Hybrid Animals

I think the issue with Wikipedia is that 80% of it's "information" can be deemed untrue. It's a highly unreliable source and anyone can edit it to say anything.
 
Edie said:
ALL white tigers are thought to be descended from a father-daughter pairing.
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Just to set the record straight;

The majority of White tigers are descended from the White tigers from Rewa, which were indeed produced by a father/daughter mating and then further subsequent inbreeding to maintain and increase the number of White Tigers.

But a few others have been produced independently, such as those born to two normal tigers in an American circus, unrelated as far as is known, to the Rewa strain. The two lines have almost certainly crossed through exchange, but more importantly, almost all the White tigers in zoos outside India, certainly those in Europe and America, are now of impure stock due to crossing with Amur tigers.

I am not sure the 'Golden Tabby' colour phase has ever been seen in the wild, and may well be an artifact purely of captive breeding.
 
Arizona Docent said:
1) For wild animals, I see no purpose and I cannot imagine why any accredited zoo would have one.

I was recently at a well respected AZA accredited zoo (I will refrain from mentioning the name of the zoo since it does not advertise the hybrid) with a Jaguar/Leopard hybrid. Their signage merely said "leopard". When I asked the keeper the subspecies, I was told that this animal was one of more than 30 exotic felines that were confiscated in California a few years ago. I know of several zoos that have hybrid sumatran/bornean orangutans, but do not breed them.

I personally admire the zoos for giving a home to unwanted, non-breedable hybrids.
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@polar bear - If the sign said leopard, how did you know it was a jaguar/leopard cross?

Also, as a cat fanatic, I would be interested to know if you have a photo and which zoo it was. Can you PM me with this?
 
Arizona Docent said:
Here is a pretty good explanation and history of white and golden tigers. From the cat rescue shelter Tiger Haven in Tennessee (USA).

Tiger Haven
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I'm sorry, I don't think that theory can stand up to much scrutiny. The central concept that white Tigers are a genetic throwback to times when they roamed snowy areas doesn't stand up to an Occam's razor scrutiny:

1. Why have all known white Tigers sightings and experience come from a Bengal background where whiteness confers no advantage?

2. If the theory was true we'd surely be expecting snowy areas (Siberia, etc.) to be throwing up statistically significant numbers of white individuals (if being white conferred any advantage) rather than none so far (to my knowledge) especially when, by common concensus, they've populated those areas the longest.

Then again maybe it's right and the Tigers are so well camoflaged no-one can see them in the snow:rolleyes::D
 
ArizonaDocent: The exhibit sign just said "leopard" with no subspecies identified. He was in the exhibit with another feline, who was much smaller and who had the usual leopard spot pattern. Since his coat had an unusual spot pattern for a leopard, I waited until a keeper came and asked what subspecies he was. She told me about the confiscated California cats. The zoo also has 2 jaguars in another exhibit.

Attached is a photo of the hybrid.
 
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If as we are told that most of the animals on the earth were killed by the big bang and only a few reptiles and aquatic creatures survived then could this make most of the animals we regard as pure, hybred as there were no mammals left after the big bang
what came first hybred or pure
 
adrian1963 said:
If as we are told that most of the animals on the earth were killed by the big bang and only a few reptiles and aquatic creatures survived then could this make most of the animals we regard as pure, hybred as there were no mammals left after the big bang
what came first hybred or pure
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who told you that? Perhaps you should do some investigation into the Big Bang theory ;)
 
adrian1963 said:
If as we are told that most of the animals on the earth were killed by the big bang and only a few reptiles and aquatic creatures survived then could this make most of the animals we regard as pure, hybred as there were no mammals left after the big bang
what came first hybred or pure
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Im sorry but this makes no sense! obviously there were no animals killed by the big bang as the big bang created the universe! A long time afterwards animals would have evolved and overtime there is probably a chance cross over of hybrid animals would have happened.
Stu
 
@ PolarBear - Thanks for the photo - it clearly shows what looks like a leopard except towards its back the spot pattern goes to the jaguar type rosettes (solid spots inside the larger circular spots).

Do you know the closed place in California the rescued cats came from? I am assuming it was Tiger Rescue in Colton (which I actually visited right before the scandal broke).



