IDA's Worst Zoos for elephants...

mstickmanp

mstickmanp

Well-Known Member
Well, IDA's infamous list of "Top Ten Worst Zoos for Elephants" for 2009 is out.

Link: Help Elephants (IDA) - Top Ten Worst Zoos for Elephants

Here are the top ten:

1. San Antonio Zoo
2. Toronto Zoo - according to IDA, this is the "deadliest zoo for elephants".
3. Honolulu Zoo
4. Reid Park Zoo
5. Houston Zoo
6. Topeka Zoo
7. Oregon Zoo
8. Bronx Zoo
9. Toledo Zoo
10. Brookfield Zoo

For the first time both the LA Zoo and Woodland Park Zoo did not make the list, but they were included in the Hall of Shame for being included in the list in the past multiple times. The hall of shame includes Dickerson Park Zoo, El Paso Zoo, St. Louis Zoo, and Six Flags Discovery Kingdom.
 
My jaw dropped seeing Bronx there. Obviously, nothing will be good enough for Ida. Apparently, promising to phase out the exhibit means you're not treating your animals correctly--as the article actually states.
 
Toronto deadliest for elephants? *scratches head* It needs improvements yes, but far from deadly and there are far more terrible elephant exhibits (Edmonton, I'm looking at you). Are they going to call their hyena exhibit "deadly" because one of their hyenas was put to sleep last January and there's another being treated for a tumor? And how can a zoo be bad for wanting to IMPROVE exhibits like Toronto is doing/going to do?
 
Does anyone know why Reid Park is on there? Is it just out dated? I heard they were building a whole new facility... or is there some other reason?
 
Building a new facility IS a reason they look for. They want ALL zoos to send their elephants to the Tennesee sanctuary. They can NOT be taken seriously. Every year someone here passes on their list as if it matters to us, and it SHOULDN'T (no offense mstickmanp).
 
Those people will get a hold of anything to bring their point across and some people actually believe them!
 
I also think Bronx is doing wrong thing. IDA, as you see, will never be pleased. Bronx should build a multi-acre elephant exhibit in its woodland near World of Birds or at the rare ungulates paddocks! :p
 
Jurek7 said:
I also think Bronx is doing wrong thing. IDA, as you see, will never be pleased. Bronx should build a multi-acre elephant exhibit in its woodland near World of Birds or at the rare ungulates paddocks! :p
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I fully agree. Your right, soon you will see NC, Sandiego, Nashville, DAK on list as well. It doesn't matter the enclosure, its the fact they have elephants. These people (animal activists) will never stop thinking its wrong to keep elephants. They don't even take an individual elephants history into consideration when looking at these enclosures or practices nor do they acknowledge the fact that, given the availability of funds, all of these zoos would give the elephants brand new enclosures. They act like we want to harm elephants. It is a waste of our time to convince them otherwise. Jurek7's idea of just ignoring them and not giving in to their demands is EXACTLY what should be done.
Bronx is a great example of this. They have had a long history with elephants and definitely have the room (I agree the former deer/guanaco yards is ideal). I wish they would reconsider.
 
Ituri said:
Building a new facility IS a reason they look for. They want ALL zoos to send their elephants to the Tennesee sanctuary. They can NOT be taken seriously. Every year someone here passes on their list as if it matters to us, and it SHOULDN'T (no offense mstickmanp).
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How does anybody take the Tennesee sanctuary seriously? They rarely allow visitors if at all, and who knows if any agency evaluates them.
 
Wow, I'm really glad Cleveland is remodeling their elephant exhibit or there would've been a slight chance of it making this list. The old elephant house was so outdated and cramped, the elephants had less room than the hippos.
 
jaxbilly said:
How does anybody take the Tennesee sanctuary seriously? They rarely allow visitors if at all, and who knows if any agency evaluates them.
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I think the Elephant Sanctuary performs a needed service. Many of their elephants come from circuses, which I believe are inappropriate places for elephants. And since many of those animals spent their lives performing, they choose not to put them on exhibit, which I have no problem with.

There are a lot of great zoos, but that doesn't mean all zoos are perfect.
If you go to their webpage and read about Sissy, they had good things to say about the Houston Zoo "Although we were disappointed that Sissy would not be joining our family, we felt her new home could meet her special needs. The Houston Zoo has top-of-the-line, protected-contact facilities, qualified staff, and a compatible herd of Asian elephants."
She ended up at the sanctuary after there were problems followering her transfer to the El Paso zoo

Finally, in answer to your question on who evaluates them, they are licenced by the USDA and the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency.
 
jaxbilly said:
How does anybody take the Tennesee sanctuary seriously? They rarely allow visitors if at all, and who knows if any agency evaluates them.
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I, for one, have an extremely hard time trying to think up any reason whatsoever not to take the Tennesee sanctuary seriously. Please explain the reasons for why I should not.

