Hybrid Animals

Fossa dude

Fossa dude

Well-Known Member
I have seen many sites on hybrid big cats and other animals but was wondering if anyone else has seen in zoos or heard of other strange hybrid animals.



I would also like to hear opinions on hybrid animals. If you do like it or if you don't like it. Do you know of any zoos that have a large number of hybrids, specialize in hybrids, and what zoos have homed the first hybrid of a certain species.

Heres a qucik list to get started:

1) Liger

2) Zonkey

3) Pizzly



Fossa dude:)
 
I do not like it at all.

We do not know what the animals are going to need because we cannot research how they live in the wild. Hybrid animals have no conservational value. They have no educational value.

The only plus side I can see is that it attracts visitors, and therefore revenue, which the zoo can use to fund conservation work. But it's just a freak show and I don't think the ends justify the means.
 
I think zoos shouldn't reject them though, because they have just as much value as a pure bred animals. There are many hybrids forced to live subpar lives because "reputable zoos" wont accept them.

And another common hybrid is macaws. They are mixed all the time.
 
Depends on the species and purpose...

For me, it depends on the species and purpose behind hybrid breeding.

Example: Hybrids happen in falconry all the time, thanks to captive breeders. Some common mixes are peregrine/merlin (commonly called a 'perlin'), Gyr/Saker (durability of a gyr/speed and maneuverability of a saker), and gyr/peregrine. This is usually done to bring out certain traits in a given bird, particularly if the falconer involved will be hunting a very specific type of prey.

Hybrids are often done with macaws as well, as has already been pointed out. Some common crosses are scarlet/military ('Scarletary'), and I've also seen a blue-and-gold/military cross. Why, exactly, this is done in the macaw world, I have no clue (unless it's to bring out specific temperaments...?)

In any case, I have no problem at all with either of the above. What I do have an issue with is hybrid breeding just for the sake of creating something to draw crowds.

If you're trying to bring out specific personality traits, hunting skills, or whatever, fine. Hybridize away! But stay away from hybridizing just because you can. I don't see it serving any real purpose.

Now, with that said -- As for the hybrids that are already Out There, let's give them as good a life as we possibly can, for however long they live, just like we should any other critter.

Happy travels.
 
I do not think/feel the subject should be reduced to a like it/not like it level. IMO hybrids - when we are aware of subspecific separate conservation units - is ethically and morally unsustainable in a serious conservation focussed zoo (which again IMO is what any serious zoological facility should strive to achieve).

There is another level where hybrids are "used" as a focal point to bring in the punters/crowds. As observed before - even in this case - I reject it on conservation grounds as serious zoos should to present the natural world as it is and not a contrived image of what we have managed to make it by breeding techniques.

Thirdly, I would not be so light either on hybridisation to achieve certain traits in wildlife as has been suggested. If any of these hybrids are (accidently or on purpose) released into the wild environment they themselves pose a genetic pollution risk to existing relevant/valid pure-bred conservation units represented in the natural state (as is the case with say gyr/saker hybrids in the Middle East and Central Asia).

Fourth, there is the issue of ((non-)intentional release of non natives in the wild. Case in point here are f.i. domesticated mink from farms (as promulgated by animal welfare extremists) which has had devastating effects on European populations across the entire Continent for the native European mink species.

Just some thoughts ... :cool:
 
kc7gr said:
Hybrids are often done with macaws as well, as has already been pointed out. Some common crosses are scarlet/military ('Scarletary'), and I've also seen a blue-and-gold/military cross. Why, exactly, this is done in the macaw world, I have no clue (unless it's to bring out specific temperaments...?)
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Hybridisation seems far more common with Macaws than with other parrots and I sometimes wonder why. It usually involves crosses between the four 'common' large species- BlueGold/ Scarlet/Red& Green/Military. Is it done deliberately, or are many of these rather unfortunate-looking hybrids produced almost accidentally by 'mixed' breeding pairs of two different species?

I believe some of the earliest hybrid macaws were produced in American birdparks in the past and given the name 'Catalina' macaws.. This practise should certainly be frowned on and discontinued to safeguard the pure Macaw species IMO.
 
KCZooFan said:
I think zoos shouldn't reject them though, because they have just as much value as a pure bred animals. There are many hybrids forced to live subpar lives because "reputable zoos" wont accept them.

And another common hybrid is macaws. They are mixed all the time.
Click to expand...

Given that zoo placements are expensive and in short supply, it seems sensible to reserve them for housing individuals who can contribute to breeding programmes and conservation education.
 
Waterfowl are notorious for their promiscuity and some very strange hybrids result - there are photos in the Gallery of the 'gooders' at Martinmere (goosander x eider). At one time there was a special Hybrid Pen at Slimbridge.
I think that in some cases macaw hybridisation resulted from smaller zoos keeping two macaws of different species as companions (they have always been expensive birds), without realising that they were a pair as they were hard to sex by traditional methods.
I have seen very few hybrid mammals in zoos, except for the zeedonks at Colchester and at Chester many years ago (they were in the end pen of the Antelope house, where a pair of warty pigs are now). I also have photos of polar x brown bear hybrids at Thoiry in the early 70s.

Alan
 
Sorry I haven't been on in a while but there is also the fact that Hybrids such as the Liger die young, more easily susceptible to disease and can't breed. Female Ligers and Female Tigons can breed but males can't. Also I've herd of the Leopon ( Leopard + Lion ) . They breed a litter of babies in japan that lived but are know stuffed and mounted.


Has anyone else herd of the Piebald Lynx or Blue Lynx? It's a different color mutation of a canadian lynx.

