It's possible, even probable(?) that there were no Indian rhinos within Australia at the time to make a size comparison with. Without that it would be easier to make the mistake in identification,given they probably were unaware about the characteristic mosaic skin pattern and the fold going over the shoulder.
Javan Rhino news
- Thread starter dean
- Start date
It's possible, even probable(?) that there were no Indian rhinos within Australia at the time to make a size comparison with. Without that it would be easier to make the mistake in identification,given they probably were unaware about the characteristic mosaic skin pattern and the fold going over the shoulder.
USZOOfan42
Well-Known Member
This thread is like a roller coaster of emotions 
Yeah that's a really good point. With early days too if seeing a Javan rhino, maybe might be mistaken for a young Indian rhino still very much growing (though Mr Rhini was there for about 21 years) one did not know the finer details of their appearance contrasts, and like you said, knowing how much larger and more robust in build Indian rhinos are by comparison. At first had thought too maybe Javan rhinos had been considered a subspecies of Indian rhinos at the time, but seems they already clearly had their (I remember the last part of their scientific name is sondaica right) full species acknowledgement in the 19th century.
This thread is like a roller coaster of emotions
True. Trying not to have blind hatred for poachers when they probably come from seriously impoverished lives and its sheer desperation for money to get by....but just can't shake the rage at them for killing these beautiful animals that are so close to extinction as it is. It's very much also what can be done to help alleviate the suffering of impoverishment of many millions (sadder still more like billions probably more realistically accurate) of people, some who are driven to acts like poaching to supply the illegal market trade; if was a way to increase different opportunities for them making income in non destructive and harmful work, that they were ok with, or even better - were happy with doing. On top of trying to save these rhinos from extinction, and trying to combat the out dated beliefs held up in the illegal market trade of rhino horn that it has potent properties for various ailments/afflictions.
The national parks rangers are such incredible legends though, their hard work with protecting them as much as they are able to.
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Bringing one in to a protected environment ('captivity' is a loaded expression I think) at this stage was a huge step forward. Now the news of his death is a massive disappointment. Terrible bad luck it was an aged animal they caught, though if they follow/track them by any photo evidence it might have allowed some insight into his real age? But it does show that a successful capture can be made.This thread is like a roller coaster of emotions
I actually wrote a letter when I was a boy (snail mail no emails back then) in 1974 to the then Director ( Arne Dyhrberg) of the Copenhagen zoo asking about Sumatran rhino they had, He replied that he had actually caught it himself on Sumatra and he sent me a colour zoo guide with the photo of this female, I still have the letter and photo today!
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I have seen a photo of one of those animals in London zoo the horn on the male was incredible the largest I had seen in any photo
I actually wrote a letter when I was a boy (snail mail no emails back then) in 1974 to the then Director ( Arne Dyhrberg) of the Copenhagen zoo asking about Sumatran rhino they had, He replied that he had actually caught it himself on Sumatra and he sent me a colour zoo zoo guide with the photo of this female, I still have the letter and photo today!
Oh that's so cool you wrote to him then and he wrote back to you and shared that, thanks for sharing about, what a cool exchange. With less documentary exposure and photo books (and the internet at our fingertips today) it's also really cool that back then as a young lad in the early '70s too that you knew about and loved Sumatran rhinos.
I did actually hunt for any photos/pics in books of them back then it was easier to go find a gold nugget
The Sumatran rhino with an enormous horn was "Jackson"; his mounted skin is on display in the Bristol Museum.
Very impressive indeed!
So the bottom line I am seeing... the male who was recently translocated was an old rhino [close to the end of life expectancy] who already had problems with health, and even if he wasn't translocated he wouldn't have lived for much longer in the wild. Correct?
Zz123
Well-Known Member
I did some more digging and found that Musofa had been identified as rhino number 56 back in 2013. Then in 2020 there was another news report about him. But the information in that article was a bit confusing, because it said he was “around 7 years old” in 2020.
If that were true, it would mean he was 0–1 years old in 2013, which doesn’t make sense, because at that age he wouldn’t have had any clear identifying features yet.
So I tried breaking it down into two possibilities:
1) If he was 7 years old in 2020 → then in 2025 he would be 12.
2) If he was 7 years old in 2013 → then in 2025 he would be 19.
But no matter which way you calculate it, once he died it turned out he was actually 45 years old — which is off by 20–30 years from the previous estimates.
Honestly, I think the method used to estimate the age of wild Javan rhinos really needs to be completely overhauled.
source : Rhino Named Musofa Caught On Camera Wallowing In Ujung Kulon National Park
Rhino Named Musofa Caught On Camera Wallowing In Ujung Kulon National Park (29 Juni 2020, 20:38)
If that were true, it would mean he was 0–1 years old in 2013, which doesn’t make sense, because at that age he wouldn’t have had any clear identifying features yet.
So I tried breaking it down into two possibilities:
1) If he was 7 years old in 2020 → then in 2025 he would be 12.
2) If he was 7 years old in 2013 → then in 2025 he would be 19.
But no matter which way you calculate it, once he died it turned out he was actually 45 years old — which is off by 20–30 years from the previous estimates.
Honestly, I think the method used to estimate the age of wild Javan rhinos really needs to be completely overhauled.
source : Rhino Named Musofa Caught On Camera Wallowing In Ujung Kulon National Park
Rhino Named Musofa Caught On Camera Wallowing In Ujung Kulon National Park (29 Juni 2020, 20:38)
I'm not one to question things usually - but is it possible Mufosa was not 45 years of age as has been claimed and 'old age' has been thrown in as an excuse for his quick passing. The officials seem quite set on this program, so they'd certainly want to avoid any 'bad media' on the program following his passing, so to speak.
Other than that, I'm not truly sure how they could have gotten his age off by over thirty years...
What I question is how they could observe the age of his rhino so specifically even working with his dead body …. Is there a way of doing it I don’t know of?
I actually wrote a letter when I was a boy (snail mail no emails back then) in 1974 to the then Director ( Arne Dyhrberg) of the Copenhagen zoo asking about Sumatran rhino they had, He replied that he had actually caught it himself on Sumatra and he sent me a colour zoo guide with the photo of this female, I still have the letter and photo today!
I badly wanted to see her, she was called 'Subur' but never got the opportunity. She was one of two (both female) captured around the same time and sent to Europe. Basel had the second one called 'Betina' which lived there two years(1959-61) There are fuller/more details of their history in older Zoochat threads(type in 'Betina Sumatran rhino Basel ' for example). Finally got to see them at Port Lympne many years later.
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I think Torgamba at Port Lympne could lay claim to having ones of similar size. Seems its the bulls that developed the greater horn growth both in the wild and in captivity. I remember both the Port Lympne females had tiny ones.
Teeth? Bones?
That is quite correct, in fact the name Subur meant the "futile one". It was planned to import a group of them at the time!