IDA’s Top 10 Worst Zoos for Elephants 2021

Yeah, the IDA is pretty terrible and quite annoying but nothing about that piece you provided is “crazy”. Animals should be referred to as he/she/etc, and not “it”, they are indeed beings and shouldn’t be treated like objects…

Why would you even go looking around their website in the first place, did you read what @Aardwolf posted above? Don’t give them the attention they clearly don’t deserve.
Oh, I agree with that, my statement went more along the lines of the whole who thing, as frankly I believe that one should narrow down the species before asking the individual. Some animals have calls regarding different species after all, so I fell it would be most polite to specify the species first.
 
Why is Buttonwood Park Zoo not on this list? They should for sure be #1 on this list. They have a horrible elephant exhibit for 2022 standards.
I am even more shocked that the Topeka Zoo also didn't make it on this list in 2021.
How do you know that these facilities are awful? How do you know for sure about Emily/Ruth's and Tembo/Cora's conditions? The keepers are doing all they can to make sure their quality of life is the best that it can be, and everything possible is being done to maximize the welfare of all animals concerned. Buttonwood even *expanded* their elephant exhibit, while Topeka makes sure the elephants are always standing on soft substrates. This is extremely ignorant of you to say, and disregards all the effort the keeper-staff do to make sure these elephants are happy and healthy. If you're going to criticize a facility, take a second and make sure that you understand the big picture rather than what you see at face value. Do better.
 
Oh, I agree with that, my statement went more along the lines of the whole who thing, as frankly I believe that one should narrow down the species before asking the individual. Some animals have calls regarding different species after all, so I fell it would be most polite to specify the species first.

What? Can you give some sentence examples of what you mean?
 
What? Can you give some sentence examples of what you mean?
As in not saying "Who?" "Cow." or "Who?" "Human?" If it is obvious what species, then who works, but if the species is not know, then asking the species should be called for, merely so that somebody doesn't say "Who?" "Guinea Pig" when the guinea pig in question is in fact a rock hyrax.
 
As in not saying "Who?" "Cow." or "Who?" "Human?" If it is obvious what species, then who works, but if the species is not know, then asking the species should be called for, merely so that somebody doesn't say "Who?" "Guinea Pig" when the guinea pig in question is in fact a rock hyrax.

I'm really not understanding what you're trying to say here.
 
Okay, so I do support saying she/her and he/him for animals, but the issue I have with saying who is this (mock conversation):

Person: "One of the animals in the mixed exhibit stole my food."

Keeper: "Who?"

Person: "Goat."

This is a bit of a poor example, but if you apply saying "who for an animal of which the species is known, one will just blab about said animal without knowing what species it is, though I suppose this is me being extremely nitpicky.
 
Okay, so I do support saying she/her and he/him for animals, but the issue I have with saying who is this (mock conversation):

Person: "One of the animals in the mixed exhibit stole my food."

Keeper: "Who?"

Person: "Goat."

This is a bit of a poor example, but if you apply saying "who for an animal of which the species is known, one will just blab about said animal without knowing what species it is, though I suppose this is me being extremely nitpicky.

This is not something anyone would say, and not what IDA means. They're talking about individual animals. For example, my dog is on the balcony right now. They're saying you shouldn't say "it's on the balcony", you should say "he's on the balcony". Not in place of the species if that isn't known, but in place of the word "it".
 
This is not something anyone would say, and not what IDA means. They're talking about individual animals. For example, my dog is on the balcony right now. They're saying you shouldn't say "it's on the balcony", you should say "he's on the balcony". Not in place of the species if that isn't known, but in place of the word "it".

Most people will automatically use he/she even in they don't know the sex in my experience. "It" is only almost exclusively used in the phrase "Do you see it?" when they're looking for the animal.
 
Most people will automatically use he/she even in they don't know the sex in my experience. "It" is only almost exclusively used in the phrase "Do you see it?" when they're looking for the animal.

Agreed. I only ever see people use "it" when they really don't care about animals at all for mammals. It's a bit more common with non-mammals (ex. "Where did the bird go?" "It went that way")
 
Agreed. I only ever see people use "it" when they really don't care about animals at all for mammals. It's a bit more common with non-mammals (ex. "Where did the bird go?" "It went that way")

Pretty much. And really we can't expect the average public to know what every species is, at least they're interested in animals in the first place!
 
Plus, these guys are crazy, look what I found

Use and Misuse of Animal Pronouns

We compose words in every situation and take for granted the subtle ways they influence how we relate to the world around us, and how our audiences interpret their meaning; the words we choose are critically important because the way we use language matters.

When it comes to animals, the scientific consensus is clear; they are conscious beings. We would never refer to each other as it, that, or what, and we shouldn’t do it when we’re talking, or writing, about animals.