I have also herd of the Pizzly being the only hybrid animal to breed out in the wild on its own naturally. Can anyone confirm on this and do you know any others?

Thanx
Fossa dude
 
Mammal, and other animal, hybridisation in the wild is much more common than was once recognised. Many chipmunks in North America hybridise, as do blue whales with other whales (possibly grey, can't remember), and a range of other cetaceans also interbreed. Often where the ranges of two closely related species meet or overlap, a 'hybrid zone' exists. In some cases the hybrids may be more succesful than the parents, equally succesful, or less succesful. If less succesful, hybridisation will be selected against, leading to more complete species differentiation. Where hybrids are more succesful, they will be more common.

The commonality of hybridisation challenges the Biological Species Concept, which states that a species is a population which is reproductively isolated from all other populations. Given this definition, polar and grizzlies, if the hybrids could produce viable offspring (not sure) would have to be considered the same species. This definition is inadequate in its current form, and scientists spend a large amount of time debating replacements.

IMO: In zoos, hybrids have no conservation value, and should not be breed, and only kept if have been bred (accidentally or in the past), are capable of living happy lives, and cannot be kept elsewhere (eg. hybrid orang-utan at Auckland Zoo). From a research perspective, hybrids were previously useful for determining how distinct taxa were, but this can now be done using modern mlecular methods. I believe they have some educational value, especially if displayed near paqrent taxa, and with appropriate signage, but only if this does not affect the spaces available for endangered species with actual conservation value.
 
1) What in the world is a pizzly?

2) Color morphs, such as the piebald canadian lynx, have nothing to do with hybridization.

3) As for cross-species hybrids, I think a distinction should be made between wild and domestic animals. For wild animals, I see no purpose and I cannot imagine why any accredited zoo would have one. For domestic animals, it can be beneficial. Mules are perhaps the most common, combining the better temperament of the horse with the sure footedness of the donkey. Bengal cats, though they are controversial, I personally think provide a useful purpose in creating a cat that is safe to have around the house (thanks to their domestic cat parentage) with the looks of a wild cat (thanks to their leopard cat parentage), thus replacing the need for people to have purely wild cats (which rarely make good pets).
 
zooboy28 said:
Pizzly = Polar Bear X Grizzly Bear
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I've heard of Brown Bear x Polar Bear cubs produced in captivity(e.g. at Washington Zoo) in the past, but not in the wild. However, the two species are apparently very closely related-Polar having diverged from the Brown in 'recent' zoological time.
 
There was one shot in the wild. DNA test was made cause it resolved whether the shooter should be punished for shooting a protected animal or not. As the animal was found to be a hybrid, he was set free.
 
gentle lemur said:
At one time there was a special Hybrid Pen at Slimbridge.
I think that in some cases macaw hybridisation resulted from smaller zoos keeping two macaws of different species as companions (they have always been expensive birds), without realising that they were a pair as they were hard to sex by traditional methods.
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I remember the hybrid pen at Slimbridge. They had so many waterfowl in those days there were bound to be hybrids. To anyone who admires waterfowl, the hybrids (IMO) usually look very ugly but also interesting as their parentage is often very clear too.

Macaws- I think that is how most of the hybrids produced here have occurred. I believe they have less avicultural value than 'pures' so are only likely to be produced accidentally in the way you describe. Whereas I think in the US they used to be bred freely, perhaps even deliberately, by those bird parks and parrot farms in places like Florida.

I have seen a few primate hybrids- the Bristol 'Mentawi' macaque(a moor macaque hybrid?) was one. Another was a Mandrill/macaque hybrid somewhere. One of the German zoos(Hanover?) used to have a whole group of 20+ Drill/Mandrill hybrids- a studbook holder's nightmare!

Also one Liger- Vincennes Zoo, Paris, 1960's.
 
gentle lemur said:
Waterfowl are notorious for their promiscuity and some very strange hybrids result - there are photos in the Gallery of the 'gooders' at Martinmere (goosander x eider). At one time there was a special Hybrid Pen at Slimbridge.
I think that in some cases macaw hybridisation resulted from smaller zoos keeping two macaws of different species as companions (they have always been expensive birds), without realising that they were a pair as they were hard to sex by traditional methods.
I have seen very few hybrid mammals in zoos, except for the zeedonks at Colchester and at Chester many years ago (they were in the end pen of the Antelope house, where a pair of warty pigs are now). I also have photos of polar x brown bear hybrids at Thoiry in the early 70s.

Alan
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Have you got the photos in the gallery? I would be interested in seeing them! Are they bigger than the parent species?
 
How's this for a hybrid, the Pere David's Deer. The best genetic research I've seen is that the Pere David's Dere is a Pleistocene hybrid between Cervus canadiensis and I believe Przewalskium albirostris (although it might be another lesser known Chinese deer I don't have my reference in front of me).

Others are the
Cambodian Banteng (Bos sauveli x Bos javanicus)
Jackson's Hartebeest (Alcelaphus buselaphus lelwel x Alcelaphus buselaphus cokii)
 
jbnbsn99 said:
How's this for a hybrid, the Pere David's Deer. The best genetic research I've seen is that the Pere David's Dere is a Pleistocene hybrid between Cervus canadiensis and I believe Przewalskium albirostris (although it might be another lesser known Chinese deer I don't have my reference in front of me).
Click to expand...

Tell me more...:) Can you post any links to your references?
 
Vulpes said:
Have you got the photos in the gallery? I would be interested in seeing them! Are they bigger than the parent species?
Click to expand...

Just search the gallery for 'gooders'. They are a good size, but so are both parents; they look remarkably 'natural' for a combination of such different species.

Alan
 
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