Huge Elephant Exhibits in U.S. Zoos

I believe 7 acres is as big as a zoo should build. I really don't think it is necessary to build exhibits larger than 2 acres as long as the exhibits provide the mental stimulation an elephant needs. At the Miami Metrozoo, where I was today the African elephants have two paddocks. One is 25,000 square feet and the other is 22,000. They can be combined to make one large outdoor yard. Both yards are very grassy and the keeper told me they need to be mowed every other week. All the elephants there are in very good condition and none show stereotypic behaviors except when anticipating going into the barn in the evening. To me this is a good example of a great elephant exhibit that is not that large. I think this shows that zoos don't really need to build enormous exhibits.
 
As soon as they get more animals, NC will have the best LA exhibit in the U.S. It is larger than San Diego's and Oakland's, has better viewing opportunities than DAK and the exhibit seems to run into the 40+ acre African plains exhibit which gives it a feeling of being in Africa.

I wondered if NC ever considered letting the elephants have access to the 40 acre enclosure and have a mix species exhibit like Boras zoo in Sweden. They could then use the current 7 acre exhibit as their bull yard (which would put them in the running for best elephant exhibit in the world).
 
loxodonta said:
As soon as they get more animals, NC will have the best LA exhibit in the U.S. It is larger than San Diego's and Oakland's, has better viewing opportunities than DAK and the exhibit seems to run into the 40+ acre African plains exhibit which gives it a feeling of being in Africa.

I wondered if NC ever considered letting the elephants have access to the 40 acre enclosure and have a mix species exhibit like Boras zoo in Sweden. They could then use the current 7 acre exhibit as their bull yard (which would put them in the running for best elephant exhibit in the world).
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I have yet to visit NC Zoo, but I don't think it being one more acre than SDWAP(after the exhibits are connected) is that big of a deal when we are talking about that large of a space. Besides, isn't that 7 acres divided into two exhibits separated by a moat or something like that?

Based on what I've seen from visiting SDWAP many times and seeing pics of NC, I would think SDWAP has a large advantage regarding viewing, but not sure. SDWAP also has the huge plus in my opinion of consistently having babies and young elephants. NC is more lush though.
 
mweb08 said:
I have yet to visit NC Zoo, but I don't think it being one more acre than SDWAP(after the exhibits are connected) is that big of a deal when we are talking about that large of a space. Besides, isn't that 7 acres divided into two exhibits separated by a moat or something like that?

Based on what I've seen from visiting SDWAP many times and seeing pics of NC, I would think SDWAP has a large advantage regarding viewing, but not sure. SDWAP also has the huge plus in my opinion of consistently having babies and young elephants. NC is more lush though.
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Not only is it more lush and naturalistic looking than SDWAP, it is next to the Plains exhibit which makes it possible to see the elephants in the for ground and rhinos and antelope in the background. Viewing is also good at NC.
 
loxodonta said:
Not only is it more lush and naturalistic looking than SDWAP, it is next to the Plains exhibit which makes it possible to see the elephants in the for ground and rhinos and antelope in the background. Viewing is also good at NC.
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Yeah, that's a big plus, especially the lush part. I'd argue with you about the naturalistic part, because from what I've seen it doesn't really look like an african savana, rather it's basically a clearing in a North Carolina forest.

You didn't respond to the size part, and if the exhibit is two 3.5 acre enclosures that can't be connected, I'd give the advantage in terms of size to SDWAP once it becomes 6 acres.

Hopefully I'll visit the zoo sometime somwhat soon to judge for myself. When are they getting more elephants?
 
Naturalistic is the exact word I would use to describe the exhibit. The zoo used elements that were already there to make the exhibit look nice. The natural trees and grass are what make it so lush. You want a realistic natural habitat. I prefer lots of grass and natural trees because it adds more enrichment for the residents even though it is not the savannah.

I think the extra acre is a lot considering some elephant exhibits aren't more than acre. Miami zoo has one of my favorite African elephant exhibits and the two yards combined are not even an acre. Same with RWP zoo.

