Iguanas in Australia

[tetrapod]

{Note from mods - this thread split from here: D'Aguilar Wildlife [D'Aguilar Wildlife]}

To which I would reply "so what". A common species that is an invasive pest in the USA. A better choice might be the rhinoceros iguana if they wanted to exhibit a large iguana.

While I agree to a point (that being the strictly conservation one) given the ridiculous lack of exotic diversity of all groups in Australia, surely there is enough room for two large iguana species to be managed. If the region had a handful of similar species, then by all means lose the common one.

 

[MRJ]

While I agree to a point (that being the strictly conservation one) given the ridiculous lack of exotic diversity of all groups in Australia, surely there is enough room for two large iguana species to be managed. If the region had a handful of similar species, then by all means lose the common one.

There are 27 Families of lizard, of which as far as I can work out about 70% are not represented in Australian zoos. To my mind maintaining two closely related (and to the public eye, almost identical to look at) species does little to increase diversity. This is especially so when they are both expensive to maintain and therefore use resources that could indeed be used to increase diversity.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I would have to agree that rhino iguana would be a better choice!
Are these still managed as a species program within ZAA?

 

[WhistlingKite24]

I would have to agree that rhino iguana would be a better choice!
Are these still managed as a species program within ZAA?

According to this page on the ZAA website rhino iguanas are not currently part of a species program [Species Programs] but Fijian Crested Iguana is the main managed iguana species coordinated by Melbourne Zoo. In any case, D'Aguilar Wildlife already have Rhinoceros Iguana that arrived last year.

 

[Zorro]

According to this page on the ZAA website rhino iguanas are not currently part of a species program [Species Programs] but Fijian Crested Iguana is the main managed iguana species coordinated by Melbourne Zoo. In any case, D'Aguilar Wildlife already have Rhinoceros Iguana that arrived last year.

Correct. But how many zoos within the region actually have this species of Iguana on show for zoo visitors to see that want to see an Iguana?

 

[WhistlingKite24]

Correct. But how many zoos within the region actually have this species of Iguana on show for zoo visitors to see that want to see an Iguana?

I assume you are referring to Fijian Crested Iguanas rather than Rhino Iguanas in regards to whether they are reliably placed on public display (?) The eight zoos that house crested iguanas in Australia all seem to have them on-display (not 100% sure about Gorge or Canberra though). The three zoos in Queensland that have crested iguanas certainly all keep at least one or two individuals on public display.

 

[MRJ]

I would have to agree that rhino iguana would be a better choice!
Are these still managed as a species program within ZAA?

It seems that the rhino iguana has pretty good representation worldwide and does not really need any additional places.

If D'Aguila want to keep and breed green iguanas that is up to them. However they don't need to invent reasons for a "program" nor do they need to trash talk the rest of the industry to justify it.

And a Merry Christmas to everybody!

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I would not be so bold about that statement over rhino iguana worldwide. The captive-breeding effort is pretty stale and far from frequent. Further, few zoos really seem interested in conserving Cyclura species. I would say private breeders do much better with overall. Hence, zoos need to do catch up and invest more.

Further, I would like to see another taxon Lesser Antilles iguana and spiny taileds Ctenosaura represented in conservation breeding as there is dire need for this given all their status wild.

 

[Zorro]

I would not be so bold about that statement over rhino iguana worldwide. The captive-breeding effort is pretty stale and far from frequent. Further, few zoos really seem interested in conserving Cyclura species. I would say private breeders do much better with overall. Hence, zoos need to do catch up and invest more.

Quite right @Kifaru Bwana well said

 

[MRJ]

I would not be so bold about that statement over rhino iguana worldwide. The captive-breeding effort is pretty stale and far from frequent. Further, few zoos really seem interested in conserving Cyclura species. I would say private breeders do much better with overall. Hence, zoos need to do catch up and invest more.

Further, I would like to see another taxon Lesser Antilles iguana and spiny taileds Ctenosaura represented in conservation breeding as there is dire need for this given all their status wild.

You are obviously more up to date than my source, but emphasizes my original point that spaces need to be dedicated to threatened species. FYI, private individuals as such cannot legally hold exotic reptiles in Australia. They would need some form of display license.

