In search for progress

L

LARTIS

Well-Known Member
5+ year member
Disclaimer
I do not want to attack anybody.
Simply voice an emotional state.

The original reason i joined zoochat was to share information I had and at time other people did not just like was thankfull for the knowledge I was allowed to gain from the plattform.

After I started to actively participate a bit on here my motivation shifted a bit.
I had worked my waj thru the most recent updates and looled out for mental stimulation and inspiration.


In no way do I claim that my perception would represent the truth
but after I had scrolled thru both forum and media, I started to think I d be able to recognize a pattern.

This following is difficult to handle becauye it can easily sound invasive.
So please try to read the best intended way version put of this possible.

A lot of the activity seemed a bit shallow.
Sometimes a question seemed to experience the attention I thought I deserved but other times nobody seemed able to bother.

Once again this just a personal impression, but I felt like the community was split more or less into two approaches.

The young and overly excited that could be a bit too idealistic and enthusiastic what resulted in sketchy ideas from a professional view and rather be titled day dreaming.

And the elder that had worked long enough to know better. But might have lost the spark a lil.

All intercated very polite I think, even if asked the same question the whatever time.

I felt a bit lost in the middle.

Yes.

I felt irritated because I felt a lot seemed impossible because od human perception.
Professional institutions have limited resources but at least in my opion used that as an excuse.

So my hope was find compensation on here. But the energy seemed allways off. Either too far from reality or resignated.

Sure we all have different opinions and it is not easy.

Also one argument i have heard that made me sad was that ideas are a currency and one should be carefull with whom one talked about it. And credits r a thing in the zoo world too sure. But I allways hope to find a save haven from the capilasitic society.
 
LARTIS said:
Once again this just a personal impression, but I felt like the community was split more or less into two approaches.

The young and overly excited that could be a bit too idealistic and enthusiastic what resulted in sketchy ideas from a professional view and rather be titled day dreaming.

And the elder that had worked long enough to know better. But might have lost the spark a lil.

All intercated very polite I think, even if asked the same question the whatever time.

I felt a bit lost in the middle.

.
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This is always the way things are in life @LARTIS.

The idealism and enthusiasm of youth may be questioned by age and maturity / pragmatism or indeed a jadedness / cycnism / irony that guises itself as a maturity.

I have often found myself feeling lost in the middle of the two extremes and I believe this is a normal feeling to experience at your age, so I wouldn't worry so much about it.

LARTIS said:
This following is difficult to handle becauye it can easily sound invasive.
So please try to read the best intended way version put of this possible.

A lot of the activity seemed a bit shallow.
Sometimes a question seemed to experience the attention I thought I deserved but other times nobody seemed able to bother.
Click to expand...


Yes, there is a lot of activity on this site which strikes me as superficial too and I sometimes also find the lack of depth about zoos and often disinterest in conservation frustrating and I feel the same about the tribalism and cliques but what is the solution ?

I mean people will talk about what they want to and form the cliques that they want to and that is just the way things are in life.

I hate to say it because it will probably come across as patronising but part of maturity during your 20's is either allowing yourself to experience a resignation to these things as being part of the human condition or learning to try to grapple and combat these realities in a constructive way.

LARTIS said:
Also one argument i have heard that made me sad was that ideas are a currency and one should be carefull with whom one talked about it. And credits r a thing in the zoo world too sure. But I allways hope to find a save haven from the capilasitic society.
Click to expand...

Interesting, what do you mean by ideas being currency ?

I think it is sad but in general in life one should always be careful / prudent with whom one talks to about ideas and thoughts as they can be misconstrued or twisted by people to serve their own agendas / narratives.

That said I can't say I live up to my own advice (which is probably a platitude), I myself am not cautious and usually just say what I think and people and their reactions be damned.

I think it is possible to just express yourself freely too but it isn't an easy way to live and be prepared to encounter resistance / backlash from people and groups.

I think we all want a safe haven from the capitalist world / society but I don't know if this forum is the place to look for that.
 
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I've notice the same thing. When I first joined I didn't notice these two "camps" on the site but a few months later I began too. Whether this was me just getting to know the site better or an actual shift in the "culture" of ZooChat I cannot say, but I like to think I knew the site pretty well before I joined - I lurked for almost a year before I finally made an account.
 
birdsandbats said:
I've notice the same thing. When I first joined I didn't notice these two "camps" on the site but a few months later I began too. Whether this was me just getting to know the site better or an actual shift in the "culture" of ZooChat I cannot say, but I like to think I knew the site pretty well before I joined - I lurked for almost a year before I finally made an account.
Click to expand...