I prefer the two seprate yard because that would allow for two seperate family herds if they wanted or a family herd and a bachelor herd. There also may be away to attach the yards that I was not aware of.

My only complaint about NC, as I have said before, is the lack of elephants. The five they have now seem to get lost in the exhibit. I do not know when they plan on receiving more.
 
loxodonta said:
Naturalistic is the exact word I would use to describe the exhibit. The zoo used elements that were already there to make the exhibit look nice. The natural trees and grass are what make it so lush. You want a realistic natural habitat. I prefer lots of grass and natural trees because it adds more enrichment for the residents even though it is not the savannah.

I think the extra acre is a lot considering some elephant exhibits aren't more than acre. Miami zoo has one of my favorite African elephant exhibits and the two yards combined are not even an acre. Same with RWP zoo.

I prefer the two seprate yard because that would allow for two seperate family herds if they wanted or a family herd and a bachelor herd. There also may be away to attach the yards that I was not aware of.

My only complaint about NC, as I have said before, is the lack of elephants. The five they have now seem to get lost in the exhibit. I do not know when they plan on receiving more.
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I'm not saying I prefer it to look like a African savanna over what the NC looks like, I'm just saying a North Carolina forest clearing is not a naturalistic enclosure for African elephants.

Well regardless if the extra acre is a lot or not, each individual only has access to 3.5 acres, which will be much less than the ones at the SDWAP will have. And they are able to keep their adult male with the females.
 
mweb08 said:
I'm not saying I prefer it to look like a African savanna over what the NC looks like, I'm just saying a North Carolina forest clearing is not a naturalistic enclosure for African elephants.

Well regardless if the extra acre is a lot or not, each individual only has access to 3.5 acres, which will be much less than the ones at the SDWAP will have. And they are able to keep their adult male with the females.
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It sort of is a naturalistic enclosure for elephants considering African elephants live in open grasslands. Also it is to my understanding that the two yards at San Diego will not be combined to form one large yard, but be separate yards. Personally I think it is much better to have a few smaller yards than one large yard. This makes it easier to maintain the exhibits because it reduces the impact the elephant has on the enclosure and allows the elephants to remain outside when keepers are placing enrichment, food, and cleaning the yards.
 
BlackRhino said:
It sort of is a naturalistic enclosure for elephants considering African elephants live in open grasslands. Also it is to my understanding that the two yards at San Diego will not be combined to form one large yard, but be separate yards. Personally I think it is much better to have a few smaller yards than one large yard. This makes it easier to maintain the exhibits because it reduces the impact the elephant has on the enclosure and allows the elephants to remain outside when keepers are placing enrichment, food, and cleaning the yards.
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But an African savana does not really look like a NC forest clearing.

I'd prefer it to have the ability to be one large enclosure that can be split into smaller ones, like at EO. I would assume that would be the case at the SDWAP, but maybe not. It doesn't make sense to not have them able to be combined imo since all the elephants are used to being together.
 
mweb08 said:
But an African savana does not really look like a NC forest clearing.

I'd prefer it to have the ability to be one large enclosure that can be split into smaller ones, like at EO. I would assume that would be the case at the SDWAP, but maybe not. It doesn't make sense to not have them able to be combined imo since all the elephants are used to being together.
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The yards at SDWAP have gotten pretty barren though after 30 years of elephants trampling them down in a very dry climate. This would allow them to grow grass back and make the enclosures lush again if they had two separate yards. Also rather than cram 12+ elephants into a tiny holding yard while the keepers service the large yard, they could keep the elephants in one of the large yards while they service the other. 3 acres for an elephant exhibit is still enormous so it isn't really necessary to combine the yards to make one gigantic yard.
 
