden. Because its, you know, fun.

Going to the zoo for me is also more than just seeing animals, it's going outside, enjoying the weather, nature, the journey there can be fun...it's certainly not going to be replicated as a day out sitting on the couch.

As for the robot question, in my view it is entirely different. I'd go to the robotics tank to observe what people can make machines do. I'd go to an Aquarium with real fish to see what nature and evolution have created (and yes people have collected them and constructed the exhibits, but there's something more than just us going on).
 
While I believe statues of animals and other artistic representations of animals do have a place in zoos, and for a long time they have indeed had a place in zoos, I think animatronics of living species might take it a step too far. In the eyes of visitors, what makes an animatronic elephant any different than an animatronic triceratops? While it sounds great for smaller zoos on paper to be able to highlight these animatronic animals, it'd have to be done really carefully to ensure it doesn't confuse or distract from the zoo's educational goals, or lead to mis-messaging. I could see some narrow cases where they'd be appropriate- for example if Houston wished to include some animatronic blue-footed boobies or marine iguanas inside the Galapagos exhibit, but in most cases I suspect they'd do more harm than good.

If zoos embraced animatronic animals, it'd also give us a big new question to tackle: "I went to Zoo X and saw an animatronic elephant, why does your zoo keep living elephants when you could just keep a robot?", or "If your zoo will keep an animatronic elephant, how come you won't replace all your animals with animatronics?"


Yes, observing robots would be different, and the biggest reason is that zoos have immense benefits in the realm of research that would not be the same on an animatronic animal. I'm on a research team doing behavioral monitoring research at the Buffalo Zoo, so when I'm there observing animals it is usually to collect behavioral data. I can collect data on living gorillas and make real conclusions as a result as to their behavior. If I did the same with robotic gorillas, the data would not be able to translate onto real animals and their behavior.

Speaking more broadly than my experience, many of the goals of zoos cannot be achieved with robotic animals. Oregon Zoo and San Diego Zoo have been doing groundbreaking work in recent years on polar bear metabolisms, with the information directly tying in to work being done in the field. If Oregon Zoo replaced their polar bears with a robot, they'd no longer be able to research the metabolic rates and therefore are no longer contributing their expertise to field conservation in the same way. Numerous zoos are breeding red wolves and Mexican grey wolves that are involved in re-introduction efforts. You can't breed robot wolves and reintroduce them to the wild, it simply isn't the same thing. Having real biodiversity in zoos is important, not just for visitors, but also for conservation and scientific research that is bettering our understanding of animals- both in zoos and in the wild.
You made a solid point in response to the second question. One that I hadn't considered. I often forget that most zoos/aquariums have a purpose beyond entertaining guests. Gotta give you props for that.
 
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Why hang out with real people if you can see them on TV? Okay, that might sound silly, but it's a valid point. Seeing someone in person is not the same as watching an interview with a famous person you admire or a video of a dearly departed relative, and I don't think many people would argue it is.

To give a more serious answer - spontaneity. A documentary covers a certain set of events that is forever captured in footage, but it will always be limited to the events depicted. You footage will never change, it will be the same story every time. There is tremendous value in documentaries and this is not a put-down but only zoos and the wild offer the spontanenity of an animal's in-the-moment behavior. The experience you have watching a captive cheetah will never match watching a cheetah take down a gazelle in a documentary, for an easy example. The spontaneity, in my opinion, is crucial to the kind of human-animal connection a zoo can help create. It is a reminder wild animals are unpredictable creatures with individual personalities that manifest in different and unexpected ways. Certainly for those of us who visit a local zoo often, we will see different and unique behaviors across multiple visits.

I would also argue this spontaneity is itself a part of nature, but that's a more philosophical question.


I like the core question here, although the tricky thing about the example is marine life wold be especially hard to capture in this form, I would think?