 

[tetrapod]

I would not be so bold about that statement over rhino iguana worldwide. The captive-breeding effort is pretty stale and far from frequent. Further, few zoos really seem interested in conserving Cyclura species. I would say private breeders do much better with overall. Hence, zoos need to do catch up and invest more.

Further, I would like to see another taxon Lesser Antilles iguana and spiny taileds Ctenosaura represented in conservation breeding as there is dire need for this given all their status wild.

But this reinforces my original point. With so few exotic lizard species in the region's zoos are forced to concentrate on Greens (common/invasive) or Rhino iguanas if they want a large exotic lizard (the Fijians don't really count). Now if they were to focus on some of the endangered Cyclura, Ctenosaura or the other Iguana species then fine phase out the Greens. But the big city zoos don't seem to be rushing into a new breeding program, so unfortunately it will be up to smaller zoos to try and pick up the baton. I think the region focussing on several species of rare Caribbean iguanians would be absolutely mint!

 

[Zorro]

But this reinforces my original point. With so few exotic lizard species in the region's zoos are forced to concentrate on Greens (common/invasive) or Rhino iguanas if they want a large exotic lizard (the Fijians don't really count). Now if they were to focus on some of the endangered Cyclura, Ctenosaura or the other Iguana species then fine phase out the Greens. But the big city zoos don't seem to be rushing into a new breeding program, so unfortunately it will be up to smaller zoos to try and pick up the baton. I think the region focussing on several species of rare Caribbean iguanians would be absolutely mint!

I would have to agree 100% with your view here, Some of the rarer iguana species would be wonderful but under the current trend among some of the ZAA zoos of less is best its not going to happen. As it has been mentioned on other threads here the phasing out of many species over the years in the regional collections is a backward step, as an example the phasing out of other bear species to focus on Sun bears which are now hanging on by a thread in the region, almost the same with the Snow Leopard, As other leopard species were brushed aside for these only to find now they are also hanging on by a mere handful smacks of bad planning or mismanagement, Look at the mistake with the Endangered Maned Wolf only a few years ago, bushed aside by some major zoos only to be taken up by a small private zoo which then saved this endangered species from going to same way as others, now it has never been in a better position in the region than it is now!.

 

[MRJ]

But this reinforces my original point. With so few exotic lizard species in the region's zoos are forced to concentrate on Greens (common/invasive) or Rhino iguanas if they want a large exotic lizard (the Fijians don't really count). Now if they were to focus on some of the endangered Cyclura, Ctenosaura or the other Iguana species then fine phase out the Greens. But the big city zoos don't seem to be rushing into a new breeding program, so unfortunately it will be up to smaller zoos to try and pick up the baton. I think the region focussing on several species of rare Caribbean iguanians would be absolutely mint!

So which current programs would you be happy to phase out to allow for spaces for these iguanas? It's not as if a bunch of unknown lizards would be huge crowd pullers.

 

[CGSwans]

@MRJ I know you come to these discussions from a very different perspective, but I’m not sure you professionals realise how galling it is for us nerds to see species diversity essentially being thrown out for the sake of it. I mean, we’re talking about iguanas here, not big cats or apes. I think Australian zoos can sustain three iguana species just fine. They just don’t want to.

 

[MRJ]

Look at the mistake with the Endangered Maned Wolf only a few years ago, bushed aside by some major zoos only to be taken up by a small private zoo which then saved this endangered species from going to same way as others, now it has never been in a better position in the region than it is now!.

I'm not sure the management of the various zoos would agree it was a mistake, they would consider it a rational decision. They obviously have other priorities. Looking at Melbourne Zoo's visitor numbers they don't seem to have suffered from not having maned wolfs. Please don't think I'm not sympathetic with you, in that maned wolves are cool animals. I in particular like small mammals and birds, both which have declined in our major zoos.

There is however a disconnect in your reasoning by referencing the threatened status. There are around 2,000 threatened species of mammal. No zoo could keep every threatened species of mammal let alone run programs for them. Even more importantly the question should be how does the program assist the conservation of the species.

Alinta Wildlife Park does deserve kudos for putting their money where their mouth is regarding maned wolves. They are the ZAA species coordinator for maned wolves, which in itself is a substantial investment. In fact they are one of only two private zoos to host species programs in the ZAA. (Defining a private zoo as one that is not ultimately owned but the Government or a large corporation).

