The_UltimateBea
Well-Known Member
A zoological institution, for profit or not, can only survive if it makes money. Better that some research continues than the company dies all together. Sadly, PETA has forced seaworld's hand.
(I Wish I Was In) California
- Thread starter sooty mangabey
- Start date
I have to wonder what part of Long Beach you're staying in if you find it to be a dump. Certainly the industrial areas are less than attractive, as industrial ports do tend to be, but as a whole Long Beach isn't that bad... I also have to wonder, have you been to or seen Los Angeles itself? I'm sure if you had, Long Beach would have been comparatively the most pristine city you've ever seen.
The_UltimateBea
Well-Known Member
I've been to 7...
Wait - it was a song?!
@sooty mangabey I have loads of questions for you but I will likely email you in late July when I get back and things settle down after our respective California trips.
However, I do have one main question for you. Where did you eat when you spent all of those 12-hour days at San Diego Zoo?
I've enjoyed spreading my eating habits around at that zoo: Albert's Restaurant up by the gorillas and bonobos (fine-dining with waiters), Treetops Cafe (in the same area but a couple of levels higher), Poppy's Patio in the Children's Zoo, some sandwich terrace place near the front entrance, and even Sabertooth Grill in Elephant Odyssey. Did you just wolf down packets of crisps (called chips here in North America) from dodgy vending machines?
Also, did you splurge on merchandise at the enormous gift shops or did you resist the lure of purchasing some zoo memorabilia? Are you going to go back to Hogwarts in England with a "I Visited the World's Greatest Zoo" t-shirt?
However, I do have one main question for you. Where did you eat when you spent all of those 12-hour days at San Diego Zoo?
I've enjoyed spreading my eating habits around at that zoo: Albert's Restaurant up by the gorillas and bonobos (fine-dining with waiters), Treetops Cafe (in the same area but a couple of levels higher), Poppy's Patio in the Children's Zoo, some sandwich terrace place near the front entrance, and even Sabertooth Grill in Elephant Odyssey. Did you just wolf down packets of crisps (called chips here in North America) from dodgy vending machines?
Also, did you splurge on merchandise at the enormous gift shops or did you resist the lure of purchasing some zoo memorabilia? Are you going to go back to Hogwarts in England with a "I Visited the World's Greatest Zoo" t-shirt?
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
So, my week in California comes to a close. I write this while I'm 25,000 feet above Las Vegas, courtesy of Norwegian Air (and that, incidentally, is about as close as ever I'd want to get to Vegas, but that's another story).
But, before anything else, what of today's / yesterday's zoo-ish activity?
Day 7 - Sunday - part 1 - Long Beach Aquarium of the Pacific
So, was it good enough to justify spending the night in a motel in a car park, surrounded by purveyors of fast food (all closed) and hard drugs (very much open for business)? Well yes, I suppose so. It was very impressive. People who like this sort of thing will, I am sure, love this sort of thing. EverythIng a big aquarium needs is there: big fish tanks, touch pools, some excellent smaller tanks, a lorikeet walk-through. But as I wandered from display to display, just ahead of the Tsunami of visitors (top tip for any future visitors: get there for opening time, because it gets very crowded, very quickly), as I wandered around, a little listlessly, I found myself thinking, as I so often do in such places, that aquariums would be great if it weren't for all the fish. I think this is why i lke Wroclaw's Afrykarium so much: it's an aquarium with aardvarks in it (and some fish as well). So, here, it was the sea otters, the seals and sealions, the penguins and, best of all, the alcids, which really did it for me. For the rest - really good, but give me an out-dated wire-mesh cage with a tamarin lurking in the gloom, any day. And luckily, that was what I would soon be getting....
But, before anything else, what of today's / yesterday's zoo-ish activity?