What two camps ?
 
I have noticed over the last couple years there is an influx in younger members, resulting in an increase in activity in the Fantasy Zoo forum (a forum I never look at). This is not necessarily a bad thing, though, because they will learn from the older members and hopefully mature in the process. Some of them will work in zoos or other conservation related fields in the future.

As for lack of progress, it is an unrealistic expectation that ZooChat will influence the direction of zoos. This is a fan forum and its primary purpose is for news and reviews and related discussions. I imagine any fan forum is the same. It would be unrealistic for a basketball fan forum to expect they would influence decisions made by the NBA, it would be unrealistic for a car fan forum to expect they would influence decisions made by Ford or Toyota, and it would be unrealistic for a zoo fan forum (us) to expect we would influence decisions made by zoos or the AZA.
 
Arizona Docent said:
This is not necessarily a bad thing, though, because they will learn from the older members and hopefully mature in the process. Some of them will work in zoos or other conservation related fields in the future.
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I really like the way you've articulated this so constructively @Arizona Docent and you are absolutely right.

Zoochatters who are young and idealists take note: If you want to change things then don't be discouraged and throw yourself into zoo work / conservation in the future and then you may have a chance to make small incremental changes.
 
I very much agree with the difference between the older and younger members on zoochat. As a younger member myself I too first used zoochat purely for news, over the months I mainly scroll through threads in the general or cafe sections and I have dabbled in the fantasy section. I will admit I think I’m probably guilty of that enthusiasm and “day dreaming” you speak of but I do try to remain as sensible as possible, I don’t act like I know things I don’t and there’s a lot of things I don’t. Taking a step back however I can completely see the difference that you talk about, I think for me I find it really beneficial to interact with older and more experienced members, I learn a lot from them as well as this website in general and I really think a balance is important. We need a forward thinking group of young conservationists as they’re realistically the future while I also think that the experience and opinions of older members shape the way that us younger members think and view things.
 
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Arizona Docent said:
As for lack of progress, it is an unrealistic expectation that ZooChat will influence the direction of zoos.
Click to expand...

It may not affect the direction of zoos, but there are a number of zoo staff who read or check in to this site. For example the British Association of Wild Animal Keepers specifically mentioned it in one of their editorials not that long ago, as a site that monitors activity at their zoos. If sometimes a comment or suggestion on here leads to change, e.g. an improvement in a husbandry technique, then that's a good thing. Maybe not a big influence, but its helped in a small way.
 
Pertinax said:
It may not affect the direction of zoos, but there are a number of zoo staff who read or check in to this site. For example the British association of Wild Animal Keepers specifically mentioned it in one of their editorials not that long ago, as a site that monitors activity at their zoos. If sometimes a comment or suggestion on here leads to change, e.g. an improvement in a husbandry technique, then that's a good thing. Maybe not a big influence, but its helped in a small way.
Click to expand...

I would be really interest to see that editorial, is it available online / open access ?
 
The fact that Zoochat is constantly 'feeded' with young members, is a logical and very good evolution. If not, this forum would not survive.

The fact that younger members have other interests and other ways of looking at the way a forum should work, is also understandable. However, I understand the concern of certain older members, myself included, about the direction in which the forum evolves.

For me personally a forum has two objectives: sharing information and discussing zoo-related issues.

My main concern nowadays is the (my) fact that too many superficial topics get started. I will not give specific examples but I think a lot of topics lack focus.
Having said that, imo a forum is not a chat box or a fb group.

But I'll take it if younger or other (it's not always a matter of age) members may feel otherwise.
 
Hi, I share your dislike but I accept it. I am used to quickly scanning names of threads and content, and simply don't look at most of stuff. There is no obligation to read or answer everything.

That new members join and post the same questions is perhaps natural. I sometimes feel it is better to let them ask questions and get answered to encourage people, rather than say bluntly: use forum search.

That zoos lag behind in changing is sad but somehow natural. Consider that there is an excellent idea to change keeping of animals posted on this forum. A person who reads it and gets excited is usually a young naturalist. Then he must himself become a zoo director, then make plans, implement them and so on. It takes years, but it is the only way.

However some progress is being made. I, for example, see that within the last 10 years people in Britain became much more open to reintroduction of large birds and mammals. 10 years ago English considered it improbable that beavers or white-tailed eagles or lynx might live free in England. Now they at least consider it is possible.
 
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