(I Wish I Was In) California

[sooty mangabey]

What did you think of the Indoor Penguin exhibit (Which has Emperor Penguins) and the outdoor Magellanic penguin exhibit? I was there two weeks ago and it was nice to see the old polar bear exhibit being replaced with Harbor Seals at the Wild Arctic exhibit.Did you see the Guadalupe fur seals?

Yes, penguin thing is impressive. Very dark though, and the glass is hard to see through due to condensation. It featured in a classic 1980s TV show featuring a man - Jeremy Cherfas - with a bubble perm and a big 'tache being very enthusiastic. It did, thus, inspire a sort of Proustian rush.

No - didn't see the fur seals - and wish I had! Where are they?

 

[African Grey]

The three Guadalupe fur seals (2.1) are located by the California Sea lion and Harbor Seal exhibit which is outside by the Sea lion show.

 

[sooty mangabey]

why do you disapprove of the word "awesome" which, frankly, is an awesome word?
.

I quite like the word itself - it's more its inappropriate application to things that could never, really, be said to inspire awe. For example, "that's an awesome Barbary sheep enclosure". It goes back to that genuinely impressive ability to be enthused by everything.

However I can only come to the conclusion that you are indeed referencing Harry Potter, and ... well, that just seems far too low-brow and popular.

HP is great! I've only read one of the books, and usually fall asleep when my children watch the films, but anything that encourages reading, as they have palpably done , is good. And J K Rowling seems to be an excellent person. And, as someone who works in a boarding school, I like the positive PR for our industry (although my school is not, quite, Hogwarts).

 

[FunkyGibbon]

I quite like the word itself - it's more its inappropriate application to things that could never, really, be said to inspire see. For example, "that's an awesome Barbary sheep enclosure". It goes back to that genuinely impressive ability to be enthused by everything.

Surely Prague's Barbary sheep enclosure comes close?
How about "Emerging above the canopy in Masoala Hall was a truly awesome experience"?

 

[sooty mangabey]

Day 4 - Thursday - Part 3 - Living Coasts Discovery Centre, Chula Vista

So, before fur seal and Harry Potter digressions, and before eating some Mexican food while a chanteuse belted out Tina Turner tunes, I was feeling a bit depressed by Seaworld, its cheesiness, its $17 parking fee, its commodification of animals. So, I headed south.

Again, I'm not sure whether Chula Vista is a separate entity, or a suburb of San Diego, but is about as close as you can get to the border without crossing. I'd not heard of this place until a friend mentioned it last week - and, never being one to turn down a complicated journey through suburban sprawl if a caged animal awaits at the end of it, I thought it might be the best way to cleanse my palate, post-Seaworld. And it was!

This is not going to challenge the hegemony of the other San Diego collections, but it is very nice, a little bit odd, and has a charm that I thought was wholly lacking at the infinitely-larger Seaworld (of which that is the last mention for today). It advertises itself as being 10 minutes from San Diego city centre, which it would be if you had a fast car and a cavalier attitude towards speed limits, and were driving at 3.00 am. During the afternoon, the freeway crawls all the way. Nontheless, it's not far to go.

It's a tricky place to get to: you park, and then await a shuttle bus that drives you the last mile or so through a nature reserve. When you arrive, there's a very nice building - well-designed, stylish, of a piece with the environment in which it is placed - and a few outdoor bits. The species on display are all local (or at least invasive): a few reptiles (including a very nicely done green turtle pool at the entrance); some fish (usual suspects, and some small sharks and rays in one of those outdoor-but-covered exhibits); a number of rehabilitated birds (mainly raptors); a walk-through wader aviary. This last includes a black oystercatcher (a rarity for a European zoo-goer) and - the place's stars - some light-footed ridgeway's rails. These last are given the full Conway's bullfrog treatment, a real thing is made of them. And they look great!

I only had an hour, before the last shuttle bus back to the car park. I could happily have spent longer.

 

[sooty mangabey]

This'll sound odd, but might I have seen a fossa being walked on a lead, like a dog, at the WAP? I had just tried to take an illegal shortcut down a path with a "no entry" sign, and could have sworn I winessed this unlikely apparition. But before i could gather my thoughts it had gone, and the "docent" I asked didn't have a Scooby what I ws talking above (see earlier comments). Or am i going bonkers?

 

[DavidBrown]

Yes, penguin thing is impressive. Very dark though, and the glass is hard to see through due to condensation. It featured in a classic 1980s TV show featuring a man - Jeremy Cherfas - with a bubble perm and a big 'tache being very enthusiastic. It did, thus, inspire a sort of Proustian rush.

Your review of Sea World was much more entertaining than actual Sea World.

I visited Sea World once more than 20 years ago because a friend gave me a free pass. I hated it so much (aside from the penguin exhibit, which was once the greatest penguin exhibit in the world and still is pretty good) that I have never gone back, despite visiting San Diego multiple times a year.