Day 7 - Sunday - part 1 - Long Beach Aquarium of the Pacific
So, was it good enough to justify spending the night in a motel in a car park, surrounded by purveyors of fast food (all closed) and hard drugs (very much open for business)? Well yes, I suppose so. It was very impressive. People who like this sort of thing will, I am sure, love this sort of thing. EverythIng a big aquarium needs is there: big fish tanks, touch pools, some excellent smaller tanks, a lorikeet walk-through. But as I wandered from display to display, just ahead of the Tsunami of visitors (top tip for any future visitors: get there for opening time, because it gets very crowded, very quickly), as I wandered around, a little listlessly, I found myself thinking, as I so often do in such places, that aquariums would be great if it weren't for all the fish. I think this is why i lke Wroclaw's Afrykarium so much: it's an aquarium with aardvarks in it (and some fish as well). So, here, it was the sea otters, the seals and sealions, the penguins and, best of all, the alcids, which really did it for me. For the rest - really good, but give me an out-dated wire-mesh cage with a tamarin lurking in the gloom, any day. And luckily, that was what I would soon be getting....
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
Day 7 - Sunday - part 2 - Santa Ana Zoo
A disproportionate number of European zoo nerds have been here, due to its being so close to the road from L.A. to San Diego. It's a rum old place. I rather like having a small zoo in the corner of a park - it seems very *American* - and, even more, I like having a zoo where there is a compulsion to always have 50 monkeys. But the display of those primates is for the large part very poor. And the rest of the zoo is a pretty mixed bag: the relatively new pampas thing is good, but it's not exactly bulging with species, while the "Amazon" aviary, again, suffers from not having much in it (I found myself thinking of the dozen or so cock-of-the-rocks, swooping around San Diego's Parker Aviary - an unfair comparison, of course). Glad to have seen Santa Ana, but I'm not now going to be spending the next 5 years dreaming of a return visit.
A disproportionate number of European zoo nerds have been here, due to its being so close to the road from L.A. to San Diego. It's a rum old place. I rather like having a small zoo in the corner of a park - it seems very *American* - and, even more, I like having a zoo where there is a compulsion to always have 50 monkeys. But the display of those primates is for the large part very poor. And the rest of the zoo is a pretty mixed bag: the relatively new pampas thing is good, but it's not exactly bulging with species, while the "Amazon" aviary, again, suffers from not having much in it (I found myself thinking of the dozen or so cock-of-the-rocks, swooping around San Diego's Parker Aviary - an unfair comparison, of course). Glad to have seen Santa Ana, but I'm not now going to be spending the next 5 years dreaming of a return visit.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
Day 7 - Sunday - part 3 - Orange County Zoo.
This place was a real surprise. I only went because it was so close to Santa Ana (about 20 minutes away), and because I wanted to see a coyote (I don't think I have ever seen one before....). I'm really glad I did so. This is really quite a charming place, crow-barred into a corner of a large park (which, excitingly, has signs warning about the presence of mountain lions). They say that the animals are all either rescues or confiscations. Certainly, the only exotics - a serval, some sulcatta tortoises, some pet shop reptiles - fall into the latter category. The locals include a number of things rarely if ever seen in Europe - as well as the pair of coyote, there are kit foxes, Mule deer, bobcats, opossum, white-nosed coati - as well as some more commonly-seen things (pumas, black bears and so on). The display doesn't exactly place this zoo as a rival to the Arizona Sonora Desert Museum - there's a lot of chainlink fencing - but the animal areas are landscaped as nicely and as imaginatively as those at Santa Ana, on the whole, *aren't*, and the educational signs are excellent and, as such, this was a very pleasant way on which to end my Californian sojourn.
This place was a real surprise. I only went because it was so close to Santa Ana (about 20 minutes away), and because I wanted to see a coyote (I don't think I have ever seen one before....). I'm really glad I did so. This is really quite a charming place, crow-barred into a corner of a large park (which, excitingly, has signs warning about the presence of mountain lions). They say that the animals are all either rescues or confiscations. Certainly, the only exotics - a serval, some sulcatta tortoises, some pet shop reptiles - fall into the latter category. The locals include a number of things rarely if ever seen in Europe - as well as the pair of coyote, there are kit foxes, Mule deer, bobcats, opossum, white-nosed coati - as well as some more commonly-seen things (pumas, black bears and so on). The display doesn't exactly place this zoo as a rival to the Arizona Sonora Desert Museum - there's a lot of chainlink fencing - but the animal areas are landscaped as nicely and as imaginatively as those at Santa Ana, on the whole, *aren't*, and the educational signs are excellent and, as such, this was a very pleasant way on which to end my Californian sojourn.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
Some random odds and sods:
I would have stayed in the Queen Mary, but, given that I was due to arrive pretty late, I didn't think I could justify the expense. A nice clean, easy-to-find motel, with some pleasant dining opportune cities nearby, would serve my needs perfectly!