I also saw a so-called leopard at Big Cat Rescue (Florida) years ago that I suspect had some jaguar blood because it had a few spots with smaller spots inside like this one.
 
adrian1963 said:
apologises I meant when the dinosaurs were allegedly killed by the little stone from the sky
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the event that killed off the dinosaurs, whatever that event may have been, didn't result in "only a few reptiles and aquatic creatures" surviving. Broadly speaking the die-offs were fairly selective, eg most bird and mammal groups known to have been in existance at the time survived quite well. Some aquatic groups vanished, others appeared largely untouched. There is a great deal of research available on the internet with regards to this if you are interested in learning more.
 
Arizona Docent:

The keeper did not remember the name of the facility in California, but she seemed to think that the hybrid arrived 3-4 years ago. The Colton facility was closed down in 2003. You may very well be right and the keeper may be wrong about the timing. It's also possible that the hybrid went to another sanctuary somewere from Colton and moved to the zoo 3-4 years ago.

I thought some more about my conversation with the keeper. It is also possible that she said 2003 or 4 and all I heard was "3 or 4"
 
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Shorts said:
1. Why have all known white Tigers sightings and experience come from a Bengal background where whiteness confers no advantage?
According to that theory it would be the same with White Lions, they should occur on Snow-covered mountain tops not open savanahs.

The real answer (IMO) being its simply a gene that expressed itself in these areas where these mutations occurred.
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Chlidonias said:
who told you that? Perhaps you should do some investigation into the Big Bang theory ;)
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[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Bang_Theory]The Big Bang Theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
:D

As for Arizona Docent's link: following that line of thinking, every animal in colder climates should have white fur (funny enough, most of them don't; maybe they also just "moved recently there"-like the Amur tiger:D)...Alas, leucistic and albino specimens in general should look for some snowy corners of the world for camouflage...:rolleyes:

In regard to jagleopards: I remember seeing one at Erfurt zoo in the late 1980's/early 1990's.
 
Shorts said:
I'm sorry, I don't think that theory can stand up to much scrutiny. The central concept that white Tigers are a genetic throwback to times when they roamed snowy areas doesn't stand up to an Occam's razor scrutiny:

1. Why have all known white Tigers sightings and experience come from a Bengal background where whiteness confers no advantage?

2. If the theory was true we'd surely be expecting snowy areas (Siberia, etc.) to be throwing up statistically significant numbers of white individuals (if being white conferred any advantage) rather than none so far (to my knowledge) especially when, by common concensus, they've populated those areas the longest.

Then again maybe it's right and the Tigers are so well camoflaged no-one can see them in the snow:rolleyes::D
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I studied Evolution and Genetics for years during my higher education. My undergraduate dissertation was in the field of micro-evolution under one of the leading evolutionary biologists in the world (it was stressful but fantastic time).

The nonsense you have posted here certainly doesn’t stand up to scrutiny (as you put it).

1. If white tigers are a “genetic throwback” (I’m definitely not suggesting they are) then the current range of Bengal Tigers has nothing to do with the genes persistence. A gene does not need to offer an advantage to species to persevere within a population.

2.1 Who can say when the mutation occurred? From your comment you seem to understand that Siberian (sorry they will always be Siberian to me) tigers are the basal population. Is it not possible that the white gene mutation/introduction occurred AFTER the two populations became independent?

2.2 Siberia is not snow covered year round. Again for arguments sake and purely to highlight how weak you post is: Perhaps the selection pressure is against white colouration (because, even in summer, vegetation is much sparser in East Asia than the Indian Sub-continent) driving the gene towards extinction in this sub-population?


Some additional points:

Why are you assuming the selection pressure acting on colouration would be camouflage? There are other factors which drive selection of an animal’s colour, two well established examples are:
Airborne parasite deterrence
Mate choice

“Hybrid Speciation” as its known is a rare but proven occurrence.



Chlidonias said:
who told you that? Perhaps you should do some investigation into the Big Bang theory ;)
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How conceited. Didn’t you recently remark how you liked to help people?



If anyone here would like to discuss evolution, genetics or speciation at anytime I’d be happy to make myself available in the chat.
 
Many thanks Chlidonias I may have got my lines crossed as we had been lagering it for a while and will do a little research as I don't really know much about history.
But on the hybred thread I was wondering if thier are any hybreds on the planet that could be used to bring back extinct animals from seperating thier dna or am I still under the lager thought
 
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