Thanks for all the reviews. I haven't made it to the Chula Vista nature center. Sounds like it is worth the trip.

 

[DavidBrown]

This'll sound odd, but might I have seen a fossa being walked on a lead, like a dog, at the WAP? I had just tried to take an illegal shortcut down a path with a "no entry" sign, and could have sworn I winessed this unlikely apparition. But before i could gather my thoughts it had gone, and the "docent" I asked didn't have a Scooby what I ws talking above (see earlier comments). Or am i going bonkers?

San Diego walks several weird things through their parks - wolves, cheetahs, golden retrievers (not weird to see a dog being walked in real life of course, but it is in a zoo) - so a fossa is within the realm of probability.

 

[zoomaniac]

@sooty mangabey.
As a fan of the SeaWorld Parks IN GENERAL, I deeply regrett that you had a bad (awful) day there. Although I can understand your arguments on one side, I allow myself on the other side to ask you if you was well prepared for your visit and have had the right expectations.
Don't get me wrong (and no offense), but looking at sources like youtube and SW website, you see that the focus at SW is on entertainment. And their show are on a extremly high level of quality, but could - in this point I am absolutely agree with you - have more educational elements. As long as animals don't suffer, I see animal shows as a very good device for behavioral enrichment.

 

[zoomaniac]

Oops, saw that I did a lot of typos. But what is happen with the "EDIT" feature?

 

[snowleopard]

@sooty mangabey I've been greatly enjoying this thread, partly because I've visited all of the places before (except Living Coasts - but I'll be there this weekend!) and partly because it is intriguing to see a British perspective on things like the commercialism at SeaWorld.

Odds n' sods:

- I've been to SeaWorld San Diego on 3 occasions and I think that the place is honestly AWESOME for kids. If my own children could choose anywhere with animals in the whole world I think that they'd opt for SeaWorld. Why trudge around the dusty San Diego Zoo when you could run around in the 2-Acre Sesame Street play zone, or see Killer Whales up close, or get soaking wet, or see how much food the average American can stuff into their mouth? For a zoo enthusiast SeaWorld has a great shark tank, a packed sea turtle, habitat, loads of small aquariums, marine mammals like walruses and beluga whales, the huge penguin complex, etc. It is well worth visiting at least once in a zoo nerd's lifetime and is leagues ahead of Six Flags Discovery Kingdom, a similar theme park establishment in California.

- I've known you for many years now and you once wrote extensively in Zoo Grapevine magazine about how Berlin Zoo was the greatest zoo in the world...or something to that effect. You have long been an admirer of the Berlin Zoo/Tierpark combination and so the obvious question that I have now is how San Diego compares to the German classics. Did the massive Scripps/Owens/Parker aviaries sway you in favour of the American zoo or not? Is Berlin still your favourite or is it San Diego? Or put it this way: which combo is better? Would you go with San Diego Zoo/Safari Park or the Berlin Zoo/Tierpark? Tough questions my friend! Maybe one part of the world that could trump them both would be Singapore...

- The Light-Footed Ridgeway Rails at Living Coasts Discovery Center are apparently the only captive specimens on the planet...but I'm fairly certain you knew that already.

 

[ANyhuis]

I've been to SeaWorld San Diego on 3 occasions and I think that the place is honestly AWESOME for kids. If my own children could choose anywhere with animals in the whole world I think that they'd opt for SeaWorld.

I have to totally agree with SnowLeopard on this one! You (Sooty) were there by yourself, as a middle-aged adult. You were not looking for entertainment, but for an animal zoo. Sea World is in the market (southern California) competing with Disneyland, Knotts Berry Farm, Universal Studios, and other top rank theme parks. Like SnowLeopard's kids, my 4 children all loved every visit to the 4 Sea World parks (and we went to all of them). We went to nearby Sea World Ohio (now closed) at least 5 times and it was always a super thrill for them! Even the one time I went to Sea World (CA) without my kids, I had my cousin and her kids join me. It's just not a park for an adult man by himself. Secondly, I'm just guessing, but maybe the humor there (which you found very unfunny) is more aimed at Americans and thus doesn't make sense to non-Americans like you. Last week I was in London and went to see the play "Annie" with my (adult) daughter. That play is set in New York and the script is definitely written for Americans. Some of the jokes were totally funny to my daughter and me, but they went right over the heads of the mostly British audience.

Is Berlin still your favourite or is it San Diego? Or put it this way: which combo is better? Would you go with San Diego Zoo/Safari Park or the Berlin Zoo/Tierpark? Tough questions my friend! Maybe one part of the world that could trump them both would be Singapore...