Yes - I'm sure I was unlucky! Other parts of the city looked pretty nice; just near to my lovely motel, I took a wrong turn and ended up down a dead-end where half a dozen ladies were waiting. I don't think they were very interested in discussing the ways in which San Diego Safari Park displays its shoebills, sadly.
Yes - exactly that. A few no-shows from the labelled animals elsewhere, but not that many, and nothing that made me feel unwell to have missed it: fossa, brush-tailed bettong.... Eventually saw klipspringer on what seems like the 37th time I'd passed their enclosure.
A week is long enough to be away from the family, and the dog! And whilst tribute acts aren't really my thing, my village of Upper Dicker (population: less than 100) is hosting a music festival at the weekend, at which the headliners will be the band of Peter Hook (ex of New Order and Joy Division). It could be almost as good as the band at the San Diego Zoo!
Eating: as mentioned before, I usually avoid zoo food, for reasons of cost, taste and time. However, at San Diego I did eat, and found the food passable - even if, as with most American food, it's pretty heavy: pizza covered in gloopy cheese, salad covered in creamy dressing, and so on. I tried the Sabretooth place (nice patio, overlooking the elephants) and the Treetop one (very nice, shady balcony). Best location, by far, was the pond-overlooking one at the WAP. They've also just opened a new restaurant, overlooking the Africa area, which is beautiful and really does look like something you'd find in the Serengeti. Having consulted my financial adviser, I did have a drink there - and it was lovely!
Merchandise? Of course I purchased a very stylish Africa Rocks tee-shirt for myself (the sifaka version) and each of my children has been bought a San Diego shirt as well (they're surprisingly tasteful!). Postcards a bit disappointing, obviously (apart from the rock poster style Africa Rocks ones). Good that both San Diego places still publish guidebooks (produced by Beckton, and pretty good).
- Finding zoos in America, without GPS, must be a total 'mare. They need to get those brown elephant signs up!
- I'm not sure if it's just California, or maybe just tourist locations in California, but blimey things are expensive: at the SD Zoo, I think I paid about $6 for a glass of Coca-Cola (or, rather, for a bucket. Of ice). Food was at Swiss prices (but not at Swiss quality).
- I've realised that those "docents", about whose occsional ignorance I rather ungraciously moaned a little previously, are part of the genius of these zoos. Not only are they are a small army of eyes-and-ears (even if anyone did want to misbehave, they'd be pounced by a shorts-wearing retiree), but they also add to the general sense of bonhomie. On Saturday, walking from the zoo entrance to the bonobo exhibit (10 minutes, tops) I was asked how I was and wished a "great" day by five separate spry-looking volunteers - and everyone of them seemed to genuinely care about my happiness. Which was lovely.
- The biggest surprise of this zoo trip has been how uncommercial the zoos have been (SW aside, obviously). The two San Diego places are very good at emptying the wallets of visitors, obviously, but they seemed to lack the in-your-face screaming desperation of many UK zoos, in particular. Maybe it's because all of that Sort Of Thing is hidden away, which is easier to do if you have the San Diego WAP's acreage as compared to Bristol's. But this was excellent to see.
I would have stayed in the Queen Mary, but, given that I was due to arrive pretty late, I didn't think I could justify the expense. A nice clean, easy-to-find motel, with some pleasant dining opportune cities nearby, would serve my needs perfectly!
Yes - I'm sure I was unlucky! Other parts of the city looked pretty nice; just near to my lovely motel, I took a wrong turn and ended up down a dead-end where half a dozen ladies were waiting. I don't think they were very interested in discussing the ways in which San Diego Safari Park displays its shoebills, sadly.
