South Lakes Wild Animal Park Kadi, Sumatran tiger cub

TeaLovingDave said:
The spectacled bear enclosure consists of multiple predators - the bears - sharing an enclosure with Brazilian Tapirs, Capybaras, Asian Shortclawed Otters and Brown Capuchin Monkeys. There have been a lot of individuals disappearing from the latter collection of species - which at one point also included ringtailed coati, spider monkeys and agouti. On the rare occasions when the zoo has acknowledged any deaths, it has claimed the cause was natural causes. It is generally held that this is true, insofar as much as it is natural causes for a prey species to be eaten by a predator.

This is indeed true. However zoos also - generally speaking - do not issue public statements claiming an animal killed in a conflict has been sent to "another collection". If the rumours are true, it is this which is the issue, rather than the failed re-integration. Had they said nothing, this would have been entirely within usual practice.
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At the risk of sounding like a broken record; deaths in mixed species exhibits happen in the worlds best zoos such as the macaque/bear exhibit at leipzig or the field exhibits at SDWAP. Chick predation occurs in many mixed species aviaries in many zoos, how is the situation at South Lakes different that it warrants the backlash it gets from a few members here?

Regarding the tigress at South Lakes; correct me if I'm wrong but the zoo hasn't made any public statements about the fate of the animal. The "transferred to another collection" statements appear to have been made in private communication?
I can say with absolute confidence that many zoos are guilty of this practice.
 
Dicerorhinus said:
Regarding the tigress at South Lakes; correct me if I'm wrong but the zoo hasn't made any public statements about the fate of the animal. The "transferred to another collection" statements appear to have been made in private communication?
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A post by the zoo on Fb on 29th October 2012:

Kadi ,our young female Sumatran Tiger has swapped homes with Nina our female Amur Tiger and now is being introduced to her mother for the first time in her life.
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Then on 23rd November 2012:

This weekend we have a number of hastily organised international animal transfers to avoid worsening weather on the continent as one of our Quarantine vans has gone on a 2,300 mile journey. the moves are out and in as well as some other new additions to the parks family. Some very familiar and extremely well loved faces sadly have left us and taken up residence in other places and we have imported a number of birds and ................. well I think I will keep this a secret for a day or so...
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When asked on that post what animals had left, and where for, the zoo confirmed that Kadi had left, going on to say:

As with all moves of animals it is up to the receiving zoo or park to decide on the publicity or not regarding any arrivals . We follow that protocol and respect the code of practice. As with Zimba our second baby rhino who will be leaving in 2 weeks time, it will be up to the receiving zoo to inform the public of its arrival when it decides it is right to do so.
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TeaLovingDave said:
A post by the zoo on Fb on 29th October 2012:



Then on 23rd November 2012:



When asked on that post what animals had left, and where for, the zoo confirmed that Kadi had left, going on to say:
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Thank you, none of that was in the thread. I stand corrected, although you didn't quote the "confirmation" that the animal was transferred!

When I get a chance, I'll take a look at the studbook
 
Dicerorhinus said:
although you didn't quote the "confirmation" that the animal was transferred!
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Apologies - thought I had.

A change of plan with the Sumatran Tigers has meant that Kadi is not here anymore and this created the space for our new big cat arrival later this weekend. As I explained a few days ago... many issues regarding endangered species are out of our hands and we are in this for the benefit of the species and not for ourselves.
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Kadi - what is the truth?

Hi everyone,
Many thanks for your replies and comments.
I am coming to the conclusion that it seems Kadi is dead from the replies here. I totally understand that animals may not always survive when introduced back in with other like animals and upsetting as it is I can accept that.
What I cannot accept is the fact that the park has told me personally on two occasions that she had been moved to another zoo. They have obviously told everyone else the same line - even the Mirror reported this on 22nd March 2013:-

"Another successful birth in captivity was three years ago at the South Lakes Wild Animal Park in *Dalton-in-Furness in Cumbria when Alisha gave birth to cub Kadi. The young tiger has been moved elsewhere, but every day at 3.45pm at the park you can see Alisha and Padang being fed."

I have a number of issues with this:-
1. When Kadi was born SLWP shouted it from the rooftops and gained as much publicity as they could (fair enough I say). But since she has "gone missing" I cannot get any straight answers as to where she is. Surely me and all the other sponsors have a right - out of courtesy - to know what has happened to her? And to at least ask if we are all happy for the money we have sponsored to go to other tigers or another cause at the Park?
2. If she has not been transferred to any other zoo (which seems extremely unlikely given the responses here) then shouldn't someone in authority know where she is or what happened to her - given that she is a critically endangered species!!
3. If she has died at the Park, isn't there some official protocol to be followed as to the disposal of her body, again, given that her species is critically endangered?

Sorry to rant about this but I really find it unbelievable that this can happen. I am not a zoo employee or a specialist of any kind, just a member of the public who loves animals so I don't understand how this can happen.
 
lancashirelass said:
Hi everyone,

I have a number of issues with this:-
1. When Kadi was born SLWP shouted it from the rooftops and gained as much publicity as they could (fair enough I say). But since she has "gone missing" I cannot get any straight answers as to where she is. Surely me and all the other sponsors have a right - out of courtesy - to know what has happened to her? And to at least ask if we are all happy for the money we have sponsored to go to other tigers or another cause at the Park?
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My Grandma sponsored her for me, I am very disappointed. The sponsors should have a right to know these things. Covering it up is a bit pointless too - I don't think people who adopted her could just "forget" about her.
 