Be as detailed as possible, if you don´t mind.

Thanks.
 
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Ituri said:
Building a new facility IS a reason they look for. They want ALL zoos to send their elephants to the Tennesee sanctuary. They can NOT be taken seriously. Every year someone here passes on their list as if it matters to us, and it SHOULDN'T (no offense mstickmanp).
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Ituri is dead right! We should stop publicizing these idiots' press releases.

Jurek7 said:
I also think Bronx is doing wrong thing. IDA, as you see, will never be pleased. Bronx should build a multi-acre elephant exhibit in its woodland near World of Birds or at the rare ungulates paddocks! :p
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I totally agree with this! Once Bronx has no more elephants, any thought of them being among the nation's very best zoos will disappear. They will fall far behind San Diego, and once Omaha has their new multi-acre elephant exhibit in place, they will be a lock for the USA's #2 zoo (when compared to elephantless Bronx).
 
ANyhuis said:
I totally agree with this! Once Bronx has no more elephants, any thought of them being among the nation's very best zoos will disappear. They will fall far behind San Diego, and once Omaha has their new multi-acre elephant exhibit in place, they will be a lock for the USA's #2 zoo (when compared to elephantless Bronx).
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Just have to say that this is simply ridiculous - elephants don't make a zoo good, they complement an already good zoo. I'd far rather see elephants sent to a sanctuary then live alone on half an acre of dust, in fact I'd applaud the zoo for relinquishing their pachyderms in this scenario.
 
redpanda said:
Just have to say that this is simply ridiculous - elephants don't make a zoo good, they complement an already good zoo.
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From the ZooChat-following zoo fanatics' point of view, you are correct. But from the visitors' point of view (which I represent, as author of a travel guidebook to zoos), elephants are very important! No, lacking elephants doesn't make a zoo bad, as Detroit, Lincoln Park, and others are still very nice. But minus elephants, a zoo simply cannot be compared with the best-of-the-best (San Diego, Omaha, Columbus, Disney). I can already hear the kids, on their way out of the zoo, asking "But where are the elephants, Daddy?"

redpanda said:
I'd far rather see elephants sent to a sanctuary then live alone on half an acre of dust, in fact I'd applaud the zoo for relinquishing their pachyderms in this scenario.
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Let's not applaud any zoo for sending their elephants to these "sanctuaries"! If they don't have the proper facilities for elephants, then they should send their pachyderms to another zoo! But don't give in to these zoo-hating organizations, IDA and PETA!
 
ANyhuis said:
From the ZooChat-following zoo fanatics' point of view, you are correct. But from the visitors' point of view (which I represent, as author of a travel guidebook to zoos), elephants are very important! No, lacking elephants doesn't make a zoo bad, as Detroit, Lincoln Park, and others are still very nice. But minus elephants, a zoo simply cannot be compared with the best-of-the-best (San Diego, Omaha, Columbus, Disney). I can already hear the kids, on their way out of the zoo, asking "But where are the elephants, Daddy?
!
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This is ridiculous. Omaha's two elephants--exhibited in what the Zoo itself admits is a woefully inadequate exhibit (and one of the most difficult to see at the zoo, due to its distant location and poor viewing area design)--are hardly a factor in whether the zoo is perceived of as "great" by so many (not by me, but that is a whole different discussion!). When/if Omaha spends the mega-millions needed to effectively and humanely exhibit elephants, it will be a "value added," but in no way does the current elephant situation there enhance the zoo's public reputation or professional standing as an important zoo.

The Bronx elephants have only been viewable for brief moments to the small percentage of visitors who opt to take the summer-only Wild Asia monorail ride. Their absence will not be greatly noted, although I agree I would prefer the Bronx stepped up and made a big commitment to doing elephants "right" instead of opting out of the issue.
 
@ANyhuis: the elephants at the Bronx Zoo are not on view during the winter season, and in the summer they can only be seen for 10-20 seconds by those visitors that choose to pay the additional cost of taking the Wild Asia tour. You stated that when the Bronx Zoo does get rid of its remaining elephants that the zoo would no longer be regarded as among the best of its kind, but that is a ludricous statement as the missing elephants will barely even be noticed. A zoo should either spend millions and build fantastic elephant exhibits, or send their elephants elsewhere.

Also, the Detroit Zoo sent its elephants to a sanctuary and have now had 4 consecutive record-breaking years. One could argue that elephants have zero bearing on a zoo's financial position, unless of course baby pachyderms are stomping in the dust.:) Hmmm...let's evaluate the position of the Detroit Zoo from a few years ago. Keep their elephants in a wintry, freezing climate and in a crappy, outdated enclosure OR send them to a warm climate, complete with a massive lake and hundreds of acres to roam. The Detroit Zoo should be applauded for what they did. Bravo!
 
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