jbnbsn99's Texas Zoos

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Can you ask re their Galapagos giant tortoises breeding programme (they hold pure and breeding microphyes? What subspecies and what breeding plans exist et cetera? :D

I will see what I can find out. I've had bad luck in talking with keepers at most of the zoos I've visited, but maybe this one will be different.
 
Looks like I will have to postpone the Brownsville trip a few weeks. I though I had an extra day off next week, but it turns out it was this week. Not enough time to make all the plans now.
 
Fossil Rim

Just like the infection you forgot to get antibiotics for, I have returned from yet another trip to visit Texas' animal attractions. Today, I made the short trip down to Fossil Rim in Glen Rose. Fossil Rim is not a zoo, but rather a drive through safari park. That said, it has the distinction of being accredited by the AZA, one of only a handful of drive through parks that have this distinction (I think only The Wilds in Ohio is similar). Being a drive through park, the main feature is hoofstock, which suite me just fine being a hoofstock lover.

There is no way to do a "walk-through" of Fossil Rim, but I will hit some of the highlights.

The Good

Herds
Large herds. When I first entered there was a herd of about 100 Wildebeests all migrating to another area to graze in. Evidently this is a prolific breeding herd with dozens born every year. They have the single largest herd of Addax listed on the ISIS website (I'm sure there are probably larger herd in private hands). There are so many Addax that they have separated into 3 or 4 smaller herds within the same large (very large) paddock. Animals you expect to see in herds are in them, Sable Antelope, Gemsbok, Scimiter-Horned oryx, Grant's Zebra. etc. etc.

Space.
Fossil Rim has about 1800 acres of land. Their smallest paddock is larger than the San Diego Wild Animal Park's largest. Several of the paddocks are several hundred acres in size.

Beauty.
This is one of the most beautiful landscapes in Texas. I know all of you non-Texans (and I think that is everyone but 3 or 4 of us on the forum) think of Texas as a flat grass land with oil wells and cattle. Ok, there are oil wells and cattle nearby (and a nuclear plant), but it is anything but flat. Huge tree topped plateaus and mesas all remnants of the ancient sea that once covered the are in the Cretaceous Period (hence the "Fossil"). You actually have to be careful driving because some of the road are extremely steep. Some of the area really do look like something out of an African safari, and all with no landscaping attention.

Conservation.
Fossil Rim does more for conservation than most zoos. Take for instance Cheetahs. I believe about 1/4 of all Cheetahs in the US came from Fossil Rim. They are successful breeders of both Southern Black and Southern White Rhinos as well as many endangered antelope. (Addax, Arabian Oryx Scimitar-Horned Oryx, etc).

Diversity.
This one is a mixed bad, because there is a great diversity of species, but those are in unequal numbers. There are literally hundreds of Fallow Deer all along the route which make for a monotonous tour. But if you're lucky you can catch a glimpse of some of the lesser seen animals here. Today I saw only single examples of Bontebok, Blesbok (no other zoo in the US has both), Nyala, Sika Deer, and Bongo. Also Fossil Rim in the only place in the US where you can see all 3 species of Zebra (Grant's, Hartmann's Mountain, and Grevy's).

The Bad

Species Mixing
There is no rhyme of reason to how species are mixed. Blackbuck and Fallow Deer are everywhere. There is no consistency in the theming of the park. I just wish they could have different areas like North Africa (Addax, Aoudad, and Scimitar-Horned Oryx), South Africa (Sable, Gemsbok, White Rhino, Mountain Zebra etc.), but alas it is just a mishmash of everybody in one great big pile. Trying to get what would be a perfect replication of a photo of giraffes and zebras that looks like it had been taken in Kenya is marred by the presence of Red Deer. One area has Greater Kudu, Nyala, and Bongo in it. I know that they are all from Africa, but all can interbreed, and this is something I'm sure they don't want.

Lackadaisical (sub)species management
While they are great in some subspecies management like Bontebok and Blesbok, Southern Black and White Rhinos, others are done haphazardly. In particular the Giraffes. All of the cows seemed to be Reticulated (with one exception I think), but the bull is clearly a purebred Rothschild. I've stated before on here how much I despise the mixing of Giraffe species (and yes they are now considered full species), particularly when both Rothschild and Reticulated Giraffes are now considered endangered.