Yes - exactly that. A few no-shows from the labelled animals elsewhere, but not that many, and nothing that made me feel unwell to have missed it: fossa, brush-tailed bettong.... Eventually saw klipspringer on what seems like the 37th time I'd passed their enclosure.
A week is long enough to be away from the family, and the dog! And whilst tribute acts aren't really my thing, my village of Upper Dicker (population: less than 100) is hosting a music festival at the weekend, at which the headliners will be the band of Peter Hook (ex of New Order and Joy Division). It could be almost as good as the band at the San Diego Zoo!
@sooty mangabey
However, I do have one main question for you. Where did you eat when you spent all of those 12-hour days at San Diego Zoo?
Also, did you splurge on merchandise at the enormous gift shops or did you resist the lure of purchasing some zoo memorabilia? Are you going to go back to Hogwarts in England with a "I Visited the World's Greatest Zoo" t-shirt?
Eating: as mentioned before, I usually avoid zoo food, for reasons of cost, taste and time. However, at San Diego I did eat, and found the food passable - even if, as with most American food, it's pretty heavy: pizza covered in gloopy cheese, salad covered in creamy dressing, and so on. I tried the Sabretooth place (nice patio, overlooking the elephants) and the Treetop one (very nice, shady balcony). Best location, by far, was the pond-overlooking one at the WAP. They've also just opened a new restaurant, overlooking the Africa area, which is beautiful and really does look like something you'd find in the Serengeti. Having consulted my financial adviser, I did have a drink there - and it was lovely!
Merchandise? Of course I purchased a very stylish Africa Rocks tee-shirt for myself (the sifaka version) and each of my children has been bought a San Diego shirt as well (they're surprisingly tasteful!). Postcards a bit disappointing, obviously (apart from the rock poster style Africa Rocks ones). Good that both San Diego places still publish guidebooks (produced by Beckton, and pretty good).
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sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
So, in conclusion, a brilliant week. It was wonderful to spend some days seeing such a range of zoos - with one of them having a reasonable claim to bring the world's greatest. The people of California, pretty much without exception, were fantastic: polite, friendly, cheerful. The enthusiasm they have for their zoos is superb to see, and their behaviour within those zoos is as good as I've ever seen anywhere, with the possible exception of the coach parties of pensioners at Walsrode. I very much hope I will be back, soon.
Thank you, too, to those who have added to this thread.... (and to those who may continue to add in the coming days).
Thank you, too, to those who have added to this thread.... (and to those who may continue to add in the coming days).
mweb08
Well-Known Member
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
Thanks for this Allen. The in-flight catering looks rather better there than is the case with the spectacularly awful offerings from Norwegian (it's breakfast time, so here's a courgette sandwich!) and the dreams weren't quite as zoo-filled as my own, but, that aside - yes, that's my feeling!
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
So, any zoo visit with @Tim Brown ends with this question - but my usual, honest, answer (the highlight has been being in a zoo with my pals) is always rejected.
I've been thinking over the answers to this question, and they follow below:
Los Angeles Zoo
Best: LAIR - a superb reptile house which I thoroughly enjoyed
Honourable mention: red uakari (even if the viewing is far-from-ideal)
Worst: a sea eagle and a fish eagle in those ridiculous C-cages
San Diego Zoo
Best: The three big walk-through aviaries
Honourable mention: spot-necked otters, swamp monkeys and spot-nosed monkeys, all in one exhibit together - fantastic!
Worst: no doubt at all - the cages for aye ayes, and two other primate species. Horrible, and charmless.
San Diego Wild Animal Park
Best: the run of ungulate enclosures displaying okapi, giant eland, bontebok....
Honourable mention: the thoroughly enjoyable "cart Safari" to see the Asian area
Worst: in a zoo where everything is so immaculate, the walk-through avairy (with abandoned terrariums) stands out as being a bit second-rate
Seaworld
Best: the killer whale show, because they're killer whales, and the show is (relatively) intelligent
Honourable mention: walrus. Very nice.