I have one of those little light-up aquariums in my room and I've used little aquarium screensavers as a kid. There's a charm to seeing all the little fish across the screen, definitely. I think of it as pure entertainment though - again, there is no spontaneity, the images are not real animals displaying natural behaviors. This is a much simplified example, of course. Robotics and AI are several steps closer but they still would not feel quite "it" to me. I think we would have to assume the AI models would be based on observed by human behavior -- but that might not capture the full breadth and complexity of a species. What if there are behaviors we've not learned still to be seen? What if incorrect research or bad observations are included that cause unnatural behaviors? Mixing behavior or different, related species to fill gaps? Consider, for example, a robotic gorilla that acts savage because it was fed too many observations of silverbacks fighting, or baboons that look like one species but emulate another's behavior.. There is also the opposite probability -- a natural behavior that deviates from expectations could be blamed on engineers and the facility, because some might expect the AI to be better than reality. I think, ultimately, these sets of expectations would dull spontaneity but also in some ways dull and remove the valuable educational component of learning about the individual species, because you couldn't strictly expect 'real' bears to behave the same way an animatronic bear would anymore.

That said, I think solutions like this could be interesting for species that cannot be kept in captivity - a sculpted or robotic Indri at a Madagascar complex, for example, would be a good way to educate guests about a unique species that can't be displayed. I also think an elephant statue or animatronic that does not need the massive amounts of space actual elephants demand might be a good alternative for some low space city zoos.
Everyone so far has presented sound responses. But your answers, particularly to the first question, are very well thought out.
 
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No, it would not. I am more of a zoo person than an aquarium person, but for me what draws me to animal attractions and makes me enjoy the experience so much is knowing that what I am observing are real, sentient beings. Knowing it is all pretend would prevent me from having the same experience.
 
I think a better example along those lines would be why go see a singer or band in concert when you can just watch one of their music videos on tv? That's more or less a direct equivalent to the zoo-vs-tv question.
That's the classic example and a perfectly reasonable alternative answer by itself. I think it is a much easier example for people to understand generally.

I disagree that it is more direct in the context of my original post though, because a musical performance at a concert is not spontaneous behavior, which was the major theme I was focusing on, so I chose my less defined example for a reason. ;)

While I believe statues of animals and other artistic representations of animals do have a place in zoos, and for a long time they have indeed had a place in zoos, I think animatronics of living species might take it a step too far. In the eyes of visitors, what makes an animatronic elephant any different than an animatronic triceratops? While it sounds great for smaller zoos on paper to be able to highlight these animatronic animals, it'd have to be done really carefully to ensure it doesn't confuse or distract from the zoo's educational goals, or lead to mis-messaging. I could see some narrow cases where they'd be appropriate- for example if Houston wished to include some animatronic blue-footed boobies or marine iguanas inside the Galapagos exhibit, but in most cases I suspect they'd do more harm than good.

If zoos embraced animatronic animals, it'd also give us a big new question to tackle: "I went to Zoo X and saw an animatronic elephant, why does your zoo keep living elephants when you could just keep a robot?", or "If your zoo will keep an animatronic elephant, how come you won't replace all your animals with animatronics?"
Houston is actually exactly the kind of example in my mind - marine iguana are a critical part of the Galapagos habitat ecosystem and representing them via artificial means feels like a great way to integrate them into an exhibit and feel more comprehensive, considering the species is not available for captivity anywhere with a reputation. I view it similarly as the easter eggs at River's Edge in Saint Louis, such as a sculpted King Cobra. This is also why I used Indri as an example, an animal I think most zoochatters would agree and accept cannot be held in captivity to good health. I was intending to suggest a narrow case. The elephant example was sloppy in comparison but I still think it's a viable solution for facilities that don't have the space to provide elephants with positive welfare, given they are immensely popular animals. I did not mean to suggest this become a widespread practice which is why I only wrote it into my post after explaining the many reasons I would not find artificial animals preferable. :D
 
A question that I have had to answer more than once, and some of you likely had to as well, is "Why watch animals in zoos, or anywhere else if you can see them on TV?"


Here's another one: This question is based on a hypothetical scenario that someone in my family posed to me. Suppose an aquarium is opened to the public, which features AI-controlled robotic sea creatures that look and behave just like their sentient counterparts. Would observing these robotic creatures be any different to you than observing actual marine life?

I am interested to know your thoughts, even though the second one may seem a bit unusual.
How would I know that they were robotic and not real?
 
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