The Indifferent

Feeding the animals.
I know this is the biggest draw for guests, but I can see some real problems for both the animals and guests. I know which animals not to feed (ostriches and zebras particularly), but I bet your average visitor doesn't know this. I have nothing against Ostriches or Zebras, but I just know their aggressive nature (an ostrich ripped the food out of my car today and took it all for herself - the jerk!). I don't want to see anyone getting bitten by some overly aggressive animal (say a zebra or a Sable Antelope). Conversely I don't want to see any of the animals hurt by the proximity to stupid humans.

Intensive Management Area
I know this is a great thing. They focus on critically endangered animals here like their Black Rhinos, Red Wolves, Maned Wolves, Mexican Gray Wolves, Cheetahs, and Grevy's Zebra. My problem is that you can't see any of these animals without special guidance. I was perfectly willing today to pay the 50 bucks to visit this area and get a guided tour, but those evidently have to be scheduled 2 days in advance. I have yet to see any of these animals (except the Cheetahs who have a few areas along the main route for what I believe are retired breeders) in any of my trips to Fossil Rim.

Conclusion
Fossil Rim really is great, but with some flaws. Fix the problem of animals being together from different continents and make access to the intensive management site easier and this would be the premier wildlife park in the US.

On a side note, you can actually spend a full day in Glen Rose which has only a population of about 2,100 people. Nearby is the famous Dinosaur Valley State Park where the first dinosaur footprints were discovered. Many are still there. I went today and was standing just a foot or so from the footprint of an Acrocanthosaurus that was just as fresh as it had been 125 million years ago. They also have the dramatic scene of an Acrocanthosaurus chasing down a Palauxysaurus all told in the footprints. It is the single most famous dinosaur footprint site in the world. :) While your are there there is a kitschy Dinosaur World with life-sized replicas of dinosaurs. And yes, unfortunately, there is the Creation Evidence Museum, which I have yet to go into. That is probably best for the safety of those who run the "museum." It almost a - no strike that - it is a slap in the face to the real science up the road at the state park. :mad:
 
Fossil Rim is also part of a conservation center coalition that includes Wilds, CRC, SWAP and Whte Oak.

Wilds also mixes species "weirdly" including Pere Davids Deer, American Bison and Bactrian Camel in one area and P Horses, Takin and Giraffes in another. Also Onager with Indian Rhino. As long as it works, I don't have a problem.
 
P Horse, Takin, and Giraffe?!?! Seriously? Sound like a much more diverse collection than Fossil Rim with some of those species.
 
Nice review, as always. Keep them comin'!:) You mention "Fossil Rim" and "The Wilds", but I think that there might be a few more drive-through safari parks still AZA-accredited in North America. Two off of the top of my head:

There is a drive-thru animal park in Winston, Oregon, called "Wildlife Safari", and it is AZA-accredited. They've produced over 160 cheetahs there:

Wildlife Safari - Winston Oregon

Lion Country Safari in Florida is also AZA-accredited:

Lion Country Safari - Florida's Only Drive Through Safari Adventure!
 
Wildlife Safari and Lion Country Safari are much more similar to Fossil Rim than The Wilds. Actually, The Wilds is a JOKE compared to Fossil Rim!!
 
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I have some friends (down in Texas) who have been to that Creation Evidences Museum, and they loved it! I say "Live and let live", "To each his own"! I never can figure out why some folks (from EITHER side of a controversy) get "mad" just because there are other people who believe differently!

The "Creation Evidences Museum" is not a controversy--it is a joke. It and the muddle-headed thinking that is behind it and its ilk don't make me "mad," just sad, pessimistic and worried about the future of our society.
 
Nice review, as always. Keep them comin'!:) You mention "Fossil Rim" and "The Wilds", but I think that there might be a few more drive-through safari parks still AZA-accredited in North America. Two off of the top of my head:

There is a drive-thru animal park in Winston, Oregon, called "Wildlife Safari", and it is AZA-accredited. They've produced over 160 cheetahs there:

Wildlife Safari - Winston Oregon

Lion Country Safari in Florida is also AZA-accredited:

Lion Country Safari - Florida's Only Drive Through Safari Adventure!