Worst: I still haven't quite recovered from the sealion show, and I'm not sure I ever will.
Birch Aquarium
Best: seahorses and sea dragons, very professionally displayed
Worst: just a bit on the dull side
Living Coast, Chula Vista
Best: the Ridgway's rails - an unusual species , of which a great deal is made
Worst: nothing really - although it was a bit of a bugger to get to
Aquarium of the Pacific, Long Beach
Best: sea otters, of course. A genuinely wonderful animal to have the privilege to be able to observe in a zoo.
Worst: having a lorikeet aviary for no apparent reason, other than the making of money
Santa Ana Zoo
Best: the howler monkey enclosure is pretty nicely done....
Worst: ....but the rest of the primate accommodation is just ugly
Orange County Zoo
Best: seeing coyotes, looking good
Worst: the slight whiff of "we're a sanctuary, not a zoo" that hangs over the place (although possibly I'm being unfair).
And just to close off - unless anyone else posts anything to which I need to respond - Orange County was my 368th zoo visited; next stop: Madrid and its environs, later this month (although, sadly, zoos will not be the prime focus of this expedition!). And finally, if anyone is curious, here is the song whose title I stole for the thread; I recommend it!: (I Wish I Was In) California., by Ian McNabb.
Was tempted to leave this as it was...the resting place of an entertaining thread.But as my mum once said, "the trouble with our Tim is he always has to have the last word..one day someone will dot him on the nose!" Sure enough they did! (Andre Barkers stag "do" many moons ago).Only a comment on the McNabb track therefore(which i did at least give a go )....gawd its `orrible... an invasive guitar unfortunately remains omnipresent throughout the track and any essential pathos in the lyric is swamped by its vigorous over-use, notwithstanding the fact that the singer appears to wish he was Elvis Costello..for something far warmer and empathetic to the golden state try Bobby Womack`s version of " California Dreamin" from 1969(and i wouldnt have the foggiest idea of how to upload the track onto here!).
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
Technology baffles Brown once more! I played his suggestion, and my 15 year-old son immediately perked up and commented that it was better than the usual stuff I play. Like Tim, he has disappointing taste.
...and Andre Barker's stag do sounds like a memorable event!
Sorry for joining this thread rather late and possibly prolonging what should have been the end. I just now powered through the entire thing, as I have been away with snowleopard on part of his version of the California experience. As someone who grew up in Los Angeles and has visited most of the attractions mentioned (and maintains a high level membership to San Diego), I cannot help but comment. The thread itself is essentially complete, however, so feel free to skip my comments unless you have time to kill.
With the exception of musical tastes (and skipping meals), I feel that Sooty and I may be kindred spirits. I agree with his assessments in pretty much every respect. This includes my loathing for Sea World, which I think should be bombed to oblivion. I visited once as an adult, over twenty years ago on a free pass with my then new wife (now ex). We left after a few hours because we had seen everything and there was nothing else to do. The shows were, as Sooty describes, downright awful. It is an embarrassment to the zoo profession and I find it inconceivable that my friend snowleopard actually defends this place (which we discussed briefly while we were together).
Though I am not a bird person, I do agree the two huge aviaries at San Diego Zoo are amazing (our word for the day). I am a fan of big exhibits and to see an aviary where birds can truly fly and not just flutter is fantastic. The mature trees are great. An often overlooked gem, not yet mentioned, is the diving duck aviary in Polar Bear Plunge. The Skyfari (cable car) is also great as you mentioned and snowleopard and I thoroughly enjoyed our trip from the back to the front of the zoo (where I departed to drive home). BTW the Skyfari is now included with admission (it used to be a separate fee).
As someone who has spent half my life in southern California and half in southern Arizona, it is always amusing to hear how foreign zoo fans get excited over coyotes. They are a dime a dozen here and live in the cities in the same way red foxes live in urban England. I have a loft in a factory section of Tucson on the edge of downtown and I have seen a coyote in a dirt lot a block from my place (and a dozen or more other spots). Scores of zoos and rescue centers have them and I imagine any European zoo that really wanted them would have their pick.
