South Lakes Wild Animal Park Kadi, Sumatran tiger cub

[lancashirelass]

A lesson to be learned?

There would have been no shame in reporting the death of Kadi, such as other zoo's have done in the past:

http://www.torontozoo.com/pdfs/Sumatran tiger death - f.pdf

This is all it would have taken to prevent the whole issue, and put closure to the event with a great deal more respect from the many sponsors who contributed......

Anyway, we'll see if we get an answer from somewhere??

 

[Sand Cat]

Thanks for all of the contributions to this thread. Just to let you all know that we still have not had any reply from South Lakes, despite asking the direct question......and specifically requesting an honest answer from them. I would imagine that the office staff are acting under instruction from Mr Gill and maybe its unfair to them to have to deal with my request... especially with the recent events at the Park.
I cannot make any judgement on the operations at the Park, and its contribution to the conservation effort and it certainly was not the intention at the start of the thread. The police investigation into the accident is ongoing and will no doubt highlight any issues/risks at the Park.
I am still looking for the answer to where Kadi is though, and really can't understand why its unreasonable to ask?
In the absence of an answer from the Park, can anybody think of a way to find out if Kadi is still alive??????
Please help if you can

Good luck with your quest - I hope you do find a definitive answer, although I suspect its unlikely to come from South Lakes. I posted a question on their Facebook page about Kadi a few days ago which was removed in due course! All the remaining comments on there are full of praise for the park and some are even criticising Blackpool Zoo... it really makes me angry that such a false picture is being painted and that people are believing it all!

 

[camel leopard]

There seems to be a trend for south lakes slating other collections. But they cannot take any criticism!

 

[pipaluk]

Good luck with your quest - I hope you do find a definitive answer, although I suspect its unlikely to come from South Lakes. I posted a question on their Facebook page about Kadi a few days ago which was removed in due course! All the remaining comments on there are full of praise for the park and some are even criticising Blackpool Zoo... it really makes me angry that such a false picture is being painted and that people are believing it all!

After reading your post, i decided to look at their facebook page( i dont do facebook!) just to see what this poor excuse for a zoo were finding to criticise their nearest serious rival for! I couldn't find any of that, but came across a statement that the zoo had receiced a commendation from the government inspector following their recent assessment! Astonishing!!
Incidentally, most of the posts on facebook appear to have been written by the same employee or the owner himself! They clearly think that the zoo is perfect & dont want criticism to be seen! Criticise Blackpool? Get your own house in order first, but your zoo will never be as good as theirs!

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I would say: It seems almost a dead cert that the female cub Kadi has died at the zoo. Consequently, I do not understand that the zoo has not done so (to the point of sending out mixed messages to different people when enquiring .. that seems rather peculiar behavior). Safe to say I certainly do not condone any "misrepresentation" of the facts. I suppose a simple communique to report the accidental death of their tiger Kadi would have sufficed.

On the recent talk of standards at South Lakes, perhaps the Inspectorate is at different levels in zoos around the country. That is a really difficult one to judge ... correctly. Away from this EAZA has also strict accreditation policies and reviews zoos regularly. If animal welfare and husbandry are sub standard than I would really look for and expect more from EAZA than a MoA Inspectorate. As zoogiraffe said ... all animals (snow leopard, Sumatran tigers) are effectively on loan from the respective EEP's.

I do think that as long as the old Gill is in charge that perhaps management style, public communiques and animal husbandry procedures / exhibit design will not change much.

Somewhere I read .. that they - SLWAP - were intending to expand the site (which they are presently doing the groundwork for) specifically to open up space for animals already in the collection (and not just elephants et cetera). Anyone have any valid opinions hereon?

 

[bluetoffeezoo]

Jaguars and Snow leopard share one enclosure and the 2 Tiger species share the other.

snow leopard now shares with lions as the lion enclosure is remodelled for him and the lions are getting a new one, the amur, Nina, is back with the Jags

 

[TARZAN]

It certainly sounds like it!