Taking into account that reintroductions have been successful in the past, were strict processes followed in order to give them the best possible chance? And are there any regulations around this?

In my opinion It seems a little bit too convenient that a deal was made for the introduction of a snow leopard the same time as Kadi was (potentially) riskily reintroduced. Especially when the cage the snow leopard was placed in would have been taken up by Kadi.
 
I am not defending SL Wild Animal Park policy and treatment of this case, I would concur that a human-imprinted Sumatran tiger would not make ideal material for a sound breeding program.

Further, zoo policy them the right to not communicate any deaths nor their circumstances to individual members of the public. Does one need to know (i wonder ... ???) being not a direct party in the institution or member one can hardly demand so ..., not for darn life.

However, I do agree it is less obvious to do so with adoptees having adopted the tiger under discussion. Even there a zoo may withhold this info and report the death and simply suggest to adopt another individual of the adoptee's choice or the same species.

As Dicerorhinus has pointed out there are a fair number of zoos out there that will not report deaths of individual animals on their collections, nor cases where accidental deaths or mishaps may have occurred. It happens more frequently then most posters on here would think / or like to think.

Having said that .. I am rather puzzled with frequently stumbling upon another SL Wild Animal Park thread continuing for so long on a single animal that has since died / disappeared. What would make it more of a general concern is when failures are institutional in nature and happen more frequently - this should show up in high turn-over in collection -. If and when serious animal health, welfare and husbandry issues exist the institution would not be able to run under EAZA accredition nor the UK Ministry of Agriculture review. I have yet to see evidence of that nature!

Now, the above does not suggest I may be running to SL Wild Animal Park any time soon, but I reserve the right to do so ...
 
Every zoo can decide which deaths they want to publish and which not. But the line is outright lying when asked directly, ESPECIALLY if the birth/arrival of the animal was heavily marketed. That`s the downside of publicity - people will become attached to the animal (which is exactly what a zoo wants because it opens the money flow), and then they WILL ask. And they have a right not to be lied at.

If the animal in question was a good candidate for a breeding program or not is not relevant to that - and handraised big cats usually breed andd raise their own young without a lot of problems, great apes are MUCH more problematic in that regard.
 
I think every zoo probably has the right to decide which deaths to disclose & which not. However if they are going to quite openly lie about it, they should make sure they dont get caught out! That's always a hazard with any lie!
Accidents can always happen with introductions, but some zoos are more open than others- white tiger valley at Colchester had a memorial plaque to the female stating ' killed by her mate' right up until he died a good 10 years later.
I will probably never visit s lakes due to location, but it amazes me why some criticise it regularly yet still keep returning there!
 
TeaLovingDave said:
Apologies - thought I had.
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Thanks for re-posting these quotes from the SLWAP Facebook page. It seems pretty clear that Kadi was introduced to her parents to free up space for the Snow Leopard - not all that surprising really, as this park always seems to be trying to cram in more animals despite an obvious lack of space. Didn't they have their Jaguars and Amur Tigers sharing an enclosure a while back with one species shut inside while the other had access to the outdoor area?

I think the way the zoo has deliberately deceived people about Kadi's fate is disgusting, particularly those who had sponsored her. This situation has been created by a web of lies, and I hope that people will now think twice before supporting Mr Gill's ventures. The conservation work he does in the field is great, but he needs to do a better job of looking after the animals in his "care", not to mention his staff!
 
Sand Cat said:
Didn't they have their Jaguars and Amur Tigers sharing an enclosure a while back with one species shut inside while the other had access to the outdoor area?
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Still do, I think.
 
zoogiraffe said:
Jaguars and Snow leopard share one enclosure and the 2 Tiger species share the other.
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Good grief its worse than I thought!!!

What on earth possesses the studbook holders and other collections to send animals here? I also don't understand how some of their daft ideas get approved - such as strange walk-through and mixed species exhibits. I remember talking to a small zoo owner some time ago about the precautions he had been forced to take to ensure that his own emu enclosure was secure... when he heard about the set-up for them at South Lakes he was stunned and less than impressed!
 
This really does seem to be exposing a fault in the present zoo licensing arrangements. I'm not making a particular anti-South Lakes point here, merely observing that individual inspectors are allowed an awful amount of leeway in terms of how they interpret their remit.

London, as we know, was told by Westminster Council that they needed to arrange for the separation of individual adult tigers. The inspector involved would be interesting to behold striding around South Lakes!
 
Thanks for all of the contributions to this thread. Just to let you all know that we still have not had any reply from South Lakes, despite asking the direct question......and specifically requesting an honest answer from them. I would imagine that the office staff are acting under instruction from Mr Gill and maybe its unfair to them to have to deal with my request... especially with the recent events at the Park.
I cannot make any judgement on the operations at the Park, and its contribution to the conservation effort and it certainly was not the intention at the start of the thread. The police investigation into the accident is ongoing and will no doubt highlight any issues/risks at the Park.
I am still looking for the answer to where Kadi is though, and really can't understand why its unreasonable to ask?
In the absence of an answer from the Park, can anybody think of a way to find out if Kadi is still alive??????
Please help if you can
 
zoogiraffe said:
Well all the animals kept there are part of there respective studbooks!
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That's what i suspected, so probably the studbook holders and zoo inspectorate should be called into question here, there seems to be very unsatisfactory regulation of this site.
 
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