 

[CGSwans]

@MRJ I know you come to these discussions from a very different perspective, but I’m not sure you professionals realise how galling it is for us nerds to see species diversity essentially being thrown out for the sake of it. I mean, we’re talking about iguanas here, not big cats or apes. I think Australian zoos can sustain three iguana species just fine. They just don’t want to.

Already regretting my phrasing here, but what I was attempting (and failing, I think) to express is that Australian zoos appear to treat species rationalisation as a positive thing in itself, when the rest of us view it as a necessary - and sometimes unnecessary - evil. The capacity to maintain existing levels of exotic lizard diversity exists in Australia. It’s an active choice not to do so. That choice keeps getting made over, and over, and over again, to the detriment of our zoos.

 

[MRJ]

I mean, we’re talking about iguanas here, not big cats or apes. I think Australian zoos can sustain three iguana species just fine. They just don’t want to.

Sure they could, but why not four? Why not five? For myself I am disappointed in the decline in birds and small mammals and would advocate for them. On the other hand I am very much aware what is required to keep an animal in this day and age, and how difficult it is to run a program.

What annoyed me was the Facebook post that tried to make out that somehow they were "saving" the species, as if the rest of the industry had abandoned it. Saved it from what? It pissed me off.

 

[CGSwans]

Right, but we don’t have four or five species here, we have three.

Knowing DW’s owner a little, I’m even more loathe than usual to put words in his mouth. My interpretation - which may be incorrect - is that it was a mild form of the same criticism I am making. I don’t think they were claiming to be ‘saving’ the species.

 

[Zorro]

I'm not sure the management of the various zoos would agree it was a mistake, they would consider it a rational decision. They obviously have other priorities. Looking at Melbourne Zoo's visitor numbers they don't seem to have suffered from not having maned wolfs. Please don't think I'm not sympathetic with you, in that maned wolves are cool animals. I in particular like small mammals and birds, both which have declined in our major zoos.

There is however a disconnect in your reasoning by referencing the threatened status. There are around 2,000 threatened species of mammal. No zoo could keep every threatened species of mammal let alone run programs for them. Even more importantly the question should be how does the program assist the conservation of the species.

Alinta Wildlife Park does deserve kudos for putting their money where their mouth is regarding maned wolves. They are the ZAA species coordinator for maned wolves, which in itself is a substantial investment. In fact they are one of only two private zoos to host species programs in the ZAA. (Defining a private zoo as one that is not ultimately owned but the Government or a large corporation).

Thank you for pointing out the obvious, yes there are thousands of species which are endangered with no one suggesting all can be saved, but you seem to brush passed the point of the two species that I had mentioned, the Snow Leopard and the Sun Bear both of these animals species were chosen by the regional zoos as the species of interest above others for the regions zoos, My point of which you seem to just brush passed is there appears to be little to no long term commitment for them. If these are what the zoos want thats fine but then one stands by them long term and here lies the problem. And again no one is suggesting that if someone like Melbourne zoo drop Maned wolfs the public will stop coming its obvious one or two zoos cant carry all the needed animals of the said species alone, they need to be in a number of zoos working on a breeding program as you very well know.

The other point which you brush passed as I have mentioned before is management of that said species like as mentioned with the Zebra, while many zoos within our region hold them they are quite inbred, which is something the major zoos should have addressed long ago but did not, No new bloodlines have been imported for many years by any of the major zoos that I know of so in my view they could have and should have done better than this?, As many would be aware it took two small regional zoos to import from the USA ten Zebra only a few years ago at great cost with the biggest import of Zebra in modern times if I am correct, So in my view if two small zoos can do this why has it not been done by the major zoos here?, why let them become so badly inbred?, Do you not agree they could have done better?.

 

[MRJ]

Right, but we don’t have four or five species here, we have three.

Knowing DW’s owner a little, I’m even more loathe than usual to put words in his mouth. My interpretation - which may be incorrect - is that it was a mild form of the same criticism I am making. I don’t think they were claiming to be ‘saving’ the species.

Well for some reason they saw it as important to save it for the region. I just don't see the point and I thought their comments bordered on rude. If they want to keep and breed them, fine, but as I said in my original comment "so what". I'd just have liked them to put their time and money into something more worthy of their efforts.