I would think this is a case of each local authority having different interpretations of the rules and regulations regarding zoo licensing, this is also apparent with other forms of local authority licensing around the country depending on which local authority it is.

 

[TARZAN]

I first visited the South Lakes Wild Animal Park in the mid nineties when it first opened,it started with a modest collection living in enclosures all built by the owner Mr.Gills himself. Although I have never met Mr. Gills I had a certain amount of admiration for a local lad from the area, from an ordinary background, not a millionaire born with a silver spoon in his mouth, having the courage to start his own zoo and indeed building it himself. As time progressed it was not long before the"big stuff" started to arrive at the park, the tigers being one of the first, including Hari, who was successfully hand reared by the staff at Regents Park, the rhinos followed shortly afterwards, this put this modest, small zoo on the tourist map in the Lake District. Since then the park has added more and more species to the collection, and what an impressive list it is when you look at the recent guide book, only one problem, in my opinion the current acreage at this zoo is not big enough to house so many species, and the enclosures that have been built there in recent times continue to built in by Mr. Gills in his very much "home made" style. I know that this zoo has plan to extend into more land adjacent, if that is the case then I sincerely hope that they use this land to house the existing animals in more spacious enclosures, and no more of this jaguar sharing with leopards etc, also considering how long this zoo has now been open and the healthy visitor numbers it attracts I would like to see the animal housing being built of a better standard and quality. As for Kadi, on a personal note, I recall watching her in September 2011 when she was in the outside enclosure which she shared with the lions at the time, she was playing with a peacock feather which had landed in the enclosure, a great pleasure it was to watch this,a delightful young animal. I sympathise greatly with Lancashirelass who has not been told the truth about the whereabouts of Kadi, and to young Jordon, whose grandmother sponsored Kadi for him as a present, something which I would have had done for me at this age, despicable is my opinion of this, thank you.

 

[Pertinax]

London, as we know, was told by Westminster Council that they needed to arrange for the separation of individual adult tigers. The inspector involved would be interesting to behold striding around South Lakes!

There do seem to be large discrepancies at work here. London have to provide an outdoor enclosure for each Tiger, while South Lakes don't seem to have to give all their cats daily access to outside enclosures at all.

Many years go a zoo I know was asked by Inspectors to provide concrete apron strips around the perimeter of its tiger enclosures, to prevent the cats pacing in mud-they complied, but its not something I have seen at many other zoos since.

 

[Sand Cat]

After reading your post, i decided to look at their facebook page( i dont do facebook!) just to see what this poor excuse for a zoo were finding to criticise their nearest serious rival for! I couldn't find any of that, but came across a statement that the zoo had receiced a commendation from the government inspector following their recent assessment! Astonishing!!
Incidentally, most of the posts on facebook appear to have been written by the same employee or the owner himself! They clearly think that the zoo is perfect & dont want criticism to be seen! Criticise Blackpool? Get your own house in order first, but your zoo will never be as good as theirs!

To be fair, it was a couple of 'fans' of South Lakes who criticised Blackpool. I'm very fond of Blackpool Zoo - its not perfect (is any zoo?) - but the place is making great efforts to improve the facilities for its existing species as well as offering visitors more to see and do. What else can we ask for really?

I know David Gill had a massive rant on Facebook recently about ZSL wasting money on their extravagent tiger enclosure, which he said they should donate to conservation projects in the field. I do agree that the amount they spent was excessive but maybe he should spend a bit more money on his own zoo to get it up to scratch!

 

[zoogiraffe]

snow leopard now shares with lions as the lion enclosure is remodelled for him and the lions are getting a new one, the amur, Nina, is back with the Jags

So regardless its still a very poor arrangement for all the animals involved!

 

[pipaluk]

So regardless its still a very poor arrangement for all the animals involved!

Absolutely! The practice of sharing enclosures like this ended in most zoos decades ago! Only recent example i can think of is the clouded leopard/pumas at RSCC & that was hammered for it on here! Only other one i've come across in last few years is the hyena at Colchester.