I think I was confusing it with the wildlife center coalition. Thanks.
 
I repeat: Live & Let Live!! To each his own. If you don't like this museum, don't go. Just as we'd say to the zoo-haters -- if you don't like them, just don't go!

I always love it when people say this, because in doing so you are not "live and let living"!
 
In my opinion the Creation Evidences Museum is a total joke, beyond any shadow of a doubt. However, in a free and democratic society it is vitally important to have the freedom to speak ones beliefs, as long as they are not derogatory or infringe upon the inalienable rights of all citizens. The fossil record speaks volumes as to the existence of dinosaurs, the retreating icebergs are a real-life occurrence (and connected to global warming) but the Bible is a book with fanciful stories that cannot be proven. If one chooses to believe about a man coming alive again after being nailed upon a cross, or that a massive Ark was built by Noah, or such tall tales, then that is their choice. The opening of a museum that has "creation" and "evidence" in the title is extremely amusing to a science-based individual such as myself. Each to their own beliefs, but having a musem provide laughable evidence to a bunch of ancient stories is hilarious.:)

Also, I'm not sure that this is the appropriate thread for such a conversation, or whether a bunch of ZooChatters will gain anything from such a debate. We'd be better off discussing whether or not the Fort Worth Zoo has even a single world-class exhibit, instead of a bunch of ape grottoes and average enclosures.:p
 
I agree with snowleopard, let end this discussion on this thread. And yes does Fort Worth have an outstanding exhibit...?
 
I've deleted all of my posts on this Creation Museum topic. I clearly can't argue with those whose whole argument is "I'm right and you're wrong". I would close by saying I disagree whenever our beloved zoos include "politics" of any kind -- be it evolution, creationism, global warming, population control, etc. I'd so much rather see zoos focusing on learning about animals, saving them from extinction, and providing visitors a fun, entertaining, and educational experience. The problem with including any of these political points is that you risk offending about half of your potential visitors.

I hope no one has been offended by anything I've said. I've meant no offense. JBNBSN99, you continue to have a fascinating thread here!
 
I've deleted all of my posts on this Creation Museum topic. I clearly can't argue with those whose whole argument is "I'm right and you're wrong". I would close by saying I disagree whenever our beloved zoos include "politics" of any kind -- be it evolution, creationism, global warming, population control, etc. I'd so much rather see zoos focusing on learning about animals, saving them from extinction, and providing visitors a fun, entertaining, and educational experience. The problem with including any of these political points is that you risk offending about half of your potential visitors.

I hope no one has been offended by anything I've said. I've meant no offense. JBNBSN99, you continue to have a fascinating thread here!

I agree the Texas zoo thread has been informative and entertaining.

But I cannot let the last word in this debate be that evolution--the basic conceptual underpinning of biological science--is relegated to the status of being merely a political opinion. This is pure ignorance. Evolution (empirical science) is not equivalent to "Creationism" (a faith-based belief system). Full stop. Period. Amen:D
 
Evolution is a fact, and the fossil record provides an overwhelming amount of evidence. Creationism is fiction, from a series of stories, and fiction trumps fact only if one chooses to believe in something that can never be proven to exist.
 
I've deleted all of my posts on this Creation Museum topic. I clearly can't argue with those whose whole argument is "I'm right and you're wrong". I would close by saying I disagree whenever our beloved zoos include "politics" of any kind -- be it evolution, creationism, global warming, population control, etc. I'd so much rather see zoos focusing on learning about animals, saving them from extinction, and providing visitors a fun, entertaining, and educational experience. The problem with including any of these political points is that you risk offending about half of your potential visitors.

I hope no one has been offended by anything I've said. I've meant no offense. JBNBSN99, you continue to have a fascinating thread here!

To keep things civil, I will also try and delete my posts. It is only fair.
 
Looks like i have two days off next week. So I am looking to travel to a Texas zoo. I am looking at Houston or maybe San Antonio (only if Africa Live is fully open). Any suggestions?
 
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