BlackRhino said:
The yards at SDWAP have gotten pretty barren though after 30 years of elephants trampling them down in a very dry climate. This would allow them to grow grass back and make the enclosures lush again if they had two separate yards. Also rather than cram 12+ elephants into a tiny holding yard while the keepers service the large yard, they could keep the elephants in one of the large yards while they service the other. 3 acres for an elephant exhibit is still enormous so it isn't really necessary to combine the yards to make one gigantic yard.
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They can still have the options of doing that if they have both enclosures connected, but with the ability to separate them. Which is obviously what has to be constructed anyway. I just don't see why you'd never want the whole thing to be available to all the elephants, you can still do that at times, and do what you're talking about.
 
mweb08 said:
They can still have the options of doing that if they have both enclosures connected, but with the ability to separate them. Which is obviously what has to be constructed anyway. I just don't see why you'd never want the whole thing to be available to all the elephants, you can still do that at times, and do what you're talking about.
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Now I see what you mean. I agree that would be the best way to do it.
 
I find it funny that the Nashville Zoo's elephant exhibit cost 3.5 million (I just read this today) and looks just like an African savanna while EO cost around 45 million and is barren as any exhibit I have seen. Now I understand, EO has other species, but still, the elephant habitat alone at EO, easily cost 7 times more than Nashville's yet Nashville's is so much better.

I still think that size is definitely not always the key to the best elephant exhibit. Our exhibit in Cleveland will total 2.25 acres worth of outdoor yard (two 1 acre ranges and a quarter acre heated night yard), but it will have a lot of grass, trees, and other substrates which I think is much more important than just one massive exhibit space.
 
Dan said:
Did not mean to upset you, BlackRhino or in any way try to diminish the current efforts made at US zoos. As I wrote, I applaude them!

I just wanted to celebrate the fact that this elephant enclosure, almost 50 years old, in a small Swedish city was a forerunner.

And as an interesting technical fact - just as reduakari points out - only one of the new exhibits in The US has a single space as big as the one in this little Swedish city zoo.

Since you, BlackRhino, is obviously familiar with my writing here at ZooChat, you will know that size of enclosures at zoos is a very important question to me. (I know that there are several other important factors, but let us not not go into that debate right here...).

So I take every chance that I get to raise this particular question. Please bear with me...
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Isn't it against the law to have small enclosures in Sweden?
 
BlackRhino said:
I find it funny that the Nashville Zoo's elephant exhibit cost 3.5 million (I just read this today) and looks just like an African savanna while EO cost around 45 million and is barren as any exhibit I have seen. Now I understand, EO has other species, but still, the elephant habitat alone at EO, easily cost 7 times more than Nashville's yet Nashville's is so much better.

I still think that size is definitely not always the key to the best elephant exhibit. Our exhibit in Cleveland will total 2.25 acres worth of outdoor yard (two 1 acre ranges and a quarter acre heated night yard), but it will have a lot of grass, trees, and other substrates which I think is much more important than just one massive exhibit space.
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While I have nothing kind to say of what the photos show of EO, I will point out that because of how Nashville constructed their exhibit (mostly in-house) it cost far less than the same thing would have cost anywhere else. They are a very resourceful lot!

Also, they use keeper led activity to keep the animals occupied rather than humongous hideous elephant busy-box "trees"
 
Looking at the original list of 25 huge elephant exhibits at the beginning of this thread, I think that perhaps half of them are already open or will be open to the public in the next 6 months (the start of the 2010 summer season). Of the 3-acre elephant exhibits in American zoos on this thread, are there any of them that are in danger of not being constructed?
 
snowleopard said:
Looking at the original list of 25 huge elephant exhibits at the beginning of this thread, I think that perhaps half of them are already open or will be open to the public in the next 6 months (the start of the 2010 summer season). Of the 3-acre elephant exhibits in American zoos on this thread, are there any of them that are in danger of not being constructed?
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Only San Diego's is actually open. Dallas is the only one opening in the Spring. Los Angeles next fall (2010). Cleveland's will be done in Spring 2011, and will be around 2 acres not 3 although I still think it will be one of the best out of all the exhibits opening. The National Zoo's is opening Summer 2011, although half of the project is complete and the elephants will have access to the completed yards. OKC's is opening sometime in 2012. The others there is no clear timeline as to when they are opening. I suspect Houston's will open once the African Forest project is complete as the giraffes need to move out before the elephant exhibit can be expanded more.
 
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