I am surprised Sooty makes no mention of the new 19.5 million dollar tiger exhibit at SD Safari Park. It really is great (didn't want to overuse amazing) and as snowleopard says in his thread is in the absolute best category along with Minnesota and Bronx.
As a former docent myself, I can say your assessment is absolutely spot on. The vast majority are very nice people who know little to nothing about animals or even the zoo itself. While I was still a docent, I had a lovely talk with an elderly docent at a zoo in south Texas. He insisted (adamantly so) that their large group of six confiscated white and orange bengal hybrid tigers were pure Sumatran tigers. I tried to explain there are no white Sumatran tigers, but he was sure the zoo director had told him they were. I think you are entirely correct that the largest value of docents is in being a friendly face for visitors and an extra set of eyes and ears on the grounds.
The Living Desert is one of my favorites and it is a shame you missed it. Even in the summer heat, the animals were surprisingly active when I visited at opening time on my way to meet snowleopard in Fresno. If you ever return...
With the exception of musical tastes (and skipping meals), I feel that Sooty and I may be kindred spirits. I agree with his assessments in pretty much every respect. This includes my loathing for Sea World, which I think should be bombed to oblivion. I visited once as an adult, over twenty years ago on a free pass with my then new wife (now ex). We left after a few hours because we had seen everything and there was nothing else to do. The shows were, as Sooty describes, downright awful. It is an embarrassment to the zoo profession and I find it inconceivable that my friend snowleopard actually defends this place (which we discussed briefly while we were together).
Though I am not a bird person, I do agree the two huge aviaries at San Diego Zoo are amazing (our word for the day). I am a fan of big exhibits and to see an aviary where birds can truly fly and not just flutter is fantastic. The mature trees are great. An often overlooked gem, not yet mentioned, is the diving duck aviary in Polar Bear Plunge. The Skyfari (cable car) is also great as you mentioned and snowleopard and I thoroughly enjoyed our trip from the back to the front of the zoo (where I departed to drive home). BTW the Skyfari is now included with admission (it used to be a separate fee).
As someone who has spent half my life in southern California and half in southern Arizona, it is always amusing to hear how foreign zoo fans get excited over coyotes. They are a dime a dozen here and live in the cities in the same way red foxes live in urban England. I have a loft in a factory section of Tucson on the edge of downtown and I have seen a coyote in a dirt lot a block from my place (and a dozen or more other spots). Scores of zoos and rescue centers have them and I imagine any European zoo that really wanted them would have their pick.
I am surprised Sooty makes no mention of the new 19.5 million dollar tiger exhibit at SD Safari Park. It really is great (didn't want to overuse amazing) and as snowleopard says in his thread is in the absolute best category along with Minnesota and Bronx.
As a former docent myself, I can say your assessment is absolutely spot on. The vast majority are very nice people who know little to nothing about animals or even the zoo itself. While I was still a docent, I had a lovely talk with an elderly docent at a zoo in south Texas. He insisted (adamantly so) that their large group of six confiscated white and orange bengal hybrid tigers were pure Sumatran tigers. I tried to explain there are no white Sumatran tigers, but he was sure the zoo director had told him they were. I think you are entirely correct that the largest value of docents is in being a friendly face for visitors and an extra set of eyes and ears on the grounds.
The Living Desert is one of my favorites and it is a shame you missed it. Even in the summer heat, the animals were surprisingly active when I visited at opening time on my way to meet snowleopard in Fresno. If you ever return...
Was going to leave this one alone...but A.D. has missed the point on Coyotes.Since the demise of dealers and comprehensive collections, and with the rise of conservationally relevant protocols , many commonplace North American species have vanished from Europe...I doubt that there is a Blue Jay in the whole continent now for instance.And it works the other way too...how many US. zoos have European Roe Deer? Yet two skipped across the road up to my house just a week or two back. Im sure,the Bronx,say,could get them if they wanted, but they wouldnt want to do that these days...(for what its worth ,according to Crandall,the zoo has only ever had three specimens of that species...in 1908).