I personally think San Diego Zoo is a slam dunk better than any other single zoo in either Berlin or probably even Singapore. But if we're talking "combos" (Berlin's 2, San Diego's 2, or Singapore's 3, or 4), then Singapore is the easy winner! I was there a month ago to confirm this.

 

[FunkyGibbon]

I personally think San Diego Zoo is a slam dunk better than any other single zoo in either Berlin or probably even Singapore. But if we're talking "combos" (Berlin's 2, San Diego's 2, or Singapore's 3, or 4), then Singapore is the easy winner! I was there a month ago to confirm this.

I would far rather visit Berlin than Singapore. Although both have a tendency towards small enclosures, and Singapore's best bits are unmatched anywhere, Berlin's collection and history do it for me.

 

[sooty mangabey]

Well, before I go any further: during today's visit to SD Zoo (of which more later) I was enjoying the black mangabey / Angolan colobus enclosure (what a combination of species!), vaguely aware of the live music emanating from the front of the zoo (as part of their late opening, they have a variety of bands playing - at least three, I think: a rather jolly New Orleans-style jazz band; an "African" group who wear "ethnic" clobber and overuse the word "jambo"; and a "rock" band, of the sort that someone might hire to play the hits of the 90s at their 40th birthday party). Anyway, it was the last of these whose noise was drifting across the zoo, when, suddenly, I realised they were playing the song "Lovesong" by pop-goths The Cure (also from sunny Sussex, by the way).

.

I love The Cure, but I'm struggling to think of a more incongruous, less likely song to hear being played at a Californian zoo on a summer's evening. Another reason to absolutely love this place! Now, if Seaworld had had the dolphins dancing to a Siouxsie and the Banshees track, I might have liked the place rather more.....

 

[sooty mangabey]

My comments on Seaworld have engendered a fair bit of discussion - here, and in various personal mesages I have been sent. Just to reiterate, I don't think animal welfare is compromsied at the park. That's not my issue. It's just that it's so incredibly naff.

Allen - who knows a bit about zoos-for-entertainment - put it like this....

You were not looking for entertainment, but for an animal zoo.

It's just not a park for an adult man by himself.

...and I think this gets to the nub of the issue. I was looking for entertainment - but my idea of entertainment, and that of those who relish their time at SW, is apparently very different.

I think my issue is two-fold - half personal, half broader.

The broader issue is that I just feel there is a loss of dignity in having dolphins reduced to playthings, and "dancing" to loud disco tunes. If all the shows were like the killer whale one, I'd probably feel very differently.

The personal thing: I was born and grew up in one slightly downmarket seaside resort, and have subsequently spent most of my life living in others. The smell of candy floss and the sound of people having fun on over-priced rides is in my DNA and - grinch-alert - I hate it!

I was once criticised, on this very website, by a poster with a rhino-themed user name who has not been seen for a considerable while, for being a killjoy because I commented on a photo of a playground, saying that I didn't really think children really needed such things in zoos. I guess, I just think fun can be had looking at barbets, or watching maned wolves, or smelling binturongs.

And I also think that anywhere that displays wild animals should be suitable for anyone - not just for fun-seeking families who are choosing between an animal park and a theme park.

I'm just guessing, but maybe the humor there (which you found very unfunny) is more aimed at Americans and thus doesn't make sense to non-Americans like you.

I disagree on this one. There are things which are wholly, undeniably, absolutely different between our two countries - turning left on a red light, for example, or men wearing tee-shirts tucked into their shorts - but I don't think humour is different. On a personal level, the things that make me laugh hardest - films, TV shows, people - are more often American than British (or from anywhere else).

I think the divide isn't an Atlantic one. It's just a taste one. There are plenty of people in the UK who find that sort of comedy amusing. It's just that I'm not one of them. Likewise, I'm pretty certain that many of the American things that make me laugh would leave you (Allen) and others absolutely cold - the TV series Family Guy, for example, is very probably not on heavy rotation in the Nyhuis household, but I love it! Vive la difference!

 

[sooty mangabey]

@sooty mangabey.
I allow myself on the other side to ask you if you was well prepared for your visit and have had the right expectations.
Don't get me wrong (and no offense), but looking at sources like youtube and SW website, you see that the focus at SW is on entertainment.

Yes, of course, I did go to SW knowing what I was in for (but I was still curious to see what it was realy going to be like) - the only such place I've previosuly visited was Marineland in Antibes, France, but that was in 1982 and, I think, on a rather different scale!

I very much wanted to see the animals there - the killer whales and pilot whales in particular - and I'm very glad I did so. I was also keen to see how the whole experience worked. And now , having done so, I need not go again!

Oops, saw that I did a lot of typos. But what is happen with the "EDIT" feature?

Yes - this is a thing! I'm typing this on a computer with no spell check. When I see the errors I make, I feel ashamed and want to change them - but, alas, too late!