Animals cannot be discussed accurately with words we regularly use to describe inanimate objects. We should always refer to them as she/her/hers, he/him/his and they/them/theirs, along with using who, regardless of species. When we don’t know if an animal is a male or female, we should use the gender neutral they/them/theirs.

It may seem like a small thing to do, but it has such a meaningful impact for animals and elevates them from being thought of as objects to living beings who merit consideration and basic rights.

For future note, everything after "look what I found" should be in quotes and include a source link. Without those things everyone reading it a) doesn't have evidence that this quote actually exists, and b) doesn't know if you're saying it or the person you're quoting is.
 
Why is Buttonwood Park Zoo not on this list? They should for sure be #1 on this list. They have a horrible elephant exhibit for 2022 standards.
I am even more shocked that the Topeka Zoo also didn't make it on this list in 2021.
Have you seen Buttonwood's exhibit in person? Because if you have, you'd realize it's not even that bad, let alone horrible. Keep in mind that it's a small zoo keeping their two Asian Elephants (one of which is over 60) and will be phasing them out. Ruth has had problems integrating with other elephants in the past, so integrating with another herd would be next-to-impossible, even if they do survive the dangerous transfer. Furthermore, even if an expansion was possible, it would do very little to improve their lives. Ruth in particular has some rather bad arthritis, so on most days they don't even use all the space they do have access to. And once the elephants pass, the exhibit will become an incredible home for Indian rhinos!

Really the first place zoo, as mentioned previously, should be Natural Bridge. Are you familiar with their Elephant program? It certainly is much, much worse than Buttonwood's.
 
Have you seen Buttonwood's exhibit in person? Because if you have, you'd realize it's not even that bad, let alone horrible. Keep in mind that it's a small zoo keeping their two Asian Elephants (one of which is over 60) and will be phasing them out. Ruth has had problems integrating with other elephants in the past, so integrating with another herd would be next-to-impossible, even if they do survive the dangerous transfer. Furthermore, even if an expansion was possible, it would do very little to improve their lives. Ruth in particular has some rather bad arthritis, so on most days they don't even use all the space they do have access to. And once the elephants pass, the exhibit will become an incredible home for Indian rhinos!
I hope if I ever need a defense lawyer they can mount a more inspiring argument
 
I found it funny how Cincinnati was on the list for "too little space" when they are building a new exhibit for that reason. I don't see how this would do anything to make the zoo stop their elephant program, the zoo already is putting millions of dollars into a new elephant exhibit and has started construction, you can't just halt that.
Buttonwood, being an AZA zoo, should definitely not be #1. Same for Topeka.

I agree with this. Topeka has already spent millions of dollars on new lion and giraffe enclosures, which are not really needed as much as a new elephant exhibit. I also find it funny how the "hall of shame" was not included in the top ten. Even if the zoo has management problems, any zoo which puts abusive entertainment over the conservation of the animal shouldn't be worthy of having such an animal. Same goes for Natural Bridge.
 
I found it funny how Cincinnati was on the list for "too little space" when they are building a new exhibit for that reason. I don't see how this would do anything to make the zoo stop their elephant program, the zoo already is putting millions of dollars into a new elephant exhibit and has started construction, you can't just halt that.

I also find it funny how the "hall of shame" was not included in the top ten

Well that's the problem with lists based off of limited biased opinion instead of logic and proper facts, they're frequently laughable in these sort of circumstances. :p
Or insulting, like how they cite EEHV as reasons a couple of the zoos are bad.
 
Well that's the problem with lists based off of limited biased opinion instead of logic and proper facts, they're frequently laughable in these sort of circumstances. :p
Or insulting, like how they cite EEHV as reasons a couple of the zoos are bad.
I love how these slacktivists just paint these elephants' futures with a simple "send them to a sanctuary", as if they are pieces of furniture rather than sentient beings. Isn't the end goal to maximize the animals' welfare? I've seen how zoos bend over backwards to maximize their animals' welfare and do right by their animals as much as possible, so why don't these supercilious slacktivists put their money where their mouth is and sponsor some toys/enrichment items for the elephants? Friends of the Philly Zoo Elephants, as anti-captivity as they were (site hasn't been updated for years), at least did so and showed that they genuinely cared about Bette and Kallie during the twilight years of that particular exhibit. I'm not going to refer to this pathetic excuse of an organization by their name, because frankly, they don't deserve it. If they truly wanted to be "In Defense of Animals", they'd work *with* zoos to maximize the welfare of their animals as much as possible. This sorry excuse of an organization can go sit in the corner with Damian ASSpinall like the petulant, spoiled children they are.
 
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