 

[zoogiraffe]

Absolutely! The practice of sharing enclosures like this ended in most zoos decades ago! Only recent example i can think of is the clouded leopard/pumas at RSCC & that was hammered for it on here! Only other one i've come across in last few years is the hyena at Colchester.

The RSCC situation wasn't ideal,but it worked on the grounds because of the Pumas the public saw something in the enclosure,while the Clouded Leopard slept in his box during the day,I can say that he was very active in the enclosure at night.As for the Hyena at Colchester it was one very old Spotted and a young pair of Striped,in fact if it hadn't been for the fact that another pair of Spotteds came available,because another UK collection decided not to go into the species,then Colchester would still have Striped and this country would have no Spotted!

 

[pipaluk]

The RSCC situation wasn't ideal,but it worked on the grounds because of the Pumas the public saw something in the enclosure,while the Clouded Leopard slept in his box during the day,I can say that he was very active in the enclosure at night.As for the Hyena at Colchester it was one very old Spotted and a young pair of Striped,in fact if it hadn't been for the fact that another pair of Spotteds came available,because another UK collection decided not to go into the species,then Colchester would still have Striped and this country would have no Spotted!

I wasn't criticising either of those collections, just thought i'd mention them before someone else did after i'd slated SLakes for a similar but far less justifiable practice. I don't see still why the snow leopard was sent there by the studbook holder when there wasn't even an enclosure for it!

 

[zoogiraffe]

I wasn't criticising either of those collections, just thought i'd mention them before someone else did after i'd slated SLakes for a similar but far less justifiable practice. I don't see still why the snow leopard was sent there by the studbook holder when there wasn't even an enclosure for it!

I believe they hoped they would turn it down because they didn't have an enclosure ready for it!

 

[Brum]

I believe they hoped they would turn it down because they didn't have an enclosure ready for it!

Is the studbook holder completely unaware of Mr Gill and his cram everything in technique? Maybe they should start perusing ZooChat a bit more...

 

[Pertinax]

I do often wonder if Studbook holders are aware of the conditons under which some of the animals they are responsible for moving around, will be kept under. Do they even care? Presumably if the zoo is a 'participating institution' and shows proof it has some sort of enclosure available, that's good enough and no questions asked. I was always surprised they sent them the Spectacled Bears to live in that strange and crowded mixed exhibit, I suspect they needed somewhere for them to go, it didn't matter too much where.

 

[TARZAN]

I do often wonder if Studbook holders are aware of the conditons under which some of the animals they are responsible for moving around, will be kept under. Do they even care? Presumably if the zoo is a 'participating institution' and shows proof it has some sort of enclosure available, that's good enough and no questions asked. I was always surprised they sent them the Spectacled Bears to live in that strange and crowded mixed exhibit, I suspect they needed somewhere for them to go, it didn't matter too much where.

Would a zoo be within their rights to refuse to send their animals to another collection if they thought the zoo where they would be sent to was not up to standard for whatever reason?, and if they did refuse would there be repercussions for them in doing this as they may then be deemed to be uncooperative?

 

[BongoHardwood]

Would a zoo be within their rights to refuse to send their animals to another collection if they thought the zoo where they would be sent to was not up to standard for whatever reason?, and if they did refuse would there be repercussions for them in doing this as they may then be deemed to be uncooperative?

We had a presentation on breeding and breeding programmes by Colchester zoo in a lecture and were told that a collection can refuse to move their animals if they deem the receiving collection's enclosure to be unsuitable or think an animal's needs would not be met.

 

[TARZAN]

We had a presentation on breeding and breeding programmes by Colchester zoo in a lecture and were told that a collection can refuse to move their animals if they deem the receiving collection's enclosure to be unsuitable or think an animal's needs would not be met.

Thanks, so the zoo itself can make the decision not to send the animals to another collection if they think for whatever reason it is not up to standard, and the stud book keeper would then have to respect the zoo's decision and the animals would not be sent.