 

[Shellheart]

@sooty mangabey I
Odds n' sods:

- I've been to SeaWorld San Diego on 3 occasions and I think that the place is honestly AWESOME for kids. For a zoo enthusiast SeaWorld has a great shark tank, a packed sea turtle, habitat, loads of small aquariums, marine mammals like walruses and beluga whales, the huge penguin complex, etc. It is well worth visiting at least once in a zoo nerd's lifetime and is leagues ahead of Six Flags Discovery Kingdom, a similar theme park establishment in California.

I definitely agree with this assertion. Furthermore, from an animal rescue perspective SeaWorld is hard to beat, with over 30,000 animals having been rehabilitated by the company. It's also produced some vital research on orcas in their collaboration with NOAA (though their decision to ban breeding has thrown the future of this research out the window). Is it a bit gaudy and overkill? Definitely... Something certainly needs to be done about the sea lion show, but there's also a lot to be appreciated.

 

[sooty mangabey]

You have long been an admirer of the Berlin Zoo/Tierpark combination and so the obvious question that I have now is how San Diego compares to the German classics. Did the massive Scripps/Owens/Parker aviaries sway you in favour of the American zoo or not? Is Berlin still your favourite or is it San Diego?

I personally think San Diego Zoo is a slam dunk better than any other single zoo in either Berlin or probably even Singapore. But if we're talking "combos" (Berlin's 2, San Diego's 2, or Singapore's 3, or 4), then Singapore is the easy winner! I was there a month ago to confirm this.

I would far rather visit Berlin than Singapore. Although both have a tendency towards small enclosures, and Singapore's best bits are unmatched anywhere, Berlin's collection and history do it for me.

Interesting question! Not been to Singapore. Would love to do so, and hopefully will, sooner rather than later. Suspect it might not be wholly my thing - but really want to see it!

I've been visiting the Berlin zoos for a quarter of a century; San Diego's zoos for three days. Thus Berlin is, to quote Rodney Stewart, a bit more in my heart, in my soul.

And you can't divorce the zoos from the city. Berlin has hundreds of years of history and human culture. San Diego doesn't. San Diego has exceptional sunshine. Berlin doesn't.

I've not been to Berlin since the moving on of the old director and - minority opinion here, I know - I rather dread the way in which his passing, several years ago, will have impacted the zoos.

That said, nothing compares to spending several hours in a big old zoo house - and SD doesn't really have such houses (apart from the surprisingly excellent reptile house). But then, the three big walk-through aviaries at the zoo are just something else! I think they'd have to be my favourite zoo exhibits, anywhere, now.

So, as you can see, I'm not really plumping for one or the other. They're both brilliant!

 

[sooty mangabey]

Day 5 - Friday - San Diego Zoo (again)

A second day at the zoo. Another 9.00 in the morning entry, 9.00 in the evening departure. Still got bits I haven't seen properly.

Today's highlights included the run of oldish aviaries behind the polar bear area. Easy to miss. Unshowy. But brilliant. Beautifully planted, and with some wonderful species within. In the eight cages was, probably, as good a bird collection as can be seen in all of some very well-regarded zoos. The fire-tufted barbet was one highlight amongst many.

The bonobo enclosure is wonderful, too: simply, but really well-done, and with some excellent supporting exhibits.

I rode on the cable car, which was brilliant (see - I can do fun!).

Not even SD is perfect, however. I attended the animal show, thinking I might get a pangolin, or a clouded leopard. Instead, we had a macaw, a pig, a (very big) dog, two New Guinea singing dogs, and a cheetah which was led around on a lead. Oh - and a cheerful fellow singing "Wimoweh" to the (ecstatically happy) audience. Oh well....

 

[Tim Brown]

There`s rather too much for me to comment on in this thread as a whole,suffice it to say that to have two good friends (also Snow Leopard,if i can bear to call people i actually know by these user names... which always strike me as rather silly) touring California at the same time,and never actually meeting,has drawn me to the internet more than otherwise would be the case(with all due respect to Zoochat which can be invaluable).I too think Sooty(ouch!) was rather hard on Sea World,yes it is probably more theme park than zoo,but some of its exhibits are top-drawer such as the penguins(I was fortunate to meet the conceiver of the exhibit,Frank Todd, once and actually went inside with the penguins,I remember the cold environment gave me a headache!)And there are some very rare animals too( they had the afore-mentioned Ridgeway`s Rails,or Light-footed Clapper Rails if you prefer, behind the scenes when i was there).Yes, there is a lot of it that leaves a cynical Brit shaking his or her head in dismay at the sheer commerciality ,but it is that element which ensures that it is all there at all.You simply look the other way if you dont want it.The good far outweighs the bad in my opinion. As for great zoo destinations then New York would have to up there...and Tokyo looks fascinating/amazing.... as i am hoping to find out in a few months.