Indonesia refuses to send Sumatran rhinos to the U.S.

[Yassa]

That's presuming they have enough space to hold either three or four animals- if not then they should designate which other Zoo would hold the 2nd pair if they ever have the luxury of such a decision again.

That`s the irony of the whole discussion - from what I know, Cincinnatti DOESN`T have space to hold more then one pair of sumatran rhino, and even this housing is rather small. They sent their offspring away rather quickly to make space for Emi`s next calf. The thought of a larger sumatran rhino program in the US is ridiculous because the only zoo that has the expertise to breed them has no space for more then one pair, and if a breeding program is to work, the best way to ensure it is to house multiple animals so that pairs can be established that are actually compartible. I think it was a huge mistake to distribute the rhinos that came to the US/Europe to serveral zoos incl. one (Port Lympne) that was on another continent; they should have concentrated them all in no more then 2 zoos, ideally not far away from each other to make exchanges easier.

 

[Brum]

...I think it was a huge mistake to distribute the rhinos that came to the US/Europe to serveral zoos incl. one (Port Lympne) that was on another continent; they should have concentrated them all in no more then 2 zoos, ideally not far away from each other to make exchanges easier.

I didn't realise that Port Lympne was actually part of the programme, I always thought that they arrived in Kent because John Aspinall wanted them. I also thought that they arrived a few years before the US imported theirs?

 

[IanRRobinson]

I think that you're right, Brum. "Torgamba" arrived at Port Lympne in 1985. It took a couple of attempts to obtain a female companion, and the one that he was finally paired with. "Meranti" was too old - although that wasn't known until they carried out a post-mortem.

The truth is that whatever is done to conserve Sumatran Rhino is going to involve risk. At one level I'd like to have more Sumatran Rhino in zoos simply because I like to be able to see them! I was very lucky to be able to see "Torgamba" and "Meranti". I would love my children to have a similar opportunity, and some of the younger posters here who can't afford to fly to Ohio, never mind Indonesia!

On a more serious level, I do wonder if there isn't a connection between the progress made with the conservation of the Indian Rhino and its successful maintenance in zoos over the past sixty years or so. I do think that one of the problems that both Sumatran and Javan Rhinos have faced with their conservation is their comparative obscurity.

Ideally, I would like to see three or four pairs in North America - the expertise is in Cincinnati and it seems wasteful to throw that away. US posters would know better than me where other suitable zoos would be. Where any young from such a notional programme would be sent - whether back to SE Asia or to initiate a programme in Europe - would be a matter of debate.

But we don't live in an ideal world. It's about making the least bad decision, sometimes. It is really infuriating that this wonderful spcies should have reached such a dire point.

 

[Pertinax]

That`s the irony of the whole discussion - from what I know, Cincinnatti DOESN`T have space to hold more then one pair of sumatran rhino, and even this housing is rather small. The thought of a larger sumatran rhino program in the US is ridiculous because the only zoo that has the expertise to breed them has no space for more then one pair, and if a breeding program is to work, the best way to ensure it is to house multiple animals so that pairs can be established that are actually compartible.

It is indeed unfortunate that Cincinnati's successes are compromised by a severe lack of space to hold more animals. If this was an Aspinall park(for example) they'd simply quickly make something more available for housing- but Cincinnati being an urban zoo, space must be at a premium. They could perhaps still create additional housing but it would be pointless unless they could guarantee they are going to get any more animals.

The other possibility might be for them(Cin) to take control of say, just one more pair, if they became available, and then to work in conjunction with another US zoo- e.g. Los Angeles? to breed from the two pairs. However, immediately you then have all the extra potential risks/stresses/ inconvenience of movements of the animals between two different zoos again.

What I don't quite understand is the title of the initial news report that started this thread 'that the authorities in Way Kambas are refusing to send several rhinos to Cincinnati'. The key word is 'several'- as they haven't got 'several' rhinos they could send, and I'd think it unlikely they would have anytime, even if others are caught in the future, or indeed that Cincinnati would request 'several' given their housing limitations among other things. What they do want really though is a single unrelated male to breed with Suci.

 

[Pertinax]

I didn't realise that Port Lympne was actually part of the programme, I always thought that they arrived in Kent because John Aspinall wanted them.

He wanted them very much and lobbied the government of the time to help him get them. They were no doubt included as part of the 'programme' but given their success with breeding Black Rhino ,they were also possibly one of the foremost choices to receive them, as it was no doubt assumed they would be equally successfull with this species too. No-one realised then how much more complex/difficult they were to breed, and PL was handicapped by never having a suitable female either- so it was never a real test as to whether they